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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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 Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:34 pm Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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Hi Guys,,
Question:
Which fuel are you more likely to see water in, 100LL or our present day 91 Oct when you catch your sample down at the gascolator? Why?
p.s.
If you find it in one verses the other what should you do?
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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Roger, you didn't say whether the 91 octane mogas has ethanol in it or not, but I'm going to assume it has. Ethanol is hygroscopic, so it is the more likely to have water. If you find water in 100LL you drain it. Water in 91 means it has fallen out of solution in the gas so the best bet is to drain the tanks and lines and get new gas. I say that although I have just gone to the store and bought a can of Heet (pure ethanol gas line deicer) and dumped it in to put the water back in solution. In that case the gas was new, we were suffering from extremely high humidity (above 80%) for about 12 hours out of the day, and the aircraft had no fuel drain, just a clear filter where I could see the little bead of water. The HKS ran fine on it. The extra ethanol would have increased the octane of the fuel slightly and with a compression ratio of 11.3 to 1 it can use all the octane it can get.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Guys,,
Question:
Which fuel are you more likely to see water in, 100LL or our present day 91 Oct when you catch your sample down at the gascolator? Why?
p.s.
If you find it in one verses the other what should yo do?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311301#311301
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Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
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4.00 C gearbox
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Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Water in the fuel question |
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Hi Rick,
Your exactly right. The water in 100LL doesn't go into solution so you see it show up quick and the fuel is not H2O saturated. So if there was only a small amount in your sample tube then you shouldn't have any issues with the fuel retaining any water and the 100LL is ok to use.
The 91 Oct. with the ethanol that most of us have to use will suspend the water which isn't a big deal because the Rotax will just burn it through. If you see water in 91 Oct. with the ethanol then it's time to drain your tanks because that means the fuel is saturated to the point that it can't hold anymore and now the water is accumulating in quantity. So when 91 Oct gets that saturated with H2O that you can visibly see it at your drain point it's time to dump that fuel.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Water in the fuel question |
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Your observations about water absorption are correct, but I would not chuck the 91 octane E-10 with water at the bottom. Drain off the water as you would when found in 100LL.
Rationale:
If there was just enough water in the E-10 that the ethanol would absorb it all and no more (ethanol saturated with water), then you would not know it, and as you said the Rotax will handle it with no problem. How is this different from draining off the excess water that is not absorbed by the ethanol? No difference at all. None. Nada.
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Water in the fuel question |
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Hi Thom,
This is kind of ones of those thought provoking questions.
In theory you are right and it would burn through the engine, but it can cause other issues at total saturation.
My answer is from Rotax. This is what Rotax wants. The more water you have in the fuel the better chance of icing, corrosion within the engine and a higher than normal chance of falling out of solution at higher altitudes if it is that saturated. I have seen the pitting that water does internally and it is very noticeable if water has been sitting in the bottom of the carb bowl.
The 91 Oct. with ethanol with water will run through the engine, but at some point, Total saturation, other problems will emerge. So yes we can have some water in the fuel and not even know it and it will burn through and we won't even know, but at some point it can get to be too much and this is where Rotax draws the line.
I try to stick most of the time with what Rotax teaches in schools, but once in a while I do bend those rules, but I have to have solid research behind me or experience before I do bend those rules.
This item was one of our discussions in my Rotax update school. I just thought I would throw it out and see what popped up and hoped for some good conversations.
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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Roger:
Too many questions 
1 - 100LL should have the least amount of contaminates due to the SUPPOSED quality control.
2 - 100LL may have more water due to the DIFFERENT types of storage and the age of the tanks [above ground & below ground].
3 - 100LL may have more water due to the quantity of fuel being sold... Ever notice the airports will NEVER tell you how many gallons they sell a week.
4 - Some planes have much more of a problem with water than others. I have quite a few hours in a Piper Cherokee and Comanche as well as a RV6 and all three of them have the flush mounted gas caps. And all of them have water in the tanks.
I would LQQK first and blame first the gas cap before blaming the 100LL. It is a well know trick to put a patch of plastic Velcro On top of the gas cap and the other half on the inside of a 1 Lb coffee can lid. This does a lot to keep water out.
------------------------- AutoGas -------------------
5 - MoGas - Has it own problems - The first being The Cheep Ass - Money Grubbing - Low Life - Non-English speaking owners that put water into their tanks to cut price during Gas Wars. There was a gas station in my area that was closed by the Bureau of Weights & Measures for just that reason about one year after being closed because of illegal pumps (shorting the public). The next issue was water in the gas.
