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klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

I have a failed Aeroflash 152-0011 double flash strobe power supply. 

Aeroflash tells me they will not overhaul it as it is older than 5 years.



It charges the 50uf 450 volt capacitor. I can hear the trigger fire at 

about 450 volts, the voltage keeps building and after about 3 audible 

triggers it shuts down, likely due to overvoltage at about 500 volts. 

After several seconds the voltage decays and this repeats. There are no 

trigger pulses to the flash tube at any time. Even with this 

description, the Aeroflash support tech thinks it is the proprietary 

photoflash capacitor but I thought I'd ask the list for any thoughts. It 

seems that the cap charges OK so I was surprised that the technician 

still thinks it is the capacitor. It seems they have very few failures 

of any other components. I have not found a circuit diagram and the 

semiconductors are not marked.



thanks

Ken

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

At 08:35 AM 8/16/2010, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>



 I have a failed Aeroflash 152-0011 double flash strobe power supply. Aeroflash tells me they will not overhaul it as it is older than 5 years.



 It charges the 50uf 450 volt capacitor. I can hear the trigger fire at about 450 volts, the voltage keeps building and after about 3 audible triggers it shuts down, likely due to overvoltage at about 500 volts. After several seconds the voltage decays and this repeats. There are no trigger pulses to the flash tube at any time. Even with this description, the Aeroflash support tech thinks it is the proprietary photoflash capacitor but I thought I'd ask the list for any thoughts. It seems that the cap charges OK so I was surprised that the technician still thinks it is the capacitor. It seems they have very few failures of any other components. I have not found a circuit diagram and the semiconductors are not marked. 	


   Here's an exemplar flash tube schematic:



 

 [img]cid:.0[/img]



   There are two capacitors involved with getting

   a strobe to flash. One is the fat energy storage

   capacitor . . . the one that gets charged to

   400+ volts. (C3 in the schematic)



   There's another small capacitor (C6 in this schematic)

   that also charges to 440+ volts. This is the

   trigger generator that gets discharged into

   the secondary of a trigger transformer with

   about a 1:30 step-up ratio. The resulting

   10,000+ volt pulse is simply applied to a wire

   that wraps around the glass envelope of the

   flash-tube. ELECTROSTATIC coupling of the

   trigger pulse through the glass excites the

   xenon gas into conduction whereby and energy

   from the fat capacitor is discharged through

   the gas.



   See:



  http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_strbfaq.html



   What you're describing suggests that the

   power supply is working and the energy storage

   capacitor is charging. What you're probably

   missing is the trigger stimulus.



   Bob . . .

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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

Bob  

   

I cannot find any C6 in the schematic. Is it that small?  

   

Carlos  

           

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

 Sent: segunda-feira, 16 de Agosto de 2010 15:56

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aeroflash power supply  

  

   

At 08:35 AM 8/16/2010, you wrote:

 

   

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>

 

 I have a failed Aeroflash 152-0011 double flash strobe power supply. Aeroflash tells me they will not overhaul it as it is older than 5 years.

 

 It charges the 50uf 450 volt capacitor. I can hear the trigger fire at about 450 volts, the voltage keeps building and after about 3 audible triggers it shuts down, likely due to overvoltage at about 500 volts. After several seconds the voltage decays and this repeats. There are no trigger pulses to the flash tube at any time. Even with this description, the Aeroflash support tech thinks it is the proprietary photoflash capacitor but I thought I'd ask the list for any thoughts. It seems that the cap charges OK so I was surprised that the technician still thinks it is the capacitor. It seems they have very few failures of any other components. I have not found a circuit diagram and the semiconductors are not marked.  



   Here's an exemplar flash tube schematic:

 

 

 [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CB3D60.574956D0[/img]

 

   There are two capacitors involved with getting

   a strobe to flash. One is the fat energy storage

   capacitor . . . the one that gets charged to

   400+ volts. (C3 in the schematic)

 

   There's another small capacitor (C6 in this schematic)

   that also charges to 440+ volts. This is the

   trigger generator that gets discharged into

   the secondary of a trigger transformer with

   about a 1:30 step-up ratio. The resulting

   10,000+ volt pulse is simply applied to a wire

   that wraps around the glass envelope of the

   flash-tube. ELECTROSTATIC coupling of the

   trigger pulse through the glass excites the

   xenon gas into conduction whereby and energy

   from the fat capacitor is discharged through

   the gas.

 

   See:

 

 http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_strbfaq.html

 

   What you're describing suggests that the

   power supply is working and the energy storage

   capacitor is charging. What you're probably

   missing is the trigger stimulus.

