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Vertex VXA700 information needed

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rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

I am trying to hook up a Vertex VXA700 handheld as a second Com to my PS Engineering PSA4000 audio panel.



Here is link to owners manual (1.01MB):

http://www.vertexstandard.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=204&encProdID=CDA841ED5B9711A5833A60A9115F5EDE&DivisionID=2&isArchived=1



As per manual on page 65 I have a CT-96 headset cable. The problem is I want the audio panel to allow the Pilot and Co-Pilot PTT to transmit on Com 2 (Vertex) when I select Com 2.



Does anyone have a schematic how to wire the CT-96 headset cable to accomplish this task?



I do have as shown on page 65 the external PTT switch.



This is not a simple device that goes in series with the mic jack and pulls  PTT wire to ground. It has two switches that I believe could be replicated with a relay that has the coil powered and could look for ground through the PTT pin of Com 2 on the PMA 4000. I think when the external PTT switch/es are pushed, it disables the handhelds internal mic while connecting to the mic on headset.



Vertex was not of much assistance. They sent over a Service manual and a diagram of CT-96, which have errors. When I asked another question that would have solved my issue, Vertex said they don't make the external PTT and couldn't help me any further.



Thx.

Ron Parigoris

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Vertex VXA700 information needed

I wanted to share information I have about hooking up a handheld Vertex VXA700 to an audio panel since help form other sources seems to be in short order:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81045

This is the cable for vertex that allows you to use an external PTT switch. You can select a higher resolution on top right of page.



Here is completed cable and schematic:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81445



Ron Parigoris

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

At 09:13 PM 8/18/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>



Figured I share information I have about hooking up a handheld 

Vertex VXA700 to an audio panel since help form other sources seems 

to be in short order:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81045

This is cable that allows you to use an external PTT switch. You can 

select a higher resolution on top right of page.



Here is completed cable and schematic:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81445


	


  Ron, would you scan copies of your schematics

  and send them to me? I'd be pleased to post them

  to the website. I sucked your posted camera images

  into PhotoShop but they were not sufficiently exposed

  to pop out the linework.



  A paper copy mailed to me or a scanned .jpg/.tiff/.etc

  would be better.



  Bob . . .

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

On 8/19/2010 6:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



 At 09:13 PM 8/18/2010, you wrote:

> 

> <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>

>

> Figured I share information I have about hooking up a handheld Vertex 

> VXA700 to an audio panel since help form other sources seems to be in 

> short order:

> http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81045

> This is cable that allows you to use an external PTT switch. You can 

> select a higher resolution on top right of page.

>

> Here is completed cable and schematic:

> http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81445



  Ron, would you scan copies of your schematics

  and send them to me? I'd be pleased to post them

  to the website. I sucked your posted camera images

  into PhotoShop but they were not sufficiently exposed

  to pop out the linework.



  A paper copy mailed to me or a scanned .jpg/.tiff/.etc

  would be better.



  Bob . . .

Bob,
	




Did you try the higher res image? I couldn't see the small one, but the 

hi res version was readable, at least on my screen.



Charlie

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

At 07:15 PM 8/19/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>

Did you try the higher res image? I couldn't see the small one, but 

the hi res version was readable, at least on my screen.


	


   Missed that. Thanks!  I think it will work for

   me. Will fiddle with it a bit in the morning.



   Bob . . .

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:21 am Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

Hi BobIf the higher resolution is still unacceptable, let me know and I can e-mail you an even higher resolution photo.Ron Parigoris    [quote][b]

sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

Hi Ron.

Comment 1:  I would recommend a 1N4007 diode snubber across the relay coil 

in your PTT circuit.   I'm not sure of the internal circuitry to the PM4000, 

but this should eliminate any problems.

Comment 2:  This whole circuit should work without the relay, with direct 

connections between the VXA700 and PM4000.  Is there a reason that you added 

the relay?  I have a VXA700 connected to my audio system and have not 

experienced any problems.  Is there something I'm missing?



Thanks for sharing this.



Vern



--------------------------------------------------

From: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:13 PM

To: <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Vertex VXA700 information needed



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>



 Figured I share information I have about hooking up a handheld Vertex 

 VXA700 to an audio panel since help form other sources seems to be in 

 short order:

 http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81045

 This is cable that allows you to use an external PTT switch. You can 

 select a higher resolution on top right of page.