6 - MoGas - Probably does have higher levels of contaminates due to lower quality control of EVERYTHING from octant to transportation, storage and dispensing.
7 - MoGas - Should have lower contaminates due to the higher turn-over.
8 - MoGas - In my area the wise old government made it a requirement that ALL in-ground-tanks must be a fiberglass or plastic composition. This came to light when the wise old government made it a requirement that MTBE be used to reduce pollutant at the un-tested request of the EPA. The MTBE found all the small holes in the gas tanks and polluted the ground waters as well as making pump-jockeys sick. Now when theses pump-jockey's started reporting to hospitals for treatment the CDC (Center for Disease Control) was first contacted because of the wide spread and similarity of cases. Some financial saving that was!
9 - MoGas - and who else other than the wise old government made it a requirement in my area NJ-NY that ethanol be added to the gas. 10% less HP, 10% Less fuel economy and 100% more problems. Just ask the boating industry in coastal ares that ethanol is suppled.
OK! Enough - But, as Roger mentioned water is NOT absorbed. It IS held in SUSPENSION. And it takes about 15 minutes for water to come out of suspension, IF there is no movement. So, what does that tell you.... Checking your freshly filled tanks does not show if there is water in your gas. Of course, if there is enough water you sure will see it.
AND... Some one mentioned 'solution' it is NOT a solution, it is a suspension. There is NO chemical combining of water and gas. The ethanol IS in solution the water is in suspension. The ethanol in solution is a mixture, forming a total different compound.
Now, water can be a good thing... There is a way of ethanol removal from gas.
WATER - As someone did mention ethanol is hygroscopic. That means the ethanol will adsorb water. So...
Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
Shake it up...
Let it stand for 1 hour...
From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
Works in the lab all the time.
OK, sorry.... this is the end.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Guys,,
Question:
Which fuel are you more likely to see water in, 100LL or our present day 91 Oct when you catch your sample down at the gascolator? Why?
p.s.
If you find it in one verses the other what should yo do?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311301#311301
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
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kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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If you had enough water to cause separation of the alcohol the octane rating
would be reduced too, no?
Kevin, 914 Europa
| Quote: |
The 91 Oct. with ethanol with water will run through the engine, but at
some point, Total saturation, other problems will emerge. So yes we can
have some water in the fuel and not even know it and it will burn through
and we won't even know, but at some point it can get to be too much and
this is where Rotax draws the line.
I try to stick most of the time with what Rotax teaches in schools, but
once in a while I do bend those rules, but I have to have solid research
behind me or experience before I do bend those rules.
This item was one of our discussions in my Rotax update school. I just
thought I would throw it out and see what popped up and hoped for some
good conversations.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311567#311567
|
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Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:07 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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...and just think, we owe all this to our government. We have some great thinkers up there. I wonder what they'll think up next to justify their positions of bullshit.
In a message dated 9/6/2010 9:00:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyadive(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
Shake it up...
Let it stand for 1 hour...
From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
|
[quote][b]
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pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline without ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive away without any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon cans, but buying the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van would make that difficult.
I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have corresponded with a few of you online.
Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy used for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked a line at the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol into the jug. The pouring action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation from the mix. After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of the water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up any water. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.) I can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all over again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more water.
I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour with no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I am doing.
Pete
Kitfox III SN 1000
912
On 9/6/2010 7:56 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: [quote]Roger:
Too many questions
1 - 100LL should have the least amount of contaminates due to the SUPPOSED quality control.
2 - 100LL may have more water due to the DIFFERENT types of storage and the age of the tanks [above ground & below ground].
3 - 100LL may have more water due to the quantity of fuel being sold... Ever notice the airports will NEVER tell you how many gallons they sell a week.
4 - Some planes have much more of a problem with water than others. I have quite a few hours in a Piper Cherokee and Comanche as well as a RV6 and all three of them have the flush mounted gas caps. And all of them have water in the tanks.
I would LQQK first and blame first the gas cap before blaming the 100LL. It is a well know trick to put a patch of plastic Velcro On top of the gas cap and the other half on the inside of a 1 Lb coffee can lid. This does a lot to keep water out.
------------------------- AutoGas -------------------
5 - MoGas - Has it own problems - The first being The Cheep Ass - Money Grubbing - Low Life - Non-English speaking owners that put water into their tanks to cut price during Gas Wars. There was a gas station in my area that was closed by the Bureau of Weights & Measures for just that reason about one year after being closed because of illegal pumps (shorting the public). The next issue was water in the gas.
