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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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 Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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Just wanted to put some numbers out for who ever is interested.
I flew Scott Schmidt's RV-10 out to OSH from BTF
My route was exactly 2133nm there and back (stopped at Tim O)
My fuel cost was exactly 803 dollars
My Fuel quantity was exactly 172.19 giving average fuel cost of 4.66
My flight time was around 13.5 hours there and back
Running LOP from BTF to OSH first half 12500 and second half ROP at 2000
Running LOP from OSH to BTF first half at 12500 and second half 10500
Only stopped once on the way home at the half way point (KPIR)
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RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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Believe it or not, at that 12-14mpg (statute rough number) you'll find
that you can sometimes do even better than that, getting up near
18mpg. It's amazing how efficient you can be. If you want to feel
even better, use the road miles, but flight gallons....because you
cover an "effective distance" when going by air that may save 25% of
the miles or more. It makes the rv-10 compare well with a car or
truck for some trips. I'm going on one soon where the car time is 7
hours but rv10 time is 1.75. Turns into a no brainer on which way I
can do it the easiest.
Tim
On Jul 31, 2010, at 3:37 PM, "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Just wanted to put some numbers out for who ever is interested.
I flew Scott Schmidt's RV-10 out to OSH from BTF
My route was exactly 2133nm there and back (stopped at Tim O)
My fuel cost was exactly 803 dollars
My Fuel quantity was exactly 172.19 giving average fuel cost of 4.66
My flight time was around 13.5 hours there and back
Running LOP from BTF to OSH first half 12500 and second half ROP at
2000
Running LOP from OSH to BTF first half at 12500 and second half 10500
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306966#306966
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:28 pm Post subject: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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Yep, they say air miles are usually 15% shorter, but some of the time it's a LOT shorter. Here's a shot of my basic vfr panel on the way to Osh a week ago Friday. I know, it doesn't have TAS, never could get the oat to work... will send to Rob at AFS this winter. All that being said, at 11,500', wot, 1,990 rpm, 181 knots, with a fuel burn of 9.1 gph aint bad.
Tim, Bob, Bob, Bill, Gary, Neal, Deems, Scott (I mean John), Bryan, Geoff...and a few more... it was great meeting some of you for the first time, and seeing the rest of you again. Got back yesterday after a visit to Kim's relatives in Janesville, WI
Don McDonald
--- On Sat, 7/31/10, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: KOSH flight fuel expense
To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Saturday, July 31, 2010, 1:55 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Believe it or not, at that 12-14mpg (statute rough number) you'll find that you can sometimes do even better than that, getting up near 18mpg. It's amazing how efficient you can be. If you want to feel even better, use the road miles, but flight gallons....because you cover an "effective distance" when going by air that may save 25% of the miles or more. It makes the rv-10 compare well with a car or truck for some trips. I'm going on one soon where the car time is 7 hours but rv10 time is 1.75. Turns into a no brainer on which way I can do it the easiest.
Tim
On Jul 31, 2010, at 3:37 PM, "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com (sean(at)braunandco.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com (sean(at)braunandco.com)>
Just wanted to put some numbers out for who ever is interested.
I flew Scott Schmidt's RV-10 out to OSH from BTF
My route was exactly 2133nm there and back (stopped at Tim O)
My fuel cost was exactly 803 dollars
My Fuel quantity was exactly 172.19 giving average fuel cost of 4.66
My flight time was around 13.5 hours there and back
Running LOP from BTF to OSH first half 12500 and second half ROP at 2000
Running LOP from OSH to BTF first half at 12500 and second half 10500
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306966#306966
t;
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[quote][b]
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_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636 |
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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Ok, so I forgot to attach the pic....
Yep, they say air miles are usually 15% shorter, but some of the time it's a LOT shorter. Here's a shot of my basic vfr panel on the way to Osh a week ago Friday. I know, it doesn't have TAS, never could get the oat to work... will send to Rob at AFS this winter. All that being said, at 11,500', wot, 1,990 rpm, 181 knots, with a fuel burn of 9.1 gph aint bad.
Tim, Bob, Bob, Bill, Gary, Neal, Deems, Scott (I mean John), Bryan, Geoff...and a few more... it was great meeting some of you for the first time, and seeing the rest of you again. Got back yesterday after a visit to Kim's relatives in Janesville, WI
Don McDonald
--- On Sat, 7/31/10, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: KOSH flight fuel expense
To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Saturday, July 31, 2010, 1:55 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Believe it or not, at that 12-14mpg (statute rough number) you'll find that you can sometimes do even better than that, getting up near 18mpg. It's amazing how efficient you can be. If you want to feel even better, use the road miles, but flight gallons....because you cover an "effective distance" when going by air that may save 25% of the miles or more. It makes the rv-10 compare well with a car or truck for some trips. I'm going on one soon where the car time is 7 hours but rv10 time is 1.75. Turns into a no brainer on which way I can do it the easiest.
