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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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This is from FAA.gov Aircraft Certification: Light Sport Aircraft Registration
New Light-Sport Aircraft
If you purchased a newly manufactured Light-Sport aircraft that is to be certificated asThen you must provide the following: - Light-Sport Aircraft Manufacturer‘s Affidavit AC Form 8050-88A (02/0
 (PDF, 56 KB), or its equivalent, completed by the light-sport aircraft manufacturer, unless previously submitted to the Registry by the manufacturer - Evidence of ownership from the manufacturer for the aircraft
- An Aircraft Registration Application, AC Form 8050-1
- $5.00 registration fee
New Light-Sport Aircraft Manufactures
If you are the manufacturer of a new Light-Sport Aircraft that you will certificate as:Then you must provide the following: - Light-Sport Aircraft Manufacturer‘s Affidavit AC Form 8050-88A (02/0 (PDF, 56 KB), or its equivalent, completed by the light-sport aircraft manufacturer, unless previously submitted to the Registry by the manufacturer
- An Aircraft Registration Application, AC Form 8050-1
- $5.00 registration fee by check or money order made payable to the Federal Aviation Administration.
Now you can see why failing to re-register your E-LSA is fatal. Form 8050-88A has been revised and now only offers two options, that the aircraft meets FAR 21.190, or FAR 21.191 i (2).
Rick Girard
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Follow up on registration information |
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Hi Rick,
I need to call Edsel Ford of the FAA tomorrow and get the top of the food chain FAA answer. This one really needs clearing up for all the guys with the Ultralights that converted to ELSA.
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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bob(at)fly-ul.com
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:47 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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On Sep 9, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Now you can see why failing to re-register your E-LSA is fatal. Form 8050-88A has been revised and now only offers two options, that the aircraft meets FAR 21.190, or FAR 21.191 i (2).
Rick Girard
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That form is for initial airworthiness but I don't think it's
used for the three year renewals.
[quote][b]
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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Roger, That's where my info came from. The only thing I can't figure out is why the registration info that was updated in August still references 21.191 i(1) which has expried. Bottom line is still, don't fail to re-register.
Rick
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Rick,
I need to call Edsel Ford of the FAA tomorrow and get the top of the food chain FAA answer. This one really needs clearing up for all the guys with the Ultralights that converted to ELSA.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311995#311995
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--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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True. My point is, if you fail to re-register, this is the paperwork that will make it impossible to get back in.
Rick
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bob Comperini <bob(at)fly-ul.com (bob(at)fly-ul.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sep 9, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Now you can see why failing to re-register your E-LSA is fatal. Form 8050-88A has been revised and now only offers two options, that the aircraft meets FAR 21.190, or FAR 21.191 i (2).
Rick Girard
|
That form is for initial airworthiness but I don't think it's
used for the three year renewals.
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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bob(at)fly-ul.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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No. I disagree. I allege thato the 8050-88 is not used again. That is not a "registration application".
--Bob Comperini
On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:04 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]True. My point is, if you fail to re-register, this is the paperwork that will make it impossible to get back in.
Rick
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bob Comperini <[url=mailto:bob(at)fly-ul.com]bob(at)fly-ul.com (bob(at)fly-ul.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sep 9, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Richard Girard <[url=mailto:aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com]aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: |
Now you can see why failing to re-register your E-LSA is fatal. Form 8050-88A has been revised and now only offers two options, that the aircraft meets FAR 21.190, or FAR 21.191 i (2).
Rick Girard
|
That form is for initial airworthiness but I don't think it's
used for the three year renewals.
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[b]
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Follow up on registration information |
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Hi Rick,
I agree whole heartedly that the bottom line no matter what category you are in within the aviation world is don't play with these people because they hold all the cards. Loosing your registration along with all the other repercussions of loosing it will be the biggest headache you ever had. It's easy enough to do and it's for a good cause and let's hope it works as well as the FAA thinks it will. So for me it's get'er done and move on.
This way I can cut back on the Ibuprofen.
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
|
_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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Bob, Reread the FAA requirements for an initial registration, 8050-88A IS required. If you fail to re-register on time, you have to start the registration process over and those who used the FAR 21.191 i (1) route to registration cannot meet the 21.191 i (2) or 21.190 requirements of 8050-88A.
