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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: C-GLOB |
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On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Luc Michaud wrote:
| Quote: | By the way, I had 2 full inches of extra length in my garage for
A059 on its trailer. So, with the spinner in place, we are talking
of 19'6" on the trailer.
|
I've heard it said that 2" can make all the difference in the world...
BTW Luc, by what means did you end up getting the Europa up to CA?
Fred
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rambug(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: C-GLOB |
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(PLS note that I have some questions at the end of this email.)
Ok let's talk about the soon-to-registered as C-GLOB Europa Classic monowheel s/n A059 built by Jim Stoveken....
I used uship.com to book a transport from the southeastern tip of GA right up to about 2 miles from the Canadian border near Montreal.
I got someone with a diesel pickup towing a 28' enclosed trailer to pick-up the airplane. The previous owner arranged for him to have access to the plane rigged on its Europa trailer, and he loaded it in around 9h00 on Sunday July 25th. The Europa trailer was well secured to the inside of the enclosed trailer, and they were off...
About an hour after, they went and checked the state of the trailer and the fuselage was all sideways on one side. The monowheel had not been properly strapped in its cradle... They call me with the news, and I thought they had broken the thing in 2 at the time, but it turned out to only cause some minor damages on the port side of the fuselage, due to rubbing against the bolts on the wing cradle. So, they managed to straighten the fuselage and strap the monowheel in place, and set off again...
At a later stop/check, they noticed the tailwheel had come loose, causing it to bump against the top of the enclosed trailer, and causing a ding up to the foam in a very localized area of the top of the tail, due to rubbing agains the edge of a lighting fixture at the top of the trailer. So, they put more straps on top of the tailwheel...
They're back off, until they notice that the monowheel strap actually broke... Presumably the sides of the MLG arm were sharp enough to cut through the fabric. Minor damage on the starboard side of the fuselage now...
No more damage ensued, although I didn`t check if the tailwheel bearing/axle got damaged yet.
So, on the next day (Monday), they delivered the plane at around 13h30. We rigged the Europa trailer to my car, I installed my Quebec license plate on it, put all the miscellaneous items in my car (top cowling, tailplanes, documentation, etc) and I was off to the border.
Border passage went ok, after GST and PST were perceived. Some concerns were present with regards to the homebuilt trailer, but they finally did decide that all was ok.
So, drove over at no more than 80 km/h to my home, where a friend helped to remove the port wing from its cradle, and attempt to put the trailer in my basement garage. It did fit ! Had the hacksaw all set up and ready to butcher the end wall of my garage. No need, thank goodness.
Now, I have gone through a bit all the stuff I received with the plane:
classic builder's manual (circa 1996), owner's manual, rotax manuals, radios manuals, builder's log w/ photo album, airframe log, and engine log.
Here are my questions:
1. The underside of A059 is all grimy. What product can I use to clean the fuselage ?
2. According to the fuel system schema, I do not have a return line. I however see a line going back from just before the port carburetor fuel intake (seemingly to a junction at the main tank outlet ?). Was there a mod that changed this ? Can I get access to it ?
3. I have the Classic fuel sight gauge with a clear tube going over a vertical hatched pattern to the right of the pilot's right knee. Is this system ok ? Should I only change the tubing to them blue tubes ?
4. Should I re-do all the fuel tubing, knowing that the aircraft first flew nearly 11 years ago ?
5. What's the best material to change the fuel filler tube ? It stinks... Anyone looked at Goodyear products ? What are the inner diameters involved ?
6. The ID plate of A059 is affixed on the removeable panel behind the baggage bay. Anyone did the same ? I think in Canada I'll get snagged on this.
7. Gascolators... I'm looking to install them new ACS high-pressure gascolators. My inspector told me over the phone to install only 1, and that it should typically be installed at the lowest point of the fuel system, which would be in level flight the lowest part of the firewall. Should I install it after the electrical pump, over there ? I see a lot of discussions here about twin gascolator setups.
8. Cabin and Carb heat: My rotax tech says the 912's carbs are already too hot, being on top of the rear cyl exhaust pipes, and that permanently adding heat to the carbs was asking for trouble, as the fuel could boil before the carbs. He is infact advocating for adding heat shields underneat the carbs, and bringing carb heat through a muffler shroud and an airbox. The Classic muffler has an embedded very short air heating shroud on its top front section. Anyone used this ? Is this hot enough for carb heat ? Is this even hot enough for cabin heat ?