6 - MoGas - Probably does have higher levels of contaminates due to lower quality control of EVERYTHING from octant to transportation, storage and dispensing.
7 - MoGas - Should have lower contaminates due to the higher turn-over.
8 - MoGas - In my area the wise old government made it a requirement that ALL in-ground-tanks must be a fiberglass or plastic composition. This came to light when the wise old government made it a requirement that MTBE be used to reduce pollutant at the un-tested request of the EPA. The MTBE found all the small holes in the gas tanks and polluted the ground waters as well as making pump-jockeys sick. Now when theses pump-jockey's started reporting to hospitals for treatment the CDC (Center for Disease Control) was first contacted because of the wide spread and similarity of cases. Some financial saving that was!
9 - MoGas - and who else other than the wise old government made it a requirement in my area NJ-NY that ethanol be added to the gas. 10% less HP, 10% Less fuel economy and 100% more problems. Just ask the boating industry in coastal ares that ethanol is suppled.
OK! Enough - But, as Roger mentioned water is NOT absorbed. It IS held in SUSPENSION. And it takes about 15 minutes for water to come out of suspension, IF there is no movement. So, what does that tell you.... Checking your freshly filled tanks does not show if there is water in your gas. Of course, if there is enough water you sure will see it.
AND... Some one mentioned 'solution' it is NOT a solution, it is a suspension. There is NO chemical combining of water and gas. The ethanol IS in solution the water is in suspension. The ethanol in solution is a mixture, forming a total different compound.
Now, water can be a good thing... There is a way of ethanol removal from gas.
WATER - As someone did mention ethanol is hygroscopic. That means the ethanol will adsorb water. So...
Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
Shake it up...
Let it stand for 1 hour...
From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
Works in the lab all the time.
OK, sorry.... this is the end.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[b]
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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Pete- Since the ethanol raises the octane number, what would be the octane number of the processed gasoline? You may have to add an octane booster, but this might be ethanol- I don't know.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Kolb FS, 447
[quote][b]
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pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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Sorry I forgot to edit this sent previously. I have been washing gas since late June. I probably have used 50 or so gallons so far of pure washed gas with no problems. I now siphon my gas from my gas can into the bottom of the carboy so that It runs through the water in the bottom.. That seems to expose all of the gasoline to the water and thus removes the alcohol and avoids having to stir or shake the water/gas. I flew to Oshkosh and my first 3 hour leg was pure washed gas.
Pete
On 9/7/2010 9:13 AM, Pete Christensen wrote: [quote] Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline without ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive away without any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon cans, but buying the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van would make that difficult.
I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have corresponded with a few of you online.
Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy used for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked a line at the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol into the jug. The pouring action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation from the mix. After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of the water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up any water. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.) I can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all over again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more water.
I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour with no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I am doing.
Pete
Kitfox III SN 1000
912
On 9/6/2010 7:56 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: | Quote: | Roger:
Too many questions
1 - 100LL should have the least amount of contaminates due to the SUPPOSED quality control.
2 - 100LL may have more water due to the DIFFERENT types of storage and the age of the tanks [above ground & below ground].
3 - 100LL may have more water due to the quantity of fuel being sold... Ever notice the airports will NEVER tell you how many gallons they sell a week.
4 - Some planes have much more of a problem with water than others. I have quite a few hours in a Piper Cherokee and Comanche as well as a RV6 and all three of them have the flush mounted gas caps. And all of them have water in the tanks.
I would LQQK first and blame first the gas cap before blaming the 100LL. It is a well know trick to put a patch of plastic Velcro On top of the gas cap and the other half on the inside of a 1 Lb coffee can lid. This does a lot to keep water out.
------------------------- AutoGas -------------------
5 - MoGas - Has it own problems - The first being The Cheep Ass - Money Grubbing - Low Life - Non-English speaking owners that put water into their tanks to cut price during Gas Wars. There was a gas station in my area that was closed by the Bureau of Weights & Measures for just that reason about one year after being closed because of illegal pumps (shorting the public). The next issue was water in the gas.
6 - MoGas - Probably does have higher levels of contaminates due to lower quality control of EVERYTHING from octant to transportation, storage and dispensing.
7 - MoGas - Should have lower contaminates due to the higher turn-over.