Tim
On Jul 31, 2010, at 3:37 PM, "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com (sean(at)braunandco.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com (sean(at)braunandco.com)>
Just wanted to put some numbers out for who ever is interested.
I flew Scott Schmidt's RV-10 out to OSH from BTF
My route was exactly 2133nm there and back (stopped at Tim O)
My fuel cost was exactly 803 dollars
My Fuel quantity was exactly 172.19 giving average fuel cost of 4.66
My flight time was around 13.5 hours there and back
Running LOP from BTF to OSH first half 12500 and second half ROP at 2000
Running LOP from OSH to BTF first half at 12500 and second half 10500
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306966#306966
t;
|
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Don A. McDonald
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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I'm slightly confused. It appears your indicated airspeed on the mechanical gauge is in knots, around 125, with the EFIS in mph at around 144. Not sure why you would want to not match units. That would translate to around 148kt TAS at std temp (-8C). So you were getting around a 33kt tailwind? Also not sure why you would run at 52% power(assuming LOP) unless you had strong tailwind. With that kind of tailwind, could have been over 200kts GS. 
But of course that is the beauty of home built...we can all do it our way, no matter what the peanut gallery thinks, much less the big bad feds against aviation.
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Ok, so I forgot to attach the pic....
Yep, they say air miles are usually 15% shorter, but some of the time it's a LOT shorter. Here's a shot of my basic vfr panel on the way to Osh a week ago Friday. I know, it doesn't have TAS, never could get the oat to work... will send to Rob at AFS this winter. All that being said, at 11,500', wot, 1,990 rpm, 181 knots, with a fuel burn of 9.1 gph aint bad.
Tim, Bob, Bob, Bill, Gary, Neal, Deems, Scott (I mean John), Bryan, Geoff...and a few more... it was great meeting some of you for the first time, and seeing the rest of you again. Got back yesterday after a visit to Kim's relatives in Janesville, WI
Don McDonald
[b]
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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Kelly, you sure have me confused. The Efis and the round dial ASI show the exact same numbers.... the inside ring shows 145 mph (126kt).... and you think it was 17 degrees F at 11,500.. if it were we certainly would have been using the heater... it was more like 70 degrees F. These pics were shot about 3pm. I set my 496 using knots because quite a few guys were using knots back in Calif when we would be flying to lunch etc., and I did all my stall tests and cross training in mph (per Van).
Check the weather on that day you will find that the winds were mostly quartering tail at about 15kts. Where the heck did you arrive at a TAS of 148kts? Ground speed was 181kts or 208mph. I have found that I lose very little speed when reducing rpm, and my fuel burn and temperatures are excellent. I suspect most 10's can't do this because they don't have the same combination (high hp and 3 blade MT). I run this setting, around 2,000 rpm, no matter what the wind is.
BTW, on the way home from Osh I was catching 3 other rv's in front of me with a headwind. Sure, I could run slightly faster, but then the fuel burn goes to between 10.5 and 11.5. 10% to 20% more fuel burn for 1% to 3% more speed.
Sounds like a no brainer to me.
Don
--- On Sat, 7/31/10, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: KOSH flight fuel expense
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, July 31, 2010, 3:13 PM
I'm slightly confused. It appears your indicated airspeed on the mechanical gauge is in knots, around 125, with the EFIS in mph at around 144. Not sure why you would want to not match units. That would translate to around 148kt TAS at std temp (-8C). So you were getting around a 33kt tailwind? Also not sure why you would run at 52% power(assuming LOP) unless you had strong tailwind. With that kind of tailwind, could have been over 200kts GS.
But of course that is the beauty of home built...we can all do it our way, no matter what the peanut gallery thinks, much less the big bad feds against aviation.
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Ok, so I forgot to attach the pic....
Yep, they say air miles are usually 15% shorter, but some of the time it's a LOT shorter. Here's a shot of my basic vfr panel on the way to Osh a week ago Friday. I know, it doesn't have TAS, never could get the oat to work... will send to Rob at AFS this winter. All that being said, at 11,500', wot, 1,990 rpm, 181 knots, with a fuel burn of 9.1 gph aint bad.