9. Am I correct to understand that the electrical system does not use any solenoid for the master switch ?
10. A059 relies on fuses, should I replace with breakers ?
11. How do I keep the airframe standing when I want to remove the MLG to change the bungees ?
12. The surface of the wings is rather wobbly but no sign of delamination, Anything I should be looking out for ?
That a lot of questions. I hope some of you will find it in them to answer some of them.
I want to get this baby ready for inspection.
Then, I'll need to find a test pilot which will check out the airplane, and then transition-train me. Maybe that Decathlon aerobatics instructor ?
Regards,
Luc
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:29, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)>
On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Luc Michaud wrote:
| Quote: | By the way, I had 2 full inches of extra length in my garage for A059 on its trailer. So, with the spinner in place, we are talking of 19'6" on the trailer.
|
I've heard it said that 2" can make all the difference in the world...
BTW Luc, by what means did you end up getting the Europa up to CA?
Fred
do not archive
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: C-GLOB |
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From: Luc Michaud <rambug(at)gmail.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, 26 August, 2010 5:51:28
Subject: Re: C-GLOB
(
Luc
you do need a fuel return line.
Classic sight gauge is not very good.Better to have it nearer the tank, up the front of the seat back works quite well
You might need carb heat. The best way is hot water. Skydrive UK sell a kit for it which is the recommended way (be Rotax) Fit the Rotax carb heat shields but check they fit with the Skydrive carb heat.
Twin gascolators is best, Andair or similar, before the fuel selector. You then have each tank gascolated. Expensive though but they will keep water out of the carbs
Fuses are more reliable than breakers.
Graham
Here are my questions:
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:58 am Post subject: C-GLOB |
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Luc,
Having read your shipping descriptions and the strapping problems, forgive me if I extracted some humor from them. The ship is home safe now, so hopefully it is ok. I hope any damage is small.
That's a lot of questions, I don't have experience with a lot of them, since my plane is awhile from flying.
In the experimental world of airplanes, many times there is no correct or right way of doing something (safety issues aside). My opinion is that the answer to many questions, such as whether to use breakers or fuses, is a personal one based on the functionality you are looking for.
Most importantly, it would be wise to check the regs for Canada (or wherever your home station resides), and answer some of the questions based on their content.
Here is a stab at a few (others will have their opinions to add, I hope):
>3. I have the Classic fuel sight gauge with a clear tube going over a vertical hatched pattern to the right of the pilot's right knee. Is this system ok ? Should I only change the tubing to them blue tubes ?
Many people use this. In level stable flight and proper venting, it might work ok. Others have moved it closer to the tank (much better) to the space between the seats, or have eliminated it altogether. Other options include capacitance, float, or Europa's level checker which should be available on the web sight. One nifty method measures the weight of the fuel in the tank. My personal opinion is that at least one redundant method would be a minimum system. Out of the two methods, one should be a direct measurement. For example: one float and one fuel calculator (based on fuel flow sensor, automatically incorporated into current day EFIS systems) should be ok. Or a sight gauge and a fuel calculator. In the end, it comes down to you. If I had just bought the plane, and the current gauge is working well, I probably would not change it right away. Small well-checked changes over large periods of time would be my mantra, if everything else works great....especially for fuel systems, which have a higher rate of incidence of causing problems in small aircraft. That would be in hopes of keeping any new changes from creating large problems.
As for tubing changes, there is a lot of information for this on the Matronics server. General consensus shows many tube types need replacing every few years due to discoloring. There is a hybrid tube with teflon on the inside that appears to have a lot of potential. I will be using it, but it is untested by me. Others have tested it, however.
>4. Should I re-do all the fuel tubing, knowing that the aircraft first flew nearly 11 years ago ?
To be on the conservative side....probably. If not already done, be sure to check the maintenance logs to see if it has been done. I think the Europa documentation weighs in on this somewhere..
9. Am I correct to understand that the electrical system does not use any solenoid for the master switch ?
Some people use one, some don't. If power requirements are relatively low, a solenoid for the master switch is not needed.
Best Regards,
Greg
[quote][b]
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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: C-GLOB |
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Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street'
Fendalton,
Christchurch.
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 64 3 3515166
Mob 021 0640221
Email ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
[quote] ---
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:48 am Post subject: C-GLOB |
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Hi Luc,
You may want to look at another Europa. I am parked at Cornwall Regional, which is about an hour from west Montreal. I can advise you on your queries, unless mono-specific.
Also about Canadian requirements for the inspection. My first advice would be to do only what is necessary for the Special CofA and find a test pilot. You can then spend a couple years changing anything else. There doesn't seem that much to do.
Did you not get the airframe/engine logbooks ? They would tell you about fuel line and oil change etc.
Talk to the previous owner about your concern for the wings. Were they always like that from day one, or did they change ? In the latter case I would be very concerned.