8 - MoGas - In my area the wise old government made it a requirement that ALL in-ground-tanks must be a fiberglass or plastic composition. This came to light when the wise old government made it a requirement that MTBE be used to reduce pollutant at the un-tested request of the EPA. The MTBE found all the small holes in the gas tanks and polluted the ground waters as well as making pump-jockeys sick. Now when theses pump-jockey's started reporting to hospitals for treatment the CDC (Center for Disease Control) was first contacted because of the wide spread and similarity of cases. Some financial saving that was!
9 - MoGas - and who else other than the wise old government made it a requirement in my area NJ-NY that ethanol be added to the gas. 10% less HP, 10% Less fuel economy and 100% more problems. Just ask the boating industry in coastal ares that ethanol is suppled.
OK! Enough - But, as Roger mentioned water is NOT absorbed. It IS held in SUSPENSION. And it takes about 15 minutes for water to come out of suspension, IF there is no movement. So, what does that tell you.... Checking your freshly filled tanks does not show if there is water in your gas. Of course, if there is enough water you sure will see it.
AND... Some one mentioned 'solution' it is NOT a solution, it is a suspension. There is NO chemical combining of water and gas. The ethanol IS in solution the water is in suspension. The ethanol in solution is a mixture, forming a total different compound.
Now, water can be a good thing... There is a way of ethanol removal from gas.
WATER - As someone did mention ethanol is hygroscopic. That means the ethanol will adsorb water. So...
Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
Shake it up...
Let it stand for 1 hour...
From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
Works in the lab all the time.
OK, sorry.... this is the end.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
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[b]
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rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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I don't like "gasahol" as we used to call it either. But let's be
honest, nobody in the government came up with it. Credit the farm
lobby, because they want to sell corn, and the oil companies because the
want the subsidies for using the alcohol. The pols are too busy raising
money, perhaps from the farm lobby and oil lobby, to actually apply any
brain cells to this.
The only way we'll get rid of ethenol in gas and keep it where it should
be (bourbon!) is to replace it with some other biomass sourced product.
The two in favor right now are Swift Fuel and (I think) G1000. The FAA
needs to get off it's behind and get the ball rolling on these. That
would be a useful role for the government.
Ron
On 09/07/2010 10:06 AM, Blumax008(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | ...and just think, we owe all this to our government. We have some
great thinkers up there. I wonder what they'll think up next to
justify their positions of bullshit.
In a message dated 9/6/2010 9:00:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
flyadive(at)gmail.com writes:
Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
Shake it up...
Let it stand for 1 hour...
From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which
is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
*
*
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pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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|
I have an older 912 and I'm guessing that starting with 93 octane I end up with more than 87. Newer 912's need more octane than that.
Pete
On 9/7/2010 9:29 AM, william sullivan wrote: [quote] Pete- Since the ethanol raises the octane number, what would be the octane number of the processed gasoline? You may have to add an octane booster, but this might be ethanol- I don't know.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Kolb FS, 447
[b]
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rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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|
You are probably ok mixing with 100LL, but you do realize you are
lowering the octane rating by removing the ethanol?
I'd interested in hearing how the engine does with pure de-ethanoled gas.
My parents live in the farm belt where corn is king. A local gas
station there has "premium" gas that is cheaper than "regular"
unleaded. They just add more ethanol to it to raise the octane rating -
and of course suck up more tax dollar subsidies.
Ron
On 09/07/2010 10:13 AM, Pete Christensen wrote:
| Quote: | Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline
without ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive
away without any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon
cans, but buying the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van
would make that difficult.
I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have
corresponded with a few of you online.
Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy
used for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked
a line at the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of
high-test gasohol into the jug. The pouring action stimulates the
ethanol to begin separation from the mix. After awhile the
water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I mark a new line that
indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned gasoline. I use a
siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of the water/ethanol
leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up any water.
(Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.) I
can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts
all over again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I
siphon the water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little
more water.
I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter
Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no
detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour
with no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I
am doing.
Pete
Kitfox III SN 1000
912
On 9/6/2010 7:56 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Roger:
>
> Too many questions
>
> 1 - 100LL should have the least amount of contaminates due to
> the SUPPOSED quality control.
> 2 - 100LL may have more water due to the DIFFERENT types of storage
> and the age of the tanks [above ground & below ground].
> 3 - 100LL may have more water due to the quantity of fuel being
> sold... Ever notice the airports will NEVER tell you
> how many gallons they sell a week.
> 4 - Some planes have much more of a problem with water than others.
> I have quite a few hours in a Piper Cherokee and Comanche as well as
> a RV6 and all three of them have the flush mounted gas caps. And all
> of them have water in the tanks.
