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grumman wing

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amdymond(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: grumman wing

Hi Gang, 

First off, I don’t have a Grumman but I wish I did.  Almost have the wife talked into this … you know how that goes… 

I do have a question.  I’m in a flying club at Concord, CA, just down the road from Gary.  One of the guys just put a significant hole in the leading edge of the wing of our Archer.  The FAA threw a fit and wouldn’t allow a ferry permit so the wing went off on a truck to the shop.  

So I’m talking to some of the folks and they tell me It’s no big deal -- it’s easy to get a replacement skin for a Cherokee and reskin the wing.  Then I ask about the same situation in a Tiger – and they tell me it is a big deal and I would have to look at junkyards all over the country and buy a wing.  Then someone else tells me most shops won’t work on this because of the bonded construction  

What’s the real story -- what would you do if someone knocked a hole in the wing? Regards,

Tony D

  

  [quote][b]

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: grumman wing

On 9/3/2010 12:24 AM, Anthony Dymond wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		         

Hi Gang,       

First off, I don’t have a Grumman but I wish I did.  Almost         have the wife talked into this … you know how that goes…       

I do have a question.  I’m in a flying club at Concord, CA,         just down the road from Gary.  One of the guys just put a         significant hole in the leading edge of the wing of our Archer.          The FAA threw a fit and wouldn’t allow a ferry permit so the         wing went off on a truck to the shop.       

So I’m talking to some of the folks and they tell me It’s no         big deal -- it’s easy to get a replacement skin for a Cherokee         and reskin the wing.  Then I ask about the same situation in a         Tiger – and they tell me it is a big deal and I would have to         look at junkyards all over the country and buy a wing.     	
     Really only one place to go  ..... Fletchair.  Supports our whole     fleet ..... and yes, us too.

      	  Quote: 	
		         

  Then someone else tells me most shops won’t work on this         because of the bonded construction     	
     Only inferior shops have a problem.  Fletchair will reskin it.

      	  Quote: 	
		         

What’s the real story -- what would you do if someone knocked a         hole in the wing?     	
     Hmmmm.  An eye for an eye ......... 

     Linn

     

     Truthfully, you'll get better answers from those more qualified.

     Linn

     

     

     You'll

     [quote]       Regards,

         Tony D

        

        	  Quote: 	
		  



om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

s.com">http://forums.matronics.com

om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
     [b]

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garnerrice(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: grumman wing

Several years ago, a tiger out of Tulsa rand off the runway and smashed the inboard panel. The tanks would not hole fuel. Pour it in and it would pour right out. We sent a pilot (who now works for the FAA) up there and got a ferry permit and flew it back. Fixed the plane and returned it back. 

  

 A year or so ago there was a traveler that had a tanks leak and the FAA didn't want to issue a ferry permit on the basis it wan't safe to fly. I had that fed talk to the the fed that did the ferry flight with the smashed wing. Got the ferry permit and flew it here for the repair.

  

 Typically when the FAA doesn't understand the situation or construction, they will opt to the side of safety, ( a plane not in the air is safer than one in the air) The Grumman wings are non-structural. I think the owner should expected an educated response from the FAA of what they base their answers on, and in writing. They have clear cut regulations and orders that they must follow. Since we are paying them, I dont think it is too much to ask. 

  

 I just drove to 1700 miles to pick up a grumman. One wing had a hole and the other had a dent. If it wasn't for the bent propeller, I would have not hesitated to get a ferry permit and fly it instead of hauling it.

  

 The old cliche " education is expensive, but ignorance is costly". The shop that gave the original estimate was about 20k more than our estimate, not because they are a bad shop, they are a good shop,  but because they lacked "grumman experience". That estimate could have totaled the aircraft, leaving the owner with a check and planeless. Threre are a lot of shops that are afraid of the bonded construction and I think it is just because of lack of experience and not because of any complexity of construction.

  

 The key to grumman success, spend the time and money up front so you dont spend time and money. Dont defer maintenance, and oh yes, learn to fly a grumman. 

  

 Garner

 FletchAir

 

 

 

   Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 00:48:41 -0400

From: pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: grumman wing



 On 9/3/2010 12:24 AM, Anthony Dymond wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Gang,

 First off, I don’t have a Grumman but I wish I did.  Almost have the wife talked into this … you know how that goes…

 I do have a question.  I’m in a flying club at Concord, CA, just down the road from Gary.  One of the guys just put a significant hole in the leading edge of the wing of our Archer.  The FAA threw a fit and wouldn’t allow a ferry permit so the wing went off on a truck to the shop.

 So I’m talking to some of the folks and they tell me It’s no big deal -- it’s easy to get a replacement skin for a Cherokee and reskin the wing.  Then I ask about the same situation in a Tiger – and they tell me it is a big deal and I would have to look at junkyards all over the country and buy a wing.

	
Really only one place to go  ..... Fletchair.  Supports our whole fleet ..... and yes, us too.

  	  Quote: 	
		     Then someone else tells me most shops won’t work on this because of the bonded construction

	
Only inferior shops have a problem.  Fletchair will reskin it.

  	  Quote: 	
		   What’s the real story -- what would you do if someone knocked a hole in the wing?