Karl
From: rambug(at)gmail.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:51:28 -0400
Subject: Re: C-GLOB
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
(PLS note that I have some questions at the end of this email.)
Ok let's talk about the soon-to-registered as C-GLOB Europa Classic monowheel s/n A059 built by Jim Stoveken....
I used uship.com to book a transport from the southeastern tip of GA right up to about 2 miles from the Canadian border near Montreal.
I got someone with a diesel pickup towing a 28' enclosed trailer to pick-up the airplane. The previous owner arranged for him to have access to the plane rigged on its Europa trailer, and he loaded it in around 9h00 on Sunday July 25th. The Europa trailer was well secured to the inside of the enclosed trailer, and they were off...
About an hour after, they went and checked the state of the trailer and the fuselage was all sideways on one side. The monowheel had not been properly strapped in its cradle... They call me with the news, and I thought they had broken the thing in 2 at the time, but it turned out to only cause some minor damages on the port side of the fuselage, due to rubbing against the bolts on the wing cradle. So, they managed to straighten the fuselage and strap the monowheel in place, and set off again...
At a later stop/check, they noticed the tailwheel had come loose, causing it to bump against the top of the enclosed trailer, and causing a ding up to the foam in a very localized area of the top of the tail, due to rubbing agains the edge of a lighting fixture at the top of the trailer. So, they put more straps on top of the tailwheel...
They're back off, until they notice that the monowheel strap actually broke... Presumably the sides of the MLG arm were sharp enough to cut through the fabric. Minor damage on the starboard side of the fuselage now...
No more damage ensued, although I didn`t check if the tailwheel bearing/axle got damaged yet.
So, on the next day (Monday), they delivered the plane at around 13h30. We rigged the Europa trailer to my car, I installed my Quebec license plate on it, put all the miscellaneous items in my car (top cowling, tailplanes, documentation, etc) and I was off to the border.
Border passage went ok, after GST and PST were perceived. Some concerns were present with regards to the homebuilt trailer, but they finally did decide that all was ok.
So, drove over at no more than 80 km/h to my home, where a friend helped to remove the port wing from its cradle, and attempt to put the trailer in my basement garage. It did fit ! Had the hacksaw all set up and ready to butcher the end wall of my garage. No need, thank goodness.
Now, I have gone through a bit all the stuff I received with the plane:
classic builder's manual (circa 1996), owner's manual, rotax manuals, radios manuals, builder's log w/ photo album, airframe log, and engine log.
Here are my questions:
1. The underside of A059 is all grimy. What product can I use to clean the fuselage ?
2. According to the fuel system schema, I do not have a return line. I however see a line going back from just before the port carburetor fuel intake (seemingly to a junction at the main tank outlet ?). Was there a mod that changed this ? Can I get access to it ?
3. I have the Classic fuel sight gauge with a clear tube going over a vertical hatched pattern to the right of the pilot's right knee. Is this system ok ? Should I only change the tubing to them blue tubes ?
4. Should I re-do all the fuel tubing, knowing that the aircraft first flew nearly 11 years ago ?
5. What's the best material to change the fuel filler tube ? It stinks... Anyone looked at Goodyear products ? What are the inner diameters involved ?
6. The ID plate of A059 is affixed on the removeable panel behind the baggage bay. Anyone did the same ? I think in Canada I'll get snagged on this.
7. Gascolators... I'm looking to install them new ACS high-pressure gascolators. My inspector told me over the phone to install only 1, and that it should typically be installed at the lowest point of the fuel system, which would be in level flight the lowest part of the firewall. Should I install it after the electrical pump, over there ? I see a lot of discussions here about twin gascolator setups.
8. Cabin and Carb heat: My rotax tech says the 912's carbs are already too hot, being on top of the rear cyl exhaust pipes, and that permanently adding heat to the carbs was asking for trouble, as the fuel could boil before the carbs. He is infact advocating for adding heat shields underneat the carbs, and bringing carb heat through a muffler shroud and an airbox. The Classic muffler has an embedded very short air heating shroud on its top front section. Anyone used this ? Is this hot enough for carb heat ? Is this even hot enough for cabin heat ?
9. Am I correct to understand that the electrical system does not use any solenoid for the master switch ?
10. A059 relies on fuses, should I replace with breakers ?
11. How do I keep the airframe standing when I want to remove the MLG to change the bungees ?
12. The surface of the wings is rather wobbly but no sign of delamination, Anything I should be looking out for ?
That a lot of questions. I hope some of you will find it in them to answer some of them.
I want to get this baby ready for inspection.