> I would LQQK first and blame first the gas cap before blaming the
> 100LL. It is a well know trick to put a patch of plastic Velcro On
> top of the gas cap and the other half on the inside of a 1 Lb coffee
> can lid. This does a lot to keep water out.
> ------------------------- AutoGas -------------------
> 5 - MoGas - Has it own problems - The first being The Cheep Ass -
> Money Grubbing - Low Life - Non-English speaking owners that put
> water into their tanks to cut price during Gas Wars. There was a gas
> station in my area that was closed by the Bureau of Weights &
> Measures for just that reason about one year after being closed
> because of illegal pumps (shorting the public). The next issue was
> water in the gas.
> 6 - MoGas - Probably does have higher levels of contaminates due to
> lower quality control of EVERYTHING from octant to transportation,
> storage and dispensing.
> 7 - MoGas - Should have lower contaminates due to the higher turn-over.
> 8 - MoGas - In my area the wise old government made it a requirement
> that ALL in-ground-tanks must be a fiberglass or plastic composition.
> This came to light when the wise old government made it a
> requirement that MTBE be used to reduce pollutant at the un-tested
> request of the EPA. The MTBE found all the small holes in the gas
> tanks and polluted the ground waters as well as making
> pump-jockeys sick. Now when theses pump-jockey's started reporting
> to hospitals for treatment the CDC (Center for Disease Control) was
> first contacted because of the wide spread and similarity of cases.
> Some financial saving that was!
> 9 - MoGas - and who else other than the wise old government made it a
> requirement in my area NJ-NY that ethanol be added to the gas. 10%
> less HP, 10% Less fuel economy and 100% more problems. Just ask the
> boating industry in coastal ares that ethanol is suppled.
>
> OK! Enough - But, as Roger mentioned water is NOT absorbed. It IS
> held in SUSPENSION. And it takes about 15 minutes for water to come
> out of suspension, IF there is no movement. So, what does that tell
> you.... Checking your freshly filled tanks does not show if there is
> water in your gas. Of course, if there is enough water you sure will
> see it.
>
> AND... Some one mentioned 'solution' it is NOT a solution, it is
> a suspension. There is NO chemical combining of water and gas.
> The ethanol IS in solution the water is in suspension.
> The ethanol in solution is a mixture, forming a total different
> compound.
>
> Now, water can be a good thing... There is a way of ethanol removal
> from gas.
> WATER - As someone did mention ethanol is hygroscopic. That means
> the ethanol will adsorb water. So...
> Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
> ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
> Shake it up...
> Let it stand for 1 hour...
> From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which
> is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
> Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
> Works in the lab all the time.
>
> OK, sorry.... this is the end.
>
> Barry
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com
> <mailto:ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>
> <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com <mailto:ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>>
>
> Hi Guys,,
>
> Question:
>
> Which fuel are you more likely to see water in, 100LL or our
> present day 91 Oct when you catch your sample down at the
> gascolator? Why?
>
> p.s.
> If you find it in one verses the other what should yo do?
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311301#311301
>
> ===========
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> ===========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ===========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===========
>
>
> *
> *
*
*
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Water in the fuel question |
|
|
| Thom Riddle wrote: | Your observations about water absorption are correct, but I would not chuck the 91 octane E-10 with water at the bottom. Drain off the water as you would when found in 100LL.
Rationale:
If there was just enough water in the E-10 that the ethanol would absorb it all and no more (ethanol saturated with water), then you would not know it, and as you said the Rotax will handle it with no problem. How is this different from draining off the excess water that is not absorbed by the ethanol? No difference at all. None. Nada. |
Just out of curiosity, since Rotax finally approved the use of E10 in all the engines (except the 447) a while back, why not just run the E10 and don't worry about it?
I'd have to reread the SB, but I don't believe there were any other qualifications as to having to replace parts or etc.
I run ethanol-free when I can find it, but I also ran E10 in my 912ULS for about the last year or so with no operational differences over E0 or 100LL at all. Even up to 10,000' MSL I didn't have any running problems that I could tell.
It's true you have to be vigilant about water, which may be a bit more fooling around for folks who live in humid or wet areas.
And no, there's no possibility of ever convincing the gubbamint that ethanol is _not_ a renewable fuel (because it's not sustainable) and we'll run out of petrolium faster by trying to substitute ethanol than we would if we simply burned the other 10% of the gas in our engines instead. So we really can just forget about that ever happening.
