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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: California coast via RV10?

I'd like to find out the feasibility of a flight, from those

who live out on the far West...near the coast.



I'm contemplating a flight that goes all the way from

Washington State to San Diego, with a couple of quick

stops on the way.  I want to stop for a quick trip out to

Catalina island, since that's one of those places you

read about all the time, but I rarely will ever get to

that part of the country.  After a short stop at Catalina

island it would be back to the mainland maybe by San Diego.

Not sure if I'd even stay the night there...seems that

it's hard to find a real regular small GA airport in those

parts.  But on to the Sedona area.



My concern is that I would LOVE to do the flight down the

California coast at 2000-3000', just cruising along and

seeing the sights.  Even 1000' some of the time.

But, with all the airspace and cities and KSFO's Bravo

and especially the LAX area as I go out to the island,

how practical is that idea?  And, is the weather this

coming time of year usually conducive to such a flight?

I can do it another time if I'm picking a bad time for

such a trip.



Any good advice on how to flight plan that one?  It's

all foreign territory to me.  Florida is busy too, but

not mountainous, so it's easier.



-- 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

rv10(at)colohan.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject: California coast via RV10?

I'm not super experienced, but I learned to fly in California, and have flow to San Diego, so I can offer at least a few random data points:



- If you are IFR rated, everything becomes easier.  Transitioning the LAX or SFO class B while IFR is trivial.

 



- In the SFO area is is quite possible to fly under the class B while staying near the coast.  At one point north of Half Moon Bay you end up out of gliding range of shore for a minute -- whether this is okay with you depends on your risk tolerance.  It is also quite reasonable to get a class B transition right over SFO (ask for a "Bay Tour"), or to fly up the east bay over Oakland.  Just be sure you are comfortable talking to ATC, and do what you can to memorize the complex airspace before doing this segment, as it is quite common to be told "avoid class B" for some routings, or if they are too busy for VFR planes.

 



- There are plenty of places along the coast where you have a rocky cliff dropping to the ocean, followed by mountains.  This means "few choices for a good emergency landing if you fly low".  Folks seem to fly here anyways, so this also depends on your tolerance for risk.

 



- During the summer the ocean by the shore in the SF area gets a marine layer on it every day, and it is rare to find a good clear day for flying on the coast.  During the fall it is much easier to avoid flying over a layer.

 



- If you want to stop in San Diego KMYF is quite convenient.

- If you happen to stop at Palo Alto (KPAO) I live pretty darn close, and would be happy to buy you dinner. (I owe you at least that, given the huge value of your web site...)

 



- If you've never done any mountain flying, it is quite worthwhile to get a mountain checkout before spending too much time flying over/near mountains.  Even on clear not-too-windy days it can be quite surprising when you get 1000fpm sink from a mountain wave coming off a distant mountain (as I did in the LA area as I flew down to San Diego).  At a minimum, read Sparky Imeson's book, it is quite short and very educational.

 



Chris



On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:17 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>

 

 I'd like to find out the feasibility of a flight, from those

 who live out on the far West...near the coast.

 

 I'm contemplating a flight that goes all the way from

 Washington State to San Diego, with a couple of quick

 stops on the way.  I want to stop for a quick trip out to

 Catalina island, since that's one of those places you

 read about all the time, but I rarely will ever get to

 that part of the country.  After a short stop at Catalina

 island it would be back to the mainland maybe by San Diego.

 Not sure if I'd even stay the night there...seems that

 it's hard to find a real regular small GA airport in those

 parts.  But on to the Sedona area.

 

 My concern is that I would LOVE to do the flight down the

 California coast at 2000-3000', just cruising along and

 seeing the sights.  Even 1000' some of the time.

 But, with all the airspace and cities and KSFO's Bravo

 and especially the LAX area as I go out to the island,

 how practical is that idea?  And, is the weather this

 coming time of year usually conducive to such a flight?

 I can do it another time if I'm picking a bad time for

 such a trip.

 

 Any good advice on how to flight plan that one?  It's

 all foreign territory to me.  Florida is busy too, but

 not mountainous, so it's easier.

 

 -- 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:19 am Post subject: Re: California coast via RV10?

Tim,



I haven't done much on the coast in little airplanes, but I've been watching them for 25 years from up higher.  It seems to me that there are VFR corridors through most of it.  At LAX, it is right off the end of the runways along the shoreline, and we often get traffic along there pointed out.  I did fly my Socata into Hawthorne near LAX and it was actually quite easy in and out.  There are several smaller airports around San Diego, but even SAN itself seems GA friendly as long as you don't hit them during a rush.  I've been to Catalina and it wan't bad at all.