Then, I'll need to find a test pilot which will check out the airplane, and then transition-train me. Maybe that Decathlon aerobatics instructor ?
Regards,
Luc
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:29, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)>
On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Luc Michaud wrote:
| Quote: | By the way, I had 2 full inches of extra length in my garage for A059 on its trailer. So, with the spinner in place, we are talking of 19'6" on the trailer.
|
I've heard it said that 2" can make all the difference in the world...
BTW Luc, by what means did you end up getting the Europa up to CA?
Fred
do not archive
===========
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:10 am Post subject: C-GLOB |
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HI Luc, I suspect that many of your questions have been answered however I will share my thoughts:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Luc Michaud <rambug(at)gmail.com (rambug(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Now, I have gone through a bit all the stuff I received with the plane:
classic builder's manual (circa 1996), owner's manual, rotax manuals, radios manuals, builder's log w/ photo album, airframe log, and engine log.
|
Carefully check the airframe log against all of the Mandatory modifications published on the factory site. There will be many that need to be done on an older Europa Classic.
| Quote: |
Here are my questions:
1. The underside of A059 is all grimy. What product can I use to clean the fuselage ?
|
My paint is 2 part epoxy which is resistant most things. I use alcohol cut through grimy stuff and then soap and water.
| Quote: | 2. According to the fuel system schema, I do not have a return line. I however see a line going back from just before the port carburetor fuel intake (seemingly to a junction at the main tank outlet ?). Was there a mod that changed this ? Can I get access to it ?
|
Yes, you need to put a return line back to the tank
| Quote: | 3. I have the Classic fuel sight gauge with a clear tube going over a vertical hatched pattern to the right of the pilot's right knee. Is this system ok ? Should I only change the tubing to them blue tubes ?
|
I gave up trying to make my sight gauge work and I made a system designed by Tony K that weights the fuel. You will need some electronic assembly skills to build one. I did hear of a simpler approach where someone connected the sensor into there Grand Rapids EIS.
Other ideas that work are float gauges and capacitance probes in the tank.
| Quote: | 4. Should I re-do all the fuel tubing, knowing that the aircraft first flew nearly 11 years ago ?
|
Yes. I used automotive fuel injection hose. This type of hose is resistant to the additives found in Auto gas.
| Quote: | 5. What's the best material to change the fuel filler tube ? It stinks.. Anyone looked at Goodyear products ?
|
I used an aluminum elbow and short lengths of rubber hose.
| Quote: |
6. The ID plate of A059 is affixed on the removeable panel behind the baggage bay. Anyone did the same ? I think in Canada I'll get snagged on this.
|
The location will be dictated by CAA.
| Quote: | 7. Gascolators... I'm looking to install them new ACS high-pressure gascolators. My inspector told me over the phone to install only 1, and that it should typically be installed at the lowest point of the fuel system, which would be in level flight the lowest part of the firewall. Should I install it after the electrical pump, over there ? I see a lot of discussions here about twin gascolator setups.
|
There are several different opinions among the people on the forum on the idea fuel system design, but my opinion is to use parallel twin gascolator setups and not to use the purlolator filters.
| Quote: | 8. Cabin and Carb heat:
|
Skydirve make a nice carburetor heat system.
I live in North America and I find if it is a sunny day it is fine to fly in the winter, but I remember coming back from Memphis in January on an overcast day and we were miserably cold.
| Quote: | 9. Am I correct to understand that the electrical system does not use any solenoid for the master switch ?
|
Some designs use a heavy duty master disconnect switch. It saves on the current draw from a solenoid .
| Quote: |
10. A059 relies on fuses, should I replace with breakers ?
|
Automotive blade fuses are more reliable. If you have round glass fuses then they can potentially be a problem
| Quote: | 11. How do I keep the airframe standing when I want to remove the MLG to change the bungees ?
|
I made some dummy spars and supporting legs to attach to them for when I am working on my fuselage. Its a little bit of work but they have come in handy over the years.
| Quote: | 12. The surface of the wings is rather wobbly but no sign of delamination, Anything I should be looking out for ?
|
I am not sure if I understand this. If they are classic wings, then my first concern would be de lamination. Have you tried a 'tap test' to check. if not then I suppose its just an finish issue from when it was originally built.
Regards, Paul
[quote][b]
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brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:10 am Post subject: C-GLOB |
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|
Hi Luc,
I will try to answer some of your questions:
1. Cleaning - no real substitute for hot soapy water mixed with a small amount of parrafin/white spirit/kersosene to get rid of grime on the underside
2. If you use Mogas, a return line is mandatory in most countries. The normal configuration is a 6mm pipe teed off from near the port carb, back to the fuel tank outlet. By your description, it sounds like you have one fitted. Be careful if you change the hose. There is a flow restrictor pushed down inside the hose that must be recovered and pushed down the new hose..