 Here is completed cable and schematic:

 http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81445



 Ron Parigoris





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309347#309347






	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 18:35:00

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

At 05:19 AM 8/20/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob

If the higher resolution is still unacceptable, let me know and I 

can e-mail you an even higher resolution photo.

Ron Parigoris


	


    I can get what I need from the photos.

    Thanks!

        Bob . . .

                    ////

                   (o o)

    ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========

    < Go ahead, make my day . . .   >

    < show me where I'm wrong.      >

    =================================

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Vertex VXA700 information needed

Hi Vern



We purchased an adapter cable and an external PTT switch when we purchased our VXA700. 



We ohmed out the harness and it indeed has two separate switches, one connects mic high when you push PTT, and the other switch grounds PTT high.



I have a schematic for VXA 700 that Vertex support sent us, it does not include enough information to figure out why the harness would use two switches to do what they are doing. 



After several calls and finally cornered the support guy, he bowed out by saying Vertex doesn't make the harness and can't comment on it. He said the VXA 700 is not intended to be hooked up to an audio panel.



I know that when we hook up the VXA 700 to our PMA4000 audio panel and use the harness I have with external PTT switch it works fine.



I talked to PS Engineering and told him I wanted to use the mini DPDT relay as you can see on the right side near coin on second pic I posted to replicate two mechanical switches. I asked him if he thought it was OK to supply power to the coil of relay and have PMA4000 do the grounding when I push the PTT that is located on sticks and he thought that would be fine.



Someone knows why my harness uses two separate switches to transmit. Vertex support does not know why. PS Engineering does not know why. I do not know why. 



I do know that the two switch arrangement works fine. My partner is an EE and thinks it best we replicate what we do know. His gut feeling is leaving mic connected all the time may not be a good thing to do. Perhaps someone could speculate why they may do this? Built into unit is a speaker and mic.



Anyway there's our reasoning how and why we connected the four wire Vertex plug to our audio panel.



You mention it may be a good idea to install a diode across the relay coil. We already finished harness and it would be a big effort to open up harness and get close to relay to install diode.



You can see size of relay against a penny on the right side:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81445&g2_imageViewsIndex=1



You can enlarge the pic to full size by selecting full size on top right of screen. The specifics are listed on schematic about the relay we are using. There is no mA draw of coil on information we have but it is not very much of a draw. Could get information off the data sheet.



My question to you is what potential problem or problems could be caused by not using a diode across the coil of this mini relay?



Do you think I should try harness as it is wired and if we  experience a problem/s you describe, then install a diode?



Or perhaps go half way between the two and install a diode about 6" away from the relay? BTW we are supplying power to the relay coil through a #24 wire that is about 20" long.



I also have some snapjacks on hand if you think that a better choice.



Ron Parigoris

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

Ron, I don't know why either, exactly, except that the PTT switch that Icom sold me for my A22 is set up the same way with two switches. Somewhere I got the idea is that one switch is NC and the other is NO. The NC is connected to the transmitter, the NO to the reciever. When the button is just sitting there doin' nothin', the transmitter is grounded and the receiver is open. Push the switch and the opposite happens the receiver is grounded out and the transmitter is open. The idea is to prevent the receiver and the transmitter from forming a feedback loop.  Feel free to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, there's a good chance I don't, but I seem to remember someone on this forum 'splainin' it that way somewhere in the distant past.Interesting that the VXA 220 uses a single switch in exactly the manner Bob described when I wrote in asking for help just this last May.

 



Rick



On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:52 PM, rparigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>

 

 Hi Vern

 

 We purchased an adapter cable and an external PTT switch when we purchased our VXA700.

 

 We ohmed out the harness and it indeed has two separate switches, one connects mic high when you push PTT, and the other switch grounds PTT high.

 

 I have a schematic for VXA 700 that Vertex support sent us, it does not include enough information to figure out why the harness would use two switches to do what they are doing.

 

 After several calls and finally cornered the support guy, he bowed out by saying Vertex doesn't make the harness and can't comment on it. He said the VXA 700 is not intended to be hooked up to an audio panel.