I think the only real problem area on the coast is around Vandenberg AFB and Point Magu.   San Luis Obisbo, Santa Maria were nice stops in my Metro days as were Santa Barbara and Monterrey.  They are all GA friendly.



One caution for any California airport is that they do ramp inspections and note N numbers and send out tax notices if you haven't paid them any tax.  It happened to me and is a pain to prove that you are just a visitor.



Sedona is very nice.  Great restaurant and a decent hotel a short walk from the ramp.



Plan it during Copperstate and stop by the RV10 nest.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:49 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

I have flown the coast a couple of times and did not find anything special to worry about.  It has been a while but I remember that both San Francisco and LAX controllers were very helpful.



Make sure you ask for the Golden Gate bridge tour when you talk to San Francisco.  They have a routine where they send you over the bridge at lower altitude for sight seeing.  On that day, half of the bridge was under fog and it was a awesome sight.  The sight seeing routine was offered to me by the controllers and I did not know anything about it before I got there.



One thing I did not like; the coast has a rugged landscape and if I remember right, most of the time you have no emergency lading spot other than ditching in cold waters.



Do Not archive.



On Sep 24, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Tim Olson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I'd like to find out the feasibility of a flight, from those

 who live out on the far West...near the coast.

 

 I'm contemplating a flight that goes all the way from

 Washington State to San Diego, with a couple of quick

 stops on the way.  I want to stop for a quick trip out to

 Catalina island, since that's one of those places you

 read about all the time, but I rarely will ever get to

 that part of the country.  After a short stop at Catalina

 island it would be back to the mainland maybe by San Diego.

 Not sure if I'd even stay the night there...seems that

 it's hard to find a real regular small GA airport in those

 parts.  But on to the Sedona area.

 

 My concern is that I would LOVE to do the flight down the

 California coast at 2000-3000', just cruising along and

 seeing the sights.  Even 1000' some of the time.

 But, with all the airspace and cities and KSFO's Bravo

 and especially the LAX area as I go out to the island,

 how practical is that idea?  And, is the weather this

 coming time of year usually conducive to such a flight?

 I can do it another time if I'm picking a bad time for

 such a trip.

 

 Any good advice on how to flight plan that one?  It's

 all foreign territory to me.  Florida is busy too, but

 not mountainous, so it's easier.

 

 -- 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:49 am Post subject: Re: California coast via RV10?

Good information for us low time pilots. Keep it coming!

_________________
Wayne G.

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

Unfortunately, the restaurant at Sedona is closed, pending replacement of the old building with something in the terminal. Would be fantastic if you can schedule to make Copperstate. Montgomery Field in San Diego is fine. 

 If you want to land below sea level, there is Imperial Valley on the way from the Coast to Arizona.



On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 1:19 AM, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)>

   

 Tim,

  

 Sedona is very nice.  Great restaurant and a decent hotel a short walk from the ramp.

 

 Plan it during Copperstate and stop by the RV10 nest.

 

 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313560#313560

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

I agree, thanks to all of the good replies, both on and off-list.

It sounds like it should be no problem at all.  A few have mentioned

the off-airport landing possibilities (very few) along the coast,

and yeah, that does make a person nervous, but at the same time

it's done every day and a once-in-a-lifetime flight for me

probably, so we'll probably do it if we can.  We'll have the

same life jackets used for the Bahamas trip.  The kids will be

along, and they'll love the view.  It's a vacation but we'll

be moving along at a good clip because we've got many thousands

of miles to cover in one week.  We may have one or two planes

coming with us for portions of the time too.



I don't plan to do copperstate, as this one we'll be real

pressed for time to cover the miles and stops, and this one

is about family vacation less than pilot vacation. 

So far we have extreme interest from the kids in a whale

watching trip, so I have to figure out which area would

be best to do that, since we'll basically cover most

of the US West coast.  I'd hope there was somewhere where

there would be *guaranteed* whale encounter trips.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 9/24/2010 7:49 AM, rv10flyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Good information for us low time pilots. Keep it coming!



 --------

 Wayne Gillispie, A&amp;P 5/93, PPC 10/08

 Grayson, KY  Bldr# 40983

 Ord complete kit 8/24/09; DB Sch del 11/20/09

 Emp 12/01/09-3/14/10 332 hrs

 Wings 3/14/10-9/18/10 360 hrs

 Fuselage 9/21/10-

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:36 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

Another thing to consider during this time of years is indeed the fog most likely will be less, but there is also the chance for the Santa Ana wind conditions which are present in the mid to southern portion of the state. The winds can be very strong and will not make for nice flying. These winds become more likely late in September, and get more  and more likely through January.