3. The classic fuel sight gauge is OK as a gross error check but is heavily influenced by aircraft attitude. You really need a second method of knowing how much fuel you have.
4. If the rubber fuel pipes have not been changed since build, then it would be wise to change them. In most cases, normal automotive fuel injection hose works fine and easy to get hold of and not expensive. The two sizes needed are 8mm and 6mm or inches equivalent.
5. Not sure what the answer to the filler tube is on the classic. The XS Europa has the filler in a slightly different postion and used a fibre glass duct.
6. Dont know about ID plates in Canada.
7. The standard fit for fuel filters is to have a glass inline filter under the seat pan for both the main and reserve fuel supplies. A key design feature is to be able to switch quickly to the reserve and a clean filter if there is a problem with the main fuel supply. If you swich to gascolators try to preserve this design feature.
8. The UK regulatory authorities have approved the use of water heated carb heat on the Rotax engine. They would not have done this if it created problems. I have had no problem whatsoever with this arrangement. I do not have heat sheilds but many people do fit them.
9. Many Europas save the weight and complexity of a remotely operated battery master solenoid and simply use a racing car manully operated battery master switch. It works fine.
10. If the plane is already fitted with fuses I would leave well alone. I use contact breakers but there are pros and cons.
11. The aircraft can be supported by stands under the wings near the wing roots. Just make sure you spread the load with wood and carpet. If you want to remove the wings you will need a cradle or put something through the spar holes supported by stands either side.
12 I did not build a classic wing but I understand the leading edge profile is more critical than the overall wing surface If there is no delamination and it flies OK, leave well alone.
I hope that helps and I wish you luck and a lot of fun with your new toy.
Best regards
Brian Davies
The Europa Club, membership sec.
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Luc Michaud
Sent: 26 August 2010 05:51
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: C-GLOB
Here are my questions:
1. The underside of A059 is all grimy. What product can I use to clean the fuselage ?
2. According to the fuel system schema, I do not have a return line. I however see a line going back from just before the port carburetor fuel intake (seemingly to a junction at the main tank outlet ?). Was there a mod that changed this ? Can I get access to it ?
3. I have the Classic fuel sight gauge with a clear tube going over a vertical hatched pattern to the right of the pilot's right knee. Is this system ok ? Should I only change the tubing to them blue tubes ?
4. Should I re-do all the fuel tubing, knowing that the aircraft first flew nearly 11 years ago ?
5. What's the best material to change the fuel filler tube ? It stinks... Anyone looked at Goodyear products ? What are the inner diameters involved ?
6. The ID plate of A059 is affixed on the removeable panel behind the baggage bay. Anyone did the same ? I think in Canada I'll get snagged on this.
7. Gascolators... I'm looking to install them new ACS high-pressure gascolators. My inspector told me over the phone to install only 1, and that it should typically be installed at the lowest point of the fuel system, which would be in level flight the lowest part of the firewall. Should I install it after the electrical pump, over there ? I see a lot of discussions here about twin gascolator setups.
8. Cabin and Carb heat: My rotax tech says the 912's carbs are already too hot, being on top of the rear cyl exhaust pipes, and that permanently adding heat to the carbs was asking for trouble, as the fuel could boil before the carbs. He is infact advocating for adding heat shields underneat the carbs, and bringing carb heat through a muffler shroud and an airbox. The Classic muffler has an embedded very short air heating shroud on its top front section. Anyone used this ? Is this hot enough for carb heat ? Is this even hot enough for cabin heat ?
9. Am I correct to understand that the electrical system does not use any solenoid for the master switch ?
10. A059 relies on fuses, should I replace with breakers ?
11. How do I keep the airframe standing when I want to remove the MLG to change the bungees ?
12. The surface of the wings is rather wobbly but no sign of delamination, Anything I should be looking out for ?
That a lot of questions. I hope some of you will find it in them to answer some of them.
I want to get this baby ready for inspection.
Then, I'll need to find a test pilot which will check out the airplane, and then transition-train me. Maybe that Decathlon aerobatics instructor ?
Regards,
Luc
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:29, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)>
On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Luc Michaud wrote:
| Quote: | By the way, I had 2 full inches of extra length in my garage for A059 on its trailer. So, with the spinner in place, we are talking of 19'6" on the trailer.
|
I've heard it said that 2" can make all the difference in the world...
BTW Luc, by what means did you end up getting the Europa up to CA?
Fred
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