Tim, Bob, Bob, Bill, Gary, Neal, Deems, Scott (I mean John), Bryan, Geoff...and a few more... it was great meeting some of you for the first time, and seeing the rest of you again. Got back yesterday after a visit to Kim's relatives in Janesville, WI
Don McDonald
get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Don A. McDonald
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:46 pm Post subject: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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OK. Inner ring of the round dial isn't visible to me in the picture.
Nor was any OAT, so I assumed std conditions, a bad assumption on my
part. Obviously you were warmer, which puts your TAS up to 156kts.
Still means a 25kt tailwind, not 15.
IF you were LOP, which I don't know...the formula for a stock
compression IO-540 is FF*14.9=HP. That would be 9.1gph*14.9 or
135.6hp. Divided by 260hp gives approx 52% power. Not exactly a high
power setting. For a normally aspirated engine with 8.5 compression at
11,500 the only way you will get higher power is to turn more rpm and
burn more fuel. Granted you are getting great economy, but it isn't
efficiency of the engine or low rpm by themselves, it is the low power
setting that is getting you the economy. If you reduced further, to
around 40% power, you would approach max range figures, but at a
slower speed. You are already giving up 10-15kts for the sake of fuel
economy, as a -10 should be capable of between 165-170kts TAS, perhaps
as much as 175 at 75% power(Van's figures converted to kts). To do
that LOP you would have to be low enough make that much power,
probably in the 7500-8500 alt range running 2600-2650 rpm. Running
LOP to get 75% power you have to burn 13.1 gph. That is the physics.
Is the extra speed worth the extra gas?
Just one of the many decisions we have to make..speed vs fuel burn. I
just wanted to point out that your TAS was no where near 181kts on
that fuel burn. If you are running ROP the power figure would be even
lower. If your engine is higher than stock compression, the fuel/power
factor would change to a little higher number and your percent power
might be a percent or two more, nothing drastic.
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Don McDonald
<building_partner(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Kelly, you sure have me confused. The Efis and the round dial ASI show the exact same numbers.... the inside ring shows 145 mph (126kt).... and you think it was 17 degrees F at 11,500... if it were we certainly would have been using the heater... it was more like 70 degrees F. These pics were shot about 3pm. I set my 496 using knots because quite a few guys were using knots back in Calif when we would be flying to lunch etc., and I did all my stall tests and cross training in mph (per Van).
Check the weather on that day you will find that the winds were mostly quartering tail at about 15kts. Where the heck did you arrive at a TAS of 148kts? Ground speed was 181kts or 208mph. I have found that I lose very little speed when reducing rpm, and my fuel burn and temperatures are excellent. I suspect most 10's can't do this because they don't have the same combination (high hp and 3 blade MT). I run this setting, around 2,000 rpm, no matter what the wind is.
BTW, on the way home from Osh I was catching 3 other rv's in front of me with a headwind. Sure, I could run slightly faster, but then the fuel burn goes to between 10.5 and 11.5. 10% to 20% more fuel burn for 1% to 3% more speed.
Sounds like a no brainer to me.
Don
--- On Sat, 7/31/10, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: KOSH flight fuel expense
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, July 31, 2010, 3:13 PM
I'm slightly confused. It appears your indicated airspeed on the mechanical gauge is in knots, around 125, with the EFIS in mph at around 144. Not sure why you would want to not match units. That would translate to around 148kt TAS at std temp (-8C). So you were getting around a 33kt tailwind? Also not sure why you would run at 52% power(assuming LOP) unless you had strong tailwind. With that kind of tailwind, could have been over 200kts GS.
But of course that is the beauty of home built...we can all do it our way, no matter what the peanut gallery thinks, much less the big bad feds against aviation.
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Ok, so I forgot to attach the pic....
Yep, they say air miles are usually 15% shorter, but some of the time it's a LOT shorter. Here's a shot of my basic vfr panel on the way to Osh a week ago Friday. I know, it doesn't have TAS, never could get the oat to work... will send to Rob at AFS this winter. All that being said, at 11,500', wot, 1,990 rpm, 181 knots, with a fuel burn of 9.1 gph aint bad.
Tim, Bob, Bob, Bill, Gary, Neal, Deems, Scott (I mean John), Bryan, Geoff...and a few more... it was great meeting some of you for the first time, and seeing the rest of you again. Got back yesterday after a visit to Kim's relatives in Janesville, WI
Don McDonald
get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: KOSH flight fuel expense |
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After I thought I was so careful watching numbers I forgot Scott took a 30 to 45 minute flight at OSH using the total gallons and cost so the numbers are actually a little better than what I originally posted.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours |
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