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Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

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Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the transducer living in the recommended and what should be it’s ideal location in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 GPH swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turned on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFIS data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS fuel totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. The fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel pressure warnings especially on climb out.  

As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard flight and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs. wild swings of well over 1 GPH.  

   

Robin   

      [quote][b]

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philperry9(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

Robin,



I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?



I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the

Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.



Thanks,

Phil





On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:



[quote]  Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the

 transducer living in the recommended and what should be it’s ideal location

 in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 GPH

 swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turned

 on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel

 burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFIS

 data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS fuel

 totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. The

 fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel pressure

 warnings especially on climb out.



 As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of

 relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector

 throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification

 while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard flight

 and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

Andair boost for me. Fuel flow is a grey metal unit. I think most people have a red cube? Or am I confusing that with a fuel pressure device.  

   

BTW I didn’t go into too much detail because we changed a bunch of things this time around. New fuel lines, replaced some tubing, removed the Andair gascolator from the system.   

   

Robin  

Do Not Archive  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry

 Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:50 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation  

  

   

Robin,

 

 I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?

 

 I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.

 

 Thanks,

 Phil

 

 

 

     

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)painttheweb.com (Robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:      

Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the transducer living in the recommended and what should be it’s ideal location in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 GPH swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turned on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFIS data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS fuel totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. The fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel pressure warnings especially on climb out.  

As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard flight and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs. wild swings of well over 1 GPH.  

   

Robin   

   	  Quote: 	
		    get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  	


  

  

    	  Quote: 	
		   

= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse[/b] 	
[/b][/quote] Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,[/b]w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1[/quote] =======================[/b] [/quote]0 m">http://forums.matronics.com[/b] [/quote]1 	  Quote: 	
		    	
2                    -Matt Dralle, List A; http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] =======================[/b] [/quote]3

      [quote][b]

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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

The two most common flow transducers are EI's red cube and FloScan's grey

metal unit.



We moved our red cube some time ago and the difference was just like Robin

saw.  We have the stock pump.  My understanding is that pulses from the fuel

pump confuse the transducer.  Whatever the cause it seems to be pretty

universal.



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:



[quote]  Andair boost for me. Fuel flow is a grey metal unit. I think most people

 have a red cube? Or am I confusing that with a fuel pressure device.



 BTW I didnâ€™t go into too much detail because we changed a bunch of things

 this time around. New fuel lines, replaced some tubing, removed the Andair

 gascolator from the system.



 Robin



 Do Not Archive



 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:

 owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillip Perry

 *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:50 PM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation



 Robin,



 I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?



 I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the

 Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.



 Thanks,

 Phil



  On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)painttheweb.com>

 wrote:



 Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the

 transducer living in the recommended and what should be itâ€™s ideal location

 in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 GPH

 swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turned

 on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel

 burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFIS

 data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS fuel

 totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. The

 fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel pressure

 warnings especially on climb out.



 As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of

 relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector

 throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification

 while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard flight

 and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

philperry9(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:33 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

Thanks Robin...



I was hoping the Andair pump wouldn't exhibit some of the same issues.



The Air Flow (stock) pump operates with vanes and the Andair is a little more elegant.  It functions with a series of expanding cavities to essentially siphon the fuel through the pump.  You would think the removal of the vanes and use of cavities would reduce the pulses in the fuel.

 

I'm glad to know the problem still exist though with the Andair pump. I'm at that phase right now and have been contemplating putting it in the stock position or moving it forward.  You saved me some re-work.

 

I do like the Andair pump though and don't regret buying it.  The recirculate features are ported directly into the casing of the pump, so you can get rid of the return plumbing.  The motor is brushless, and I kinda like that for anything in the fuel system.  And the rotating cavities are not like vanes, so they don't have any friction with the housing and won't wear much at all.

 

I was just hoping it would be the silver bullet and fix the FF issue too..  But maybe I'm just being a little greedy?  



Phil



On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)painttheweb.com (Robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:

 [quote]             

Andair boost for me. Fuel flow is a grey metal unit. I think most people have a red cube? Or am I confusing that with a fuel pressure device.  

   

BTW I didn’t go into too much detail because we changed a bunch of things this time around. New fuel lines, replaced some tubing, removed the Andair gascolator from the system.   

   

Robin  

Do Not Archive  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry

 Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:50 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation  

  

   

Robin,

 

 I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?

 

 I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.

 

 Thanks,

 Phil

  

[b]

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

Flo Scan tech support told me "Do not install the sensor between two fuel  

pumps or erratic and unreliable readings may occour."



Before the  pumps and even the valve is best they said, but after the pumps 

would be  fine.  Just leave several inches of straight or gentley curved hose  

before and after the sensor.



However this was in reference to marine  applications as they no longer 

support aviation applications.



Dave  Leikam



 [quote]   ---

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:55 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

The instruction: .  “Just leave several inches of straight or gently curved hose before and after the sensor” made the tunnel an ideal place to install the FF Transducer. Unfortunately the install in my location makes the instructions nearly impossible to follow. I have a gentle bend leading into the FFT but a 90 degree turn after the FFT. Funny thing is I now have rock solid readings while before I had the issues described… Go Figure.  

   

Robin   

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam

 Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:15 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation  

  

  

     

Flo Scan tech support told me "Do not install the sensor between two fuel 

 pumps or erratic and unreliable readings may occour."

 

 Before the pumps and even the valve is best they said, but after the pumps 

 would be fine.  Just leave several inches of straight or gentley curved hose 

 before and after the sensor.

 

 However this was in reference to marine applications as they no longer 

 support aviation applications.

 

 Dave Leikam  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Robin Marks (Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:10 PM  

    

Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation  

    

   

  

Andair boost for me. Fuel flow is a grey metal unit. I think most people have a red cube? Or am I confusing that with a fuel pressure device.  

   

BTW I didn’t go into too much detail because we changed a bunch of things this time around. New fuel lines, replaced some tubing, removed the Andair gascolator from the system.   

   

Robin  

Do Not Archive  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry

 Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:50 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation  

  

   

Robin,

 

 I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?

 

 I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.

 

 Thanks,

 Phil

 

 

     

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)painttheweb.com (Robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:      

Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the transducer living in the recommended and what should be it’s ideal location in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 GPH swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turned on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFIS data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS fuel totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. The fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel pressure warnings especially on climb out.  

As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard flight and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs. wild swings of well over 1 GPH.  

   

Robin   

   	  Quote: 	
		    get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  	


  

  

    	  Quote: 	
		   = Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse 	
  

< Un>  

Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,   	  Quote: 	
		  w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1 	
   

=======================< FORUMS WEB MATRONICS ->   	  Quote: 	
		  <>  	
  

m">http://forums.matronics.com   	  Quote: 	
		    	
0  

=======================   	  Quote: 	
		    	
1 	  Quote: 	
		    	
2 	  Quote: 	
		    	
3 	  Quote: 	
		    	
4  	  Quote: 	
		    	
5 	  Quote: 	
		    	
6   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		    	
8 	  Quote: 	
		    	
9[/b][/quote] Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,[/b]get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/quote]0 =======================[/b]get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/quote]1 m">http://forums.matronics.com[/b]get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/quote]2 	  Quote: 	
		  get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
3                    -Matt Dralle, List A; http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] =======================[/b]get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/quote]4

      [quote][b]

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation

The problem with the tunnel location puts the sensor between the

electric pump and the engine driven pump. The sensor needs to be

before the pump, or after the engine driven pump.



On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The instruction: .  “Just leave several inches of straight or gently curved

 hose before and after the sensor” made the tunnel an ideal place to install

 the FF Transducer.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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