Also, trying to remove the ethanol gives you a gas with some unknown octane rating, doesn't it? I.e. ethanol is an octane booster which is probably how they're able to sell lower octane gas as high-test because of the ethanol.
Sure, when they go to 15% we'll be right back at square 1 again, but for the meantime, seems to me the simplest solution is to just use the E10 and keep the sump drained....
LS
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_________________
LS
Titan II SS |
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
|
|
I would be carefull of using octane boosters. I had a tall skinny plastic bottle that I would use to test for alcohol in the gas. I used that bottle lots of times with no ill effects to the plastic. I put some pieces of fresh fiberglass in the bottle and put some gas in the bottle that had Justice Brothers octane booster in it. I wanted to see if the booster would hurt the fiberglass. A day later, the plastic bottle was softening to the point that is started to leak near the bottom. The fiberglass was not affected, but the plastic sure was. I never used that octane booster again. Of course different boosters have different chemicals in them so maybe others might not hurt the plastic. Fortunatly, up here in Mn we can get non oxigenated premium gas at about 1/4 of the gas stations so that's what I burn in my planes. Take care, Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 (building) Mn
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 07:29:18 -0700
From: williamtsullivan(at)att.net
Subject: Re: Water in the fuel question
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Pete- Since the ethanol raises the octane number, what would be the octane number of the processed gasoline? You may have to add an octane booster, but this might be ethanol- I don't know.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Kolb FS, 447
[quote]
-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
|
|
Ron,
So far I notice no problems with washed gas. Had someone recommend
adding Sta Bil so just I started doing that with the last 5 gallons I
used. It is supposed to stabilize the gasoline. I fly one or 2 hours a
week with an occasional 2 to 4 hours.
Pete
On 9/7/2010 9:52 AM, Ron Steele wrote:
| Quote: |
You are probably ok mixing with 100LL, but you do realize you are
lowering the octane rating by removing the ethanol?
I'd interested in hearing how the engine does with pure de-ethanoled gas.
My parents live in the farm belt where corn is king. A local gas
station there has "premium" gas that is cheaper than "regular"
unleaded. They just add more ethanol to it to raise the octane rating
- and of course suck up more tax dollar subsidies.
Ron
On 09/07/2010 10:13 AM, Pete Christensen wrote:
> Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
>
> In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline
> without ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive
> away without any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon
> cans, but buying the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van
> would make that difficult.
>
> I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have
> corresponded with a few of you online.
>
> Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy
> used for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked
> a line at the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of
> high-test gasohol into the jug. The pouring action stimulates the
> ethanol to begin separation from the mix. After awhile the
> water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I mark a new line that
> indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned gasoline. I use a
> siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of the
> water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning
> up any water. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from
> the jug.) I can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the
> process starts all over again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol
> builds up, I siphon the water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and
> add a little more water.
>
> I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel
> Filter Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I
> found no detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
>
> I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
>
> I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an
> hour with no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
>
> I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I
> am doing.
>
> Pete
>
> Kitfox III SN 1000
>
> 912
>
> On 9/6/2010 7:56 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>> Roger:
>>
>> Too many questions
>>
>> 1 - 100LL should have the least amount of contaminates due to the
>> SUPPOSED quality control.
>> 2 - 100LL may have more water due to the DIFFERENT types of storage
>> and the age of the tanks [above ground & below ground].
>> 3 - 100LL may have more water due to the quantity of fuel being
>> sold... Ever notice the airports will NEVER tell you how many
>> gallons they sell a week.
>> 4 - Some planes have much more of a problem with water than others.
>> I have quite a few hours in a Piper Cherokee and Comanche as well
>> as a RV6 and all three of them have the flush mounted gas caps. And
>> all of them have water in the tanks.
>> I would LQQK first and blame first the gas cap before blaming the
>> 100LL. It is a well know trick to put a patch of plastic Velcro On
>> top of the gas cap and the other half on the inside of a 1 Lb coffee
>> can lid. This does a lot to keep water out.
>> ------------------------- AutoGas -------------------
>> 5 - MoGas - Has it own problems - The first being The Cheep Ass -
>> Money Grubbing - Low Life - Non-English speaking owners that put
>> water into their tanks to cut price during Gas Wars. There was a
>> gas station in my area that was closed by the Bureau of Weights &
>> Measures for just that reason about one year after being closed
>> because of illegal pumps (shorting the public). The next issue was
>> water in the gas.
>> 6 - MoGas - Probably does have higher levels of contaminates due to
>> lower quality control of EVERYTHING from octant to transportation,
>> storage and dispensing.