 

   Bob . . .

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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

C5 I think.

 [quote]   ---

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mcculleyja(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

Did you mean C5 rather than C6?



Jim

=====================================================================================

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 08:35 AM 8/16/2010, you wrote:

> 

>

> I have a failed Aeroflash 152-0011 double flash strobe power supply. 

> Aeroflash tells me they will not overhaul it as it is older than 5 years.

>

> It charges the 50uf 450 volt capacitor. I can hear the trigger fire 

> at about 450 volts, the voltage keeps building and after about 3 

> audible triggers it shuts down, likely due to overvoltage at about 

> 500 volts. After several seconds the voltage decays and this repeats. 

> There are no trigger pulses to the flash tube at any time. Even with 

> this description, the Aeroflash support tech thinks it is the 

> proprietary photoflash capacitor but I thought I'd ask the list for 

> any thoughts. It seems that the cap charges OK so I was surprised 

> that the technician still thinks it is the capacitor. It seems they 

> have very few failures of any other components. I have not found a 

> circuit diagram and the semiconductors are not marked.



   Here's an exemplar flash tube schematic:

 Emacs!



   There are two capacitors involved with getting

   a strobe to flash. One is the fat energy storage

   capacitor . . . the one that gets charged to

   400+ volts. (C3 in the schematic)



   There's another small capacitor (C6 in this schematic)

   that also charges to 440+ volts. This is the

   trigger generator that gets discharged into

   the secondary of a trigger transformer with

   about a 1:30 step-up ratio. The resulting

   10,000+ volt pulse is simply applied to a wire

   that wraps around the glass envelope of the

   flash-tube. ELECTROSTATIC coupling of the

   trigger pulse through the glass excites the

   xenon gas into conduction whereby and energy

   from the fat capacitor is discharged through

   the gas.



   See:



 http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_strbfaq.html



   What you're describing suggests that the

   power supply is working and the energy storage

   capacitor is charging. What you're probably

   missing is the trigger stimulus.



   Bob . . .

===================================================================================

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

On 8/16/2010 8:35 AM, Ken wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have a failed Aeroflash 152-0011 double flash strobe power supply. 

 Aeroflash tells me they will not overhaul it as it is older than 5 years.



 It charges the 50uf 450 volt capacitor. I can hear the trigger fire at 

 about 450 volts, the voltage keeps building and after about 3 audible 

 triggers it shuts down, likely due to overvoltage at about 500 volts. 

 After several seconds the voltage decays and this repeats. There are 

 no trigger pulses to the flash tube at any time. Even with this 

 description, the Aeroflash support tech thinks it is the proprietary 

 photoflash capacitor but I thought I'd ask the list for any thoughts. 

 It seems that the cap charges OK so I was surprised that the 

 technician still thinks it is the capacitor. It seems they have very 

 few failures of any other components. I have not found a circuit 

 diagram and the semiconductors are not marked.



 thanks

 Ken

Note to self: Aeroflash does not adequately support their products. 
	


Avoid that brand.



Not much help for you, but passing along that info could help a lot of 

other homebuilders.



Thanks,



Charlie

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

The strobe refresher and reference was appreciated.



It seems that the trigger transformer is actually embedded in the molded 

silicone base of the 073-0270 flashtube. An old troubleshooting FAQ says 

that a voltmeter should measure 150 to 175 volts on the trigger line out 

of the power supply (scope still shows zero). The resistances that I 

measure on a new flashtube seem to confirm that the transformer is in 

the flashtube assembly.



It looks like the triggering SCR in the power supply is a T106C1 rated 

at 300 volts. Now if I could just figure out why it has no voltage to 

switch...



Ken



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 08:35 AM 8/16/2010, you wrote:

> 

>

> I have a failed Aeroflash 152-0011 double flash strobe power supply. 

> Aeroflash tells me they will not overhaul it as it is older than 5 years.

>

> It charges the 50uf 450 volt capacitor. I can hear the trigger fire at 

> about 450 volts, the voltage keeps building and after about 3 audible 

> triggers it shuts down, likely due to overvoltage at about 500 volts. 

> After several seconds the voltage decays and this repeats. There are 

> no trigger pulses to the flash tube at any time. Even with this 

> description, the Aeroflash support tech thinks it is the proprietary 

> photoflash capacitor but I thought I'd ask the list for any thoughts. 

> It seems that the cap charges OK so I was surprised that the 

> technician still thinks it is the capacitor. It seems they have very 

> few failures of any other components. I have not found a circuit 

> diagram and the semiconductors are not marked.