  

 I know that when we hook up the VXA 700 to our PMA4000 audio panel and use the harness I have with external PTT switch it works fine.

 

 I talked to PS Engineering and told him I wanted to use the mini DPDT relay as you can see on the right side near coin on second pic I posted to replicate two mechanical switches. I asked him if he thought it was OK to supply power to the coil of relay and have PMA4000 do the grounding when I push the PTT that is located on sticks and he thought that would be fine.

  

 Someone knows why my harness uses two separate switches to transmit. Vertex support does not know why. PS Engineering does not know why. I do not know why.

 

 I do know that the two switch arrangement works fine. My partner is an EE and thinks it best we replicate what we do know. His gut feeling is leaving mic connected all the time may not be a good thing to do. Perhaps someone could speculate why they may do this? Built into unit is a speaker and mic.

  

 Anyway there's our reasoning how and why we connected the four wire Vertex plug to our audio panel.

 

 You mention it may be a good idea to install a diode across the relay coil. We already finished harness and it would be a big effort to open up harness and get close to relay to install diode.

 

 You can see size of relay against a penny on the right side:

 http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81445&g2_imageViewsIndex=1

 

 You can enlarge the pic to full size by selecting full size on top right of screen. The specifics are listed on schematic about the relay we are using. There is no mA draw of coil on information we have but it is not very much of a draw. Could get information off the data sheet.

  

 My question to you is what potential problem or problems could be caused by not using a diode across the coil of this mini relay?

 

 Do you think I should try harness as it is wired and if we  experience a problem/s you describe, then install a diode?

 

 Or perhaps go half way between the two and install a diode about 6" away from the relay? BTW we are supplying power to the relay coil through a 324 wire that is about 20# long.

 

 I also have some snapjacks on hand if you think that a better choice.

 

 Ron Parigoris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309694#309694

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

   - G.K. Chesterton



 



  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Vertex VXA700 information needed

Hi Rick



If your Icom has two switches and is making one connection and breaking another when you push the PTT, it is different than my Vertex that makes two connections.



On my Vertex VXA700 when you push the PTT one switch connects the mic high to pin 3 (mic high), this is a normal opened switch.



The other switch connects mic low to pin 2 (PTT high), this is a normal opened switch.



Thus my single relay is a double pole relay that just makes two connections when the PTT is depressed.



My double pole relay is doing exactly the same thing as pressing the premade harness  PTT I have, when the PTT is depressed, two individual single pole switches make.



Would you mind taking an ohm meter to your set up and report back if in fact one switch is making and one breaking? 



If it is in fact like my Vertex where both switches make, I will give Icom and pick their brains!



Ron Parigoris

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:43 am Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

Sure Ron, happy to help. I'll do it this afternoon when it's too hot to be outside anyway. What can I say, I'm a woose for this hot muggy weather.



Rick



On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 12:16 AM, rparigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>

  

 Hi Rick

 

 If your Icom has two switches and is making one connection and breaking another when you push the PTT, it is different than my Vertex that makes two connections.

 

 On my Vertex VXA700 when you push the PTT one switch connects the mic high to pin 3 (mic high), this is a normal opened switch.

 

 The other switch connects mic low to pin 2 (PTT high), this is a normal opened switch.

 

 Thus my single relay is a double pole relay that just makes two connections when the PTT is depressed.

 

 My double pole relay is doing exactly the same thing as pressing the premade harness  PTT I have, when the PTT is depressed, two individual single pole switches make.

 

 Would you mind taking an ohm meter to your set up and report back if in fact one switch is making and one breaking?

 

 If it is in fact like my Vertex where both switches make, I will give Icom and pick their brains!

 

 Ron Parigoris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309709#309709

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

   - G.K. Chesterton



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:33 am Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

Ron, I am completely wrong in my memories about the Icom PTT for their headset adapter (Icom part no. OPC-499). The plug is a monaural 1/8" (two contacts). This switch is connected to the microphone socket only. When the PTT is open the three contacts of the microphone socket are open to each other. When the switch is pressed the middle contact is connected to the ground contact. So, essentially I was completely full of c*** with my memories last night.

Sorry for the misdirection.