>> 7 - MoGas - Should have lower contaminates due to the higher turn-over.
>> 8 - MoGas - In my area the wise old government made it a requirement
>> that ALL in-ground-tanks must be a fiberglass or plastic
>> composition. This came to light when the wise old government made
>> it a requirement that MTBE be used to reduce pollutant at the
>> un-tested request of the EPA. The MTBE found all the small holes in
>> the gas tanks and polluted the ground waters as well as making
>> pump-jockeys sick. Now when theses pump-jockey's started reporting
>> to hospitals for treatment the CDC (Center for Disease Control) was
>> first contacted because of the wide spread and similarity of cases.
>> Some financial saving that was!
>> 9 - MoGas - and who else other than the wise old government made it
>> a requirement in my area NJ-NY that ethanol be added to the gas.
>> 10% less HP, 10% Less fuel economy and 100% more problems. Just ask
>> the boating industry in coastal ares that ethanol is suppled.
>>
>> OK! Enough - But, as Roger mentioned water is NOT absorbed. It IS
>> held in SUSPENSION. And it takes about 15 minutes for water to come
>> out of suspension, IF there is no movement. So, what does that tell
>> you.... Checking your freshly filled tanks does not show if there is
>> water in your gas. Of course, if there is enough water you sure
>> will see it.
>>
>> AND... Some one mentioned 'solution' it is NOT a solution, it is a
>> suspension. There is NO chemical combining of water and gas. The
>> ethanol IS in solution the water is in suspension. The ethanol in
>> solution is a mixture, forming a total different compound.
>>
>> Now, water can be a good thing... There is a way of ethanol removal
>> from gas.
>> WATER - As someone did mention ethanol is hygroscopic. That means
>> the ethanol will adsorb water. So...
>> Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
>> ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
>> Shake it up...
>> Let it stand for 1 hour...
>> From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which is
>> heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
>> Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
>> Works in the lab all the time.
>>
>> OK, sorry.... this is the end.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com
>> <mailto:ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com <mailto:ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,,
>>
>> Question:
>>
>> Which fuel are you more likely to see water in, 100LL or our
>> present day 91 Oct when you catch your sample down at the
>> gascolator? Why?
>>
>> p.s.
>> If you find it in one verses the other what should yo do?
>>
>> --------
>> Roger Lee
>> Tucson, Az.
>> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
>> Rotax Repair Center
>> 520-574-1080
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311301#311301
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ===========
>> -List"
>>
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> ===========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
> *
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pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
|
|
THE ONLY REASON that I wash my gas is because I have a fiberglass fuel
tanks that may or may not be ok for alcohol and I hate doing 25 hour oil
changes with 100LL.
Pete
On 9/7/2010 10:05 AM, lucien wrote:
| Quote: |
Thom Riddle wrote:
> Your observations about water absorption are correct, but I would not chuck the 91 octane E-10 with water at the bottom. Drain off the water as you would when found in 100LL.
>
> Rationale:
> If there was just enough water in the E-10 that the ethanol would absorb it all and no more (ethanol saturated with water), then you would not know it, and as you said the Rotax will handle it with no problem. How is this different from draining off the excess water that is not absorbed by the ethanol? No difference at all. None. Nada.
Just out of curiosity, since Rotax finally approved the use of E10 in all the engines (except the 447) a while back, why not just run the E10 and don't worry about it?
I'd have to reread the SB, but I don't believe there were any other qualifications as to having to replace parts or etc.
I run ethanol-free when I can find it, but I also ran E10 in my 912ULS for about the last year or so with no operational differences over E0 or 100LL at all. Even up to 10,000' MSL I didn't have any running problems that I could tell.
It's true you have to be vigilant about water, which may be a bit more fooling around for folks who live in humid or wet areas.
And no, there's no possibility of ever convincing the gubbamint that ethanol is _not_ a renewable fuel (because it's not sustainable) and we'll run out of petrolium faster by trying to substitute ethanol than we would if we simply burned the other 10% of the gas in our engines instead. So we really can just forget about that ever happening.
Also, trying to remove the ethanol gives you a gas with some unknown octane rating, doesn't it? I.e. ethanol is an octane booster which is probably how they're able to sell lower octane gas as high-test because of the ethanol.
Sure, when they go to 15% we'll be right back at square 1 again, but for the meantime, seems to me the simplest solution is to just use the E10 and keep the sump drained....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311678#311678
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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
|
|
Pete
I find your procedure interesting.