Rick
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Bob Comperini <bob(at)fly-ul.com (bob(at)fly-ul.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | No. I disagree. I allege thato the 8050-88 is not used again. That is not a "registration application".
--Bob Comperini
On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:04 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | True. My point is, if you fail to re-register, this is the paperwork that will make it impossible to get back in.
Rick
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bob Comperini < (bob(at)fly-ul.com)bob(at)fly-ul.com (bob(at)fly-ul.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sep 9, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Richard Girard < (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Now you can see why failing to re-register your E-LSA is fatal. Form 8050-88A has been revised and now only offers two options, that the aircraft meets FAR 21.190, or FAR 21.191 i (2).
Rick Girard
|
That form is for initial airworthiness but I don't think it's
used for the three year renewals.
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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|
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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|
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
|
_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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bob(at)fly-ul.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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On Sep 10, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, Reread the FAA requirements for an initial registration, 8050-88A IS required. If you fail to re-register on time, you have to start the registration process over and those who used the FAR 21.191 i (1) route to registration cannot meet the 21.191 i (2) or 21.190 requirements of 8050-88A.
Rick
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Hi Rick. Yes we all agree that people need to re-register But if you do happen to let the registration lapse, I don't think the process is same as the "initial" registration which did require that 8050-88 form. That's all I was saying. When you sell a plane you don't need the 88 form since registration already exists. Normally it's the 8050-1 that is used to apply for registration. I suspect some new version of the -1 form will be used for this 3 year re-registration. If you miss the date, the registration and N-numbers are still yours....at least for some amount of time. If you look at the FAA website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/) you will see that indeed they have come up with a new version of the 8050-1. There is no mention of the 8050-88, and there is mention of how to re-register if the registration has expired.
Again I agree we all need to do this, but I don't think a person is immediately screwed forever if they happen to miss the date. Of course they would be grounded until all the paperwork is current again. And at some point (90 days?) after expiration, yes I would expect the FAA to just cancel a registration, assuming that aircraft is no longer flying
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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Bob, First of all you keep mentioning form 8050-88. This is not the form in question. 8050-88 is used to register experimental amateur built aircraft. It is form 8050-88A that is used for light sport aircraft. It is an Affidavit of Ownership and must be notarized and sent in WITH 8050-1 to complete the registration process. 8050-88A has, as I've previously stated, has been revised and now only offers two methods to registration, through FAR 21.190 or FAR 21.191 i(2). If you don't meet those requirements you cannot get a registration as an E-LSA. You are free to believe anything you want, but a quick call to the Light Sport Branch will get you the same answer I got. If you fail to re-register your Experimental Light Sport Aircraft by the deadline on the form you are sent, there is no path back at this time. Hopefully the EAA can work with the feds to make a method available, but right now there is not.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Bob Comperini <bob(at)fly-ul.com (bob(at)fly-ul.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sep 10, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, Reread the FAA requirements for an initial registration, 8050-88A IS required. If you fail to re-register on time, you have to start the registration process over and those who used the FAR 21.191 i (1) route to registration cannot meet the 21.191 i (2) or 21.190 requirements of 8050-88A.
Rick
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Hi Rick. Yes we all agree that people need to re-register But if you do happen to let the registration lapse, I don't think the process is same as the "initial" registration which did require that 8050-88 form. That's all I was saying. When you sell a plane you don't need the 88 form since registration already exists. Normally it's the 8050-1 that is used to apply for registration. I suspect some new version of the -1 form will be used for this 3 year re-registration. If you miss the date, the registration and N-numbers are still yours....at least for some amount of time. If you look at the FAA website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/) you will see that indeed they have come up with a new version of the 8050-1. There is no mention of the 8050-88, and there is mention of how to re-register if the registration has expired.
Again I agree we all need to do this, but I don't think a person is immediately screwed forever if they happen to miss the date. Of course they would be grounded until all the paperwork is current again. And at some point (90 days?) after expiration, yes I would expect the FAA to just cancel a registration, assuming that aircraft is no longer flying
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
===========
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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bob(at)fly-ul.com
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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On 02:52 PM 9/10/2010, Richard Girard wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, First of all you keep mentioning form 8050-88. This is not the form in question. 8050-88 is used to register experimental amateur built aircraft. It is form 8050-88A that is used for light sport aircraft.