Rick



On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Sure Ron, happy to help. I'll do it this afternoon when it's too hot to be outside anyway. What can I say, I'm a woose for this hot muggy weather. 



Rick

On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 12:16 AM, rparigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>

   

 Hi Rick

 

 If your Icom has two switches and is making one connection and breaking another when you push the PTT, it is different than my Vertex that makes two connections.

 

 On my Vertex VXA700 when you push the PTT one switch connects the mic high to pin 3 (mic high), this is a normal opened switch.

 

 The other switch connects mic low to pin 2 (PTT high), this is a normal opened switch.

 

 Thus my single relay is a double pole relay that just makes two connections when the PTT is depressed.

 

 My double pole relay is doing exactly the same thing as pressing the premade harness  PTT I have, when the PTT is depressed, two individual single pole switches make.

 

 Would you mind taking an ohm meter to your set up and report back if in fact one switch is making and one breaking?

 

 If it is in fact like my Vertex where both switches make, I will give Icom and pick their brains!

 

 Ron Parigoris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309709#309709

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	






-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

 It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

   - G.K. Chesterton



 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

   - G.K. Chesterton



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: Vertex VXA700 information needed

FYI The David Clark PTT switch works the same way-disconnects the MIC until 

the PTT is pushed.  I don't know why this is essential... it might be that 

for battery powered equipment, it reduces current drain (the mic bias) until 

required.  Sometimes it becomes "because that's the way we've always done 

it".  Bob may know better.



As for the relay snubber, the diode can be added somewhere else.  It's a low 

power relay, so the amount of coil energy involved is small-- a regular 

diode works fine.



Good Luck



V



--------------------------------------------------

From: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>

Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:52 PM

To: <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Vertex VXA700 information needed



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>



 Hi Vern



 We purchased an adapter cable and an external PTT switch when we purchased 

 our VXA700.



 We ohmed out the harness and it indeed has two separate switches, one 

 connects mic high when you push PTT, and the other switch grounds PTT 

 high.



 I have a schematic for VXA 700 that Vertex support sent us, it does not 

 include enough information to figure out why the harness would use two 

 switches to do what they are doing.



 After several calls and finally cornered the support guy, he bowed out by 

 saying Vertex doesn't make the harness and can't comment on it. He said 

 the VXA 700 is not intended to be hooked up to an audio panel.



 I know that when we hook up the VXA 700 to our PMA4000 audio panel and use 

 the harness I have with external PTT switch it works fine.



 I talked to PS Engineering and told him I wanted to use the mini DPDT 

 relay as you can see on the right side near coin on second pic I posted to 

 replicate two mechanical switches. I asked him if he thought it was OK to 

 supply power to the coil of relay and have PMA4000 do the grounding when I 

 push the PTT that is located on sticks and he thought that would be fine.



 Someone knows why my harness uses two separate switches to transmit. 

 Vertex support does not know why. PS Engineering does not know why. I do 

 not know why.



 I do know that the two switch arrangement works fine. My partner is an EE 

 and thinks it best we replicate what we do know. His gut feeling is 

 leaving mic connected all the time may not be a good thing to do. Perhaps 

 someone could speculate why they may do this? Built into unit is a speaker 

 and mic.



 Anyway there's our reasoning how and why we connected the four wire Vertex 

 plug to our audio panel.



 You mention it may be a good idea to install a diode across the relay 

 coil. We already finished harness and it would be a big effort to open up 

 harness and get close to relay to install diode.



 You can see size of relay against a penny on the right side:

 http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81445&g2_imageViewsIndex=1



 You can enlarge the pic to full size by selecting full size on top right 

 of screen. The specifics are listed on schematic about the relay we are 

 using. There is no mA draw of coil on information we have but it is not 

 very much of a draw. Could get information off the data sheet.



 My question to you is what potential problem or problems could be caused 

 by not using a diode across the coil of this mini relay?



 Do you think I should try harness as it is wired and if we  experience a 

 problem/s you describe, then install a diode?



 Or perhaps go half way between the two and install a diode about 6" away 

 from the relay? BTW we are supplying power to the relay coil through a 324 

 wire that is about 20# long.



 I also have some snapjacks on hand if you think that a better choice.



 Ron Parigoris





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309694#309694






	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 06:35:00

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