	
Hmmmm.  An eye for an eye ......... 

Linn



Truthfully, you'll get better answers from those more qualified.

Linn

You'll

 [quote] Regards,

Tony D

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  



om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

s.com">http://forums.matronics.com

om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: grumman wing

I've seen entire Tigers/Cheetahs riveted back together.  It isn't pretty, but anything is possible.  

To repair a hole, there is a section in the maintenance manual that details how to build a doubler and patch.  It really isn't that big of a deal.  

Fletcher has reskinned entire wings.

Come on up to Auburn and I'll show you a partially disassembled wing.

Gary



From: Anthony Dymond  <amdymond(at)gmail.com>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 9:24:24 PM

Subject: grumman wing



 

Hi Gang, 

First off, I donâ€™t have a Grumman but I wish I did.  Almost have the wife talked into this â€¦ you know how that goesâ€¦ 

I do have a question.  Iâ€™m in a flying club at Concord, CA, just down the road from Gary.  One of the guys just put a significant hole in the leading edge of the wing of our Archer.  The FAA threw a fit and wouldnâ€™t allow a ferry permit so the wing went off on a truck to the shop.  

So Iâ€™m talking to some of the folks and they tell me Itâ€™s no big deal -- itâ€™s easy to get a replacement skin for a Cherokee and reskin the wing.  Then I ask about the same situation in a Tiger â€“ and they tell me it is a big deal and I would have to look at junkyards all over the country and buy a wing.  Then someone else tells me most shops wonâ€™t work on this because of the bonded construction  

Whatâ€™s the real story -- what would you do if someone knocked a hole in the wing? Regards,

Tony D

  

   	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matarget="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matron--> =


	


   



         [quote][b]

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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: grumman wing

Typically when the FAA doesn't understand the  situation or construction, they will opt to the side of safety, ( a plane not in  the air is safer than one in the air) The Grumman wings are non-structural. I  think the owner should expected an educated response from the FAA of what they  base their answers on, and in writing. They have clear cut regulations and  orders that they must follow. Since we are paying them, I dont think it is too  much to ask. 



 I don't see why the FAA has to be involved  other that to issue the Ferry Permit.  Just tell them the plane needs to be  moved to a location where and inspection and maintenance can be done.  It's  the A&P that has to sign the log book stating that the plane is safe for the  intended flight.  One leaking fuel tank is no big deal.  Just fly on  the other one.  Heck, there are lots of planes flying around with only one  fuel tank.

  

 Cliff

 [quote] [b]

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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: grumman wing

 

What’s the real story -- what would you do if someone knocked a hole in the  wing? 

Depends on where it is and how extensive the damage was.  For a  small area I would cut out the damage, flush rivet a doubler and make a flush  patch that could be flush riveted to the doubler.  Same as you would do for  any other aluminum skin plane.  Or an entire section could be reskinned as  Fletchair does on a regular basis. 

Cliff

 [quote]   ---

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amdymond(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: grumman wing

Thanks, everyone.  It’s great to have the Gang’s expertise available to get to the true answer.  It sounds like wing damage isn’t much more of an issue in a Grumman than in other aircraft. 

  

 Regards,

TonyD

 

 

 On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Anthony Dymond <amdymond(at)gmail.com (amdymond(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote] 

Hi Gang, 

First off, I don’t have a Grumman but I wish I did.  Almost have the wife talked into this … you know how that goes… 

I do have a question.  I’m in a flying club at Concord, CA, just down the road from Gary.  One of the guys just put a significant hole in the leading edge of the wing of our Archer.  The FAA threw a fit and wouldn’t allow a ferry permit so the wing went off on a truck to the shop.  

So I’m talking to some of the folks and they tell me It’s no big deal -- it’s easy to get a replacement skin for a Cherokee and reskin the wing.  Then I ask about the same situation in a Tiger – and they tell me it is a big deal and I would have to look at junkyards all over the country and buy a wing.  Then someone else tells me most shops won’t work on this because of the bonded construction  

What’s the real story -- what would you do if someone knocked a hole in the wing? Regards,

Tony D

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  



st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: grumman wing

Actually it is.  Any old shop can repair a Cessna  or Piper, but there are very few shops that will even attempt to repair a  Grumman.  Also the wing skins on a Grumman wrap from the rear spar around  the leading edge and to the rear spar again.  Whereas other planes skins  are more modular and have lap joints.  There may be several skins from  front to back.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

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amdymond(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: grumman wing

So I'm starting to think of the Grumman like my Triumph TR250 roadster.

There are only a couple of companies making parts and there are only a

couple of shops I would let touch it.  But as long as there are those

companies and shops, I'm fairly comfortable about keeping it going.  And, it

sure beats the heck out of an MG.



Regards,

TonyD

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 5:39 PM, flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> wrote:



[quote]  *Actually it is.  Any old shop can repair a Cessna or Piper, but there

 are very few shops that will even attempt to repair a Grumman.  Also the

 wing skins on a Grumman wrap from the rear spar around the leading edge and

 to the rear spar again.  Whereas other planes skins are more modular and

 have lap joints.  There may be several skins from front to back.*

 **

 *Cliff*



  ---

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