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Yes, but same thing... the 8050-88 or 8050-88A is only used during the "initial" registration process
When you "re register" your plane with this new 3 year thing, you do not use that form. Agreed?
It would appear that if you miss the magic deadline, you still would not use that form.. at least for some period of time. If you looked at the actual FAA web page for this 3-year thing, you'd see this statement:
"When an aircraft is not re-registered or the registration is not renewed, the cancellation of the N-number assigned to that aircraft will take place approximately 90 days after the expiration of an aircraft's registration. Upon cancellation, an N-number will be unavailable for assignment or reservation for a period of five years."
"If aircraft registration has expired and the N-number has been canceled, application may be made to register the aircraft under 14 CFR § 47.31, using the standard application for registration and payment of the $5 registration fee. The process to reinstate a previously registered aircraft remains unchanged."
From this, I deduce that you should certainly re-register before 90 days is up. The second paragraph gives you a method to re-register your aircraft, if you missed the magic deadline. None of these talk about requiring a new 8050-88A.
--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: bob(at)fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
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flyadive(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:26 am Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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Roger & Gaggle:
This is the first I am hearing about LSA Registration. Have you heard of the same type of Registration for GA Experimental or Certified aircraft?
This is scary!
Barry
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Rick,
I agree whole heartedly that the bottom line no matter what category you are in within the aviation world is don't play with these people because they hold all the cards. Loosing your registration along with all the other repercussions of loosing it will be the biggest headache you ever had. It's easy enough to do and it's for a good cause and let's hope it works as well as the FAA thinks it will. So for me it's get'er done and move on.
This way I can cut back on the Ibuprofen.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312019#312019
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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Gents,
I visited the FAA pavilion at Oshkosh this year and spoke with the individual at the Aircraft Registrations booth. He was explaining the new re-registration plans anyone and everyone who stopped by to listen. And he was working with folks to confirm their aircraft registration information. That is, make sure the names, addresses, etc. associated with their aircraft registration were correct so that the re-registration notification and forms were sent to the correct location. I confirmed the correct information for my Europa. You can also go on line to the FAA website and confirm this information yourself.
Nothing insidious about any of this. The FAA is just trying to clean up their registration database (and probably generate a bit of revenue) by requiring ALL (E-LSA, S-LSA, LSA, Experimental, Certified, etc.) aircraft registrations to be confirmed. Price of the re-registration is still to be determined the last I heard. Speculation had the cost ranging from $5 to well over $50.
I recommend folks check their registration information at the FAA website and be prepared for the re-registration paperwork that will be arriving at the aircraft's registered address beginning in November. As previously stated, time frame for the re-registration of any aircraft will be based on the month of the original registration.
Check six,
Bob Borger
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Europa XS, Short Wing, Intercooled Rotax 914
rlborger(at)mac.com
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Sep 11, 2010, at 8:24 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Roger & Gaggle:
This is the first I am hearing about LSA Registration. Have you heard of the same type of Registration for GA Experimental or Certified aircraft?
This is scary!
Barry
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Follow up on registration information |
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Hi Barry,
It is for all aircraft in the US no matter what category you are in.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Follow up on registration information |
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VERY IMPORTANT POST AND ALL SHOULD TAKE HEAD.
Hi Rick,
I want to be the first one in line here to say you were absolutely right and your alarm level well founded for those who fail to take responsibility! Thank You for finding this fine point as it will affect most people here.
Hi All,
I called the FAA and talked to Edsel Ford of the FAA. He is their top LSA person.
When you get your FAA re-registration letter make sure you take care of it in a timely manner (you have almost 6 months), do not and I really mean do not let it expire on its posted date. This will be painless and easy for most.
Here is the issue. If it goes past the posted date on the letter you will have your "N" number suspended. Having an "N" number is a requirement to be airworthy. Right now as it stands the FAA will at some point terminate your "N" number if you allow this to happen. They are getting a legal reading on this as we talk. The expiration of the letter may be the same as termination of your "N" number, this is a gray area and legal is looking at it.