Will you please explain to a non-American, non-native English speaking guy, what is a CARBOY?
TIA
Carlos
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Christensen
Sent: terça-feira, 7 de Setembro de 2010 15:34
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Water in the fuel question
Sorry I forgot to edit this sent previously. I have been washing gas since late June. I probably have used 50 or so gallons so far of pure washed gas with no problems. I now siphon my gas from my gas can into the bottom of the carboy so that It runs through the water in the bottom.. That seems to expose all of the gasoline to the water and thus removes the alcohol and avoids having to stir or shake the water/gas. I flew to Oshkosh and my first 3 hour leg was pure washed gas.
Pete
On 9/7/2010 9:13 AM, Pete Christensen wrote:
Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline without ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive away without any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon cans, but buying the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van would make that difficult.
I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have corresponded with a few of you online.
Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy used for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked a line at the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol into the jug. The pouring action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation from the mix. After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of the water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up any water. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.) I can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all over again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more water.
I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour with no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I am doing.
Pete
Kitfox III SN 1000
912
On 9/6/2010 7:56 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Roger:
Too many questions
1 - 100LL should have the least amount of contaminates due to the SUPPOSED quality control.
2 - 100LL may have more water due to the DIFFERENT types of storage and the age of the tanks [above ground & below ground].
3 - 100LL may have more water due to the quantity of fuel being sold... Ever notice the airports will NEVER tell you how many gallons they sell a week.
4 - Some planes have much more of a problem with water than others. I have quite a few hours in a Piper Cherokee and Comanche as well as a RV6 and all three of them have the flush mounted gas caps. And all of them have water in the tanks.
I would LQQK first and blame first the gas cap before blaming the 100LL. It is a well know trick to put a patch of plastic Velcro On top of the gas cap and the other half on the inside of a 1 Lb coffee can lid. This does a lot to keep water out.
------------------------- AutoGas -------------------
5 - MoGas - Has it own problems - The first being The Cheep Ass - Money Grubbing - Low Life - Non-English speaking owners that put water into their tanks to cut price during Gas Wars. There was a gas station in my area that was closed by the Bureau of Weights & Measures for just that reason about one year after being closed because of illegal pumps (shorting the public). The next issue was water in the gas.
6 - MoGas - Probably does have higher levels of contaminates due to lower quality control of EVERYTHING from octant to transportation, storage and dispensing.
7 - MoGas - Should have lower contaminates due to the higher turn-over.
8 - MoGas - In my area the wise old government made it a requirement that ALL in-ground-tanks must be a fiberglass or plastic composition. This came to light when the wise old government made it a requirement that MTBE be used to reduce pollutant at the un-tested request of the EPA. The MTBE found all the small holes in the gas tanks and polluted the ground waters as well as making pump-jockeys sick. Now when theses pump-jockey's started reporting to hospitals for treatment the CDC (Center for Disease Control) was first contacted because of the wide spread and similarity of cases. Some financial saving that was!
9 - MoGas - and who else other than the wise old government made it a requirement in my area NJ-NY that ethanol be added to the gas. 10% less HP, 10% Less fuel economy and 100% more problems. Just ask the boating industry in coastal ares that ethanol is suppled.
OK! Enough - But, as Roger mentioned water is NOT absorbed. It IS held in SUSPENSION. And it takes about 15 minutes for water to come out of suspension, IF there is no movement. So, what does that tell you.... Checking your freshly filled tanks does not show if there is water in your gas. Of course, if there is enough water you sure will see it.
AND... Some one mentioned 'solution' it is NOT a solution, it is a suspension. There is NO chemical combining of water and gas. The ethanol IS in solution the water is in suspension. The ethanol in solution is a mixture, forming a total different compound.
Now, water can be a good thing... There is a way of ethanol removal from gas.
WATER - As someone did mention ethanol is hygroscopic. That means the ethanol will adsorb water. So...
Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
Shake it up...
Let it stand for 1 hour...
From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
Works in the lab all the time.
OK, sorry.... this is the end.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Guys,,
Question:
Which fuel are you more likely to see water in, 100LL or our present day 91 Oct when you catch your sample down at the gascolator? Why?
p.s.
If you find it in one verses the other what should yo do?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311301#311301
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:45 am Post subject: Water in the fuel question |
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Carlos,
Go to Wikipedia & search on "carboy".
Bob
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 7, 2010, at 11:41, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Pete
I find your procedure interesting.
Will you please explain to a non-American, non-native English speaking guy, what is a CARBOY?
TIA
Carlos
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