 

   Here's an exemplar flash tube schematic:

 

 

 Emacs!

 

   There are two capacitors involved with getting

   a strobe to flash. One is the fat energy storage

   capacitor . . . the one that gets charged to

   400+ volts. (C3 in the schematic)

 

   There's another small capacitor (C6 in this schematic)

   that also charges to 440+ volts. This is the

   trigger generator that gets discharged into

   the secondary of a trigger transformer with

   about a 1:30 step-up ratio. The resulting

   10,000+ volt pulse is simply applied to a wire

   that wraps around the glass envelope of the

   flash-tube. ELECTROSTATIC coupling of the

   trigger pulse through the glass excites the

   xenon gas into conduction whereby and energy

   from the fat capacitor is discharged through

   the gas.

 

   See:

 

 http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_strbfaq.html

 

   What you're describing suggests that the

   power supply is working and the energy storage

   capacitor is charging. What you're probably

   missing is the trigger stimulus.

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:18 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

At 11:38 AM 8/16/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Did you mean C5 rather than C6?


	


  Yes, that's a typo. In the schematic I published,

  C3 is the flash-tube energy storage capacitor and

  C5 is energy source for generating a trigger spike.

   Bob . . .

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

I suspect this failure is atypical but here is what I learned in case it 

helps anyone. This is for a aeroflash 152-0011 power supply with a year 

2000 build date. Beside where the 3 strobe wires are soldered to the 

circuit board is a T106C1 SCR which switches the trigger signal. My 

power supply was not outputting any trigger voltage and I had no voltage 

on the anode (center pin) of the SCR. About 3/4" away there were two 

330k resistors side by side that divide the 400 volt nominal flash 

capacitor voltage in half and then feed the scr and the 330nf trigger 

capacitor (blue rectangular cap). The larger 330k resistor (one is half 

watt and the other is quarter watt) was found to be open circuited. New 

resistor, replace the parts that I removed in the process and all is 

well again. There is a trick circuit there as the resistance measured 

about as expected when the resistor was in circuit.

As mentioned in another post the trigger transformer was found to be 

molded into the 073-0270 flashtube assembly and the power supply only 

sends a nominal 175 volt trigger voltage to the flashtube. The tube 

flashes when the SCR discharges the 330nf capacitor dropping the 

outputted trigger voltage to zero.

Usual Caveats - the large capacitor can carry a 450+ volt fatal charge 

even after power is removed from the circuit. Mine bled down to safe 

levels in about 10 seconds but yours might not.

Ken

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 08:35 AM 8/16/2010, you wrote:

> 

>

> I have a failed Aeroflash 152-0011 double flash strobe power supply. 

> Aeroflash tells me they will not overhaul it as it is older than 5 years.

>

> It charges the 50uf 450 volt capacitor. I can hear the trigger fire at 

> about 450 volts, the voltage keeps building and after about 3 audible 

> triggers it shuts down, likely due to overvoltage at about 500 volts. 

> After several seconds the voltage decays and this repeats. There are 

> no trigger pulses to the flash tube at any time. Even with this 

> description, the Aeroflash support tech thinks it is the proprietary 

> photoflash capacitor but I thought I'd ask the list for any thoughts. 

> It seems that the cap charges OK so I was surprised that the 

> technician still thinks it is the capacitor. It seems they have very 

> few failures of any other components. I have not found a circuit 

> diagram and the semiconductors are not marked.

   Here's an exemplar flash tube schematic:

 Emacs!

   There are two capacitors involved with getting

   a strobe to flash. One is the fat energy storage

   capacitor . . . the one that gets charged to

   400+ volts. (C3 in the schematic)

   There's another small capacitor (C6 in this schematic)

   that also charges to 440+ volts. This is the

   trigger generator that gets discharged into

   the secondary of a trigger transformer with

   about a 1:30 step-up ratio. The resulting

   10,000+ volt pulse is simply applied to a wire

   that wraps around the glass envelope of the

   flash-tube. ELECTROSTATIC coupling of the

   trigger pulse through the glass excites the

   xenon gas into conduction whereby and energy

   from the fat capacitor is discharged through

   the gas.

   See:

 http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_strbfaq.html

   What you're describing suggests that the

   power supply is working and the energy storage

   capacitor is charging. What you're probably

   missing is the trigger stimulus.

   Bob . . .

skywagon

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Aeroflash power supply

Ken,

..great detail and I for one appreciate your findings and insight.

this will be added to my library as I have buds with similar strobe set-ups.

David

______________________________________



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