Here is the big issue. It will not be simple to get it back. [u]If you came from the fat Ultralight group and became ELSA your are dead in the water forever. You can never get a "N" number again. If you are SLSA like some of us here you will loose your airworthy cert and "N" number and will have to go through the entire process of getting a new registration through FD USA, inspections, new number, ect.... all over again. This will apply to all US aircraft GA and the like. DO NOT LET THIS GO PAST THE LETTER'S DEAD LINE!
It will be the owners responsibility to make sure the FAA has your current info like your address so you will receive your letter. This is in the FAR's now and always has been. Now if you know that you have to re-register within a certain time as posted in all the write ups about this re-registration and don't get a letter then it would be extremely prudent to call them.
I ask and there are no "get out of jail free cards" here. If you allow your time to expire your done.
This process won't be a big deal for the majority of the owners in aviation, but their may be some that procrastinate or loose paperwork and forget. This won't be a time in your life to do either.
Like to comedian says "Get'er Done".
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
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bob(at)fly-ul.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: Follow up on registration information |
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Roger Said:
| Quote: | I called the FAA and talked to Edsel Ford of the FAA
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and
| Quote: | They are getting a legal reading on this as we talk. The expiration of the letter may be the same as termination of your "N" number, this is a gray area and legal is looking at it.
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That's my whole point with this whole discussion. People shouldn't have to phone Edsel Ford, to ask what their rules "really" say, or to get one FAA person's interpretation, and we shouldn't have to hear things like "This is a gray area... our legal people are working on it".
The FAA's own website does not support the position that "if you miss the deadline, you will never be able to re-register again". In fact, the FAA site talks about what to do if one's registration has expired (refers you to 47.31). 14 CFR 47.31 makes no mention of 8050-88A or any problems one might have with "getting your registration current again". Yes, the FAA site does talk about one's N-Numbers being cancelled after some amount of time (90 days? 6 months?), but again, there is no mention made about any permanent ramifications, if some magic date is missed.
The bottom line is that the FAA really needs to get their act together. They seem to have problems writing regulations that have no gray areas, aren't vague, or that don't conflict with another one of their regulations.
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Follow up on registration information |
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I am coming to this discussion a bit late but will add my little bit to it.
1st) I agree that we should all conform to the FAA's requirements fore re-new-ing our current registrations (not re-registering, or applying for a new registration) in a timely manner. If we do that, then all the What-If questions are moot.
2nd) It appears that some are confusing the Airworthiness Certificate with the Registration certificate.
3rd)The registration certificate merely identifies the current owner of an aircraft. None of the registration certificates I've had over the years have any information other than the owner's name, address, the registration number (N-number), manufacturer, model, serial number of the aircraft, ICAO number and the issue date. There is nothing on the registration certificate itself that even says it is in airplane or powered parachute or whatever!
4th) The Airworthiness Certificate tells us what sort of aircraft it is which in some ways tells the world how it can be used (or not) and how it must be maintained and inspected. White A/W certificates are for standard category and pink are for all others. These A/W certificates identify the aircraft by registration number (N-number), make and model, serial number and category, plus date of issuance. It does not list DIRECTLY the name of the owner or any other information that identifies the owner. That information is only referenced via the N-number field.
5th) The A/W certificate is generally issued once and only once shortly after the aircraft is manufactured or in the case of fat UL conversions, when it officially becomes an aircraft. It is transfered with the aircraft from owner to owner. I have a scanned image of the old Piper Cherokee I once was part owner of. The issue date on that A/W certificate is 11/14/75 which is when the FAA blessed it as legal to fly. It is the same piece of paper that has gone from owner to owner of that airplane over the last 35 years and nothing on it has changed in that time.
In Summary:
- The A/W certificate is what tells us what sort of aircraft it is and thereby lets the world know by what standards it must be operated and maintained.
- The Registration certificate tells the world who is the current owner of the aircraft.
- The FAA wants to make sure that they know who currently owns each of the aircraft registered in the USA and purge their files of old and erroneous data, and cover their costs of doing so with new registration fees. That is all they are doing with the new process. No changes in the A/W certificates or certification process here.
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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