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Engine roughnessEngine roughness

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:53 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

Hugh,

  I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid 90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag "  After a lot of wire switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire. 

  Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a ground on the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a sewing pin and work your way down the wire from the connection at the modules. Punch thru the plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the pin to make sure you have continuity in the wire.Do this about every couple of inches or so all the way to the back of the engine I would be willing to bet you will find a break in the underlying wire and it is just barely touching at the broken end thus causing the module to be intermittently powered.That was the case with mine AND the break was in a straight wire run making it totally invisable from the surface . I found the internal wire break just a few inches from the module connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now back in business !

  I hope that is your problem

                                          Dick Maddux

                                          912 UL

                                          Milton,Fl  

  [quote][b]

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:56 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

AH nuts! I wrote so fast on the reply trying to help Hugh, I forgot to use spell check! Am somewhat embarrassed. I can fly airplanes but can't spell worth a flip !!!

                                                Dick Maddux

                                                    

  [quote][b]

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flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

Dick:

  

 What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first place?

  

 Any ideas?

  

 Barry

 On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <Catz631(at)aol.com (Catz631(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]  Hugh,

  I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid 90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag "  After a lot of wire switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire. 

  Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a ground on the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a sewing pin and work your way down the wire from the connection at the modules. Punch thru the plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the pin to make sure you have continuity in the wire.Do this about every couple of inches or so all the way to the back of the engine I would be willing to bet you will find a break in the underlying wire and it is just barely touching at the broken end thus causing the module to be intermittently powered.That was the case with mine AND the break was in a straight wire run making it totally invisable from the surface . I found the internal wire break just a few inches from the module connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now back in business !

   I hope that is your problem

                                          Dick Maddux

                                          912 UL

                                          Milton,Fl  

  	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

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jonathan(at)entry.co.za
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:55 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

I have just had this exact problem, the red wire was broken 10mm away from the plug!  (Found the problem using the pin and Ohm Meter method)  

   

I then bypassed the plug, with a new piece of wire, left the second ignition unchanged.  

   

Flew for 2 Hours, to discover that the second ignition, now had a broken wire! About 15mm from the plug!  

   

In both cases the wire had broken INSIDE the plastic insulation!  

   

Please note that I did NOT install any of these wires, this is as installed by ROTAX.  

How can such an expensive engine have such crappy wire!  

   

Jonathan  

     

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE

 Sent: 13 August 2010 02:43 PM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness  

  

     

Dick:  

    

   

    

What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first place?  

    

   

    

Any ideas?  

    

   

    

Barry  

    

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <Catz631(at)aol.com (Catz631(at)aol.com)> wrote:      

Hugh,  

    

 I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid 90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag "  After a lot of wire switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire.   

    

 Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a ground on the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a sewing pin and work your way down the wire from the connection at the modules. Punch thru the plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the pin to make sure you have continuity in the wire.Do this about every couple of inches or so all the way to the back of the engine I would be willing to bet you will find a break in the underlying wire and it is just barely touching at the broken end thus causing the module to be intermittently powered.That was the case with mine AND the break was in a straight wire run making it totally invisable from the surface . I found the internal wire break just a few inches from the module connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now back in business !  

    

 I hope that is your problem  

    

                                         Dick Maddux  

    

                                         912 UL  

    

                                         Milton,Fl    

   	  Quote: 	
		    ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listttp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	


  

  

  

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hgmckay

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

Jonathan,

  What "plug" are you referring to?  Where is  it located?

  

 Hugh McKay

  



  From: Jonathan (jonathan(at)entry.co.za) 

 Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:54 AM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: RE: Re: Engine roughnessEngine  roughness

 



  

I  have just had this exact problem, the red wire was broken 10mm away from the  plug!  (Found the problem using the pin and Ohm Meter  method) 

  

I  then bypassed the plug, with a new piece of wire, left the second ignition  unchanged. 

  

Flew  for 2 Hours, to discover that the second ignition, now had a broken wire! About  15mm from the plug! 

  

In  both cases the wire had broken INSIDE the plastic  insulation! 

  

Please  note that I did NOT install any of these wires, this is as installed by  ROTAX. 

How  can such an expensive engine have such crappy wire! 

  

Jonathan 

   

From:  owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  FLYaDIVE

Sent: 13 August 2010 02:43 PM

To:  rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:  Engine roughnessEngine roughness

 

   

Dick:

  

 

  

What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first  place?

  

 

  

Any ideas?

  

 

  

Barry

  

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <Catz631(at)aol.com (Catz631(at)aol.com)> wrote:   

Hugh,

  

 I had pretty  much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid 90's engine. The  engine would quit on one" mag "  After a lot of wire switching,etc it ended  up being a broken wire. 

  

 Check the red  power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't work) The way I  did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a ground on the engine (engine  is NOT running by the way) then get a sewing pin and work your way down the  wire from the connection at the modules. Punch thru the  plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the pin to make sure you  have continuity in the wire.Do this about every couple of inches or so all the  way to the back of the engine I would be willing to bet you will find a  break in the underlying wire and it is just barely touching at the broken  end thus causing the module to be intermittently powered.That was the case  with mine AND the break was in a straight wire run making it  totally invisable from the surface . I found the internal wire break  just a few inches from the module connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am  now back in business !

  

 I hope that is  your problem

  

                                          Dick Maddux

  

                                          912 UL

  

                                         Milton,Fl   

  	  Quote: 	
		    ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listttp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	


 

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jonathan(at)entry.co.za
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

There are two electronic modules, on top of the  motor,  marked A and B, these modules each have two plugs attached to them,  one 4 Way and one 6Way

  

 The 6Way plug connects, mostly to the Coils (HT  Side), but one of the connectors attaches to a red wire, that is from the  exciter coil, mounted on the back of the motor, where the pickup sensors are  mounted.

  

 The 4way connector is for the pickups at the back  of the motor.

  

 These two red wire comes from the back of the  motor, and are shrouded in metal braid, which stops just before they plu into  the 6way connector.

  

 It is just before the 6way connector, that the  wires break inside the insulation.

  

 So all I had to do, was find the end of the Red  wire(s) that still worked, bypass the 6way connector, and wire it straight into  the respective modules.

  

 Hope this helps

  

 Jonathan

 [quote]   ---

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

Dick:

      

      What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first place?

      

      Any ideas?

      

      Barry



 Johnathan and Berry

  When I first attendend Lockwood's 912 engine course,Dean(the instructor) mentioned that the most likely problems you will find during troubleshooting ignition problems is, broken wires under the sheilding. As to how it happens,I really don't know but I would guess it is vibration. What happens if you bend a paper clip many times ? Even though the wire in question is braided wire,that is what happens. The shielding can take more bending prior to breakage so therefore,you don't see the break in the underlying wire.

 That was the case with my engine and I suspect it will happen again.

                                                   Dick Maddux

                                                   912UL

          

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: Engine roughnessEngine roughness

Hugh,

  Something else you might try is switching wires from one module to the other and see if the problem follows.

                                    Dick Maddux

                                    Milton Fl

  [quote][b]

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