On another note, might I recommend Camarillo airport or Oxnard airport and a whale watching trip form Ventura harbor.. Those Channel Islands are nicer than Catalina, but sounds like you would like to land at the famous Catalina airport, which has plenty of wrecked airplanes at the end of the field. Catalina Island has more touristy stuff to do, the other islands are remote and prettier because they are away from Los Angeles.

Just stuff to look at.

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

dan.masys(at)vanderbilt.e
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

 	  Quote: 	
		   > Any good advice on how to flight plan that one?  It's

 > all foreign territory to me.  Florida is busy too, but

 > not mountainous, so it's easier.

 >

 > --

 > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 > do not archive


	


Since I am now using my RV-10 from time to time to do the 1750nm commute between Nashville and the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, and flew the route between San Diego and the Pacific Northwest many times, I would add the following to the good information already posted.



1. In an RV-10 with you as a current instrument rated pilot, you're gonna have big fun and tons of options.  It is a glorious route in good weather, and even with the coastal stratus, if temps are not conducive to icing, you generally only have to hop over a few miles inland along the central coast to get to a clear path.  More coastal mountains north of San Francisco but still lots of options.



Just call for flight following wherever you are, and you'll generally have very helpful controllers.  If they are busy and it's getting a little scuzzy, just land inland or air-file IFR and get in the system.



2. We flew the route from Oakland to Victoria BC along the coast in one day when there was a big high pressure system over the region, doing just what you describe: 2500 feet following the coastline.  Things not to miss, north to south:



a. Swing by Mount St. Helens.  You will be shocked on the north side to see the moonscape with trees flattened like toothpicks for miles, now 30 years after the event.  (Don't get spooked by the steam still rising from the crater!).



b. Take a jog inland to McMinnville OR to see the Evergreen Aviation Museum (home of Spruce Goose)



c. There is a great string of picturesque lighthouses along the Oregon Coast, also Crescent City and Point Reyes.



d. The Bay tour over the Golden Gate bridge, as others have mentioned



e. Fly by the San Simeon castle, just north of Morro Bay and San Luis Obispo.



f. After you make the carrier-style landing at Catalina Island, get a buffalo burger at the restaurant on the airport.  If more time available, take the shuttle bus down to Avalon and walk around the town or get one of the little rental surreys and do the whole tour of the town and the Wrigley botanical gardens.



g. Headed back over to the mainland, the most GA friendly airport in the San Diego area is Gillespie  (KSEE in El Cajon, about 20 miles inland with lots of experimentals based there) but Montgomery Field (KMYF) is fine too, and much closer to downtown attractions like the zoo, the Midway aircraft carrier museum and harbor walk-around.



Enjoy!



-Dan Masys

RV-10 N104LD 402 hrs

RV-12 N122LD firewall forward

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:14 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

Keep in mind, there is a landing fee at Catalina,  I think I heard it was $15-20, the airport is not near Avalon (main town) so you  need a taxi to get there and I hear that is quite expensive as well.  

 Oh and expect the trip down and up the hill  to/from town to the airport to take a fair amount of time.. if you have 1/2 a  day minimum this will work for you.

 This is the same experience as Sedona, now that I  think about it.

 Pascal

  



  From: John Gonzalez (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com) 

 Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 7:26 AM

 To: RV 10 group (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: California coast via RV10?

 



Another thing to consider during this time of years is indeed the  fog most likely will be less, but there is also the chance for the Santa Ana  wind conditions which are present in the mid to southern portion of the state.  The winds can be very strong and will not make for nice flying. These winds  become more likely late in September, and get more  and more likely through  January.  



 On another note, might I recommend Camarillo airport or Oxnard airport and  a whale watching trip form Ventura harbor.. Those Channel Islands are nicer than  Catalina, but sounds like you would like to land at the famous Catalina airport,  which has plenty of wrecked airplanes at the end of the field. Catalina Island  has more touristy stuff to do, the other islands are remote and prettier because  they are away from Los Angeles.

 



 Just stuff to look at.

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

 In the scope of flying the approximately 5000 round trip

statute miles that the trip will be, I guess $20 is

swallowable. 



I think for Catalina Island while I wouldn't mind touring

the island for a while, that I'll be happy to just land

and eat and turn around.  To me, Catalina Island would

be about the view, the airport, and the flying experience.

Then I'll have to get back to things the kids would

prefer. 

You guys have been great at your tips.  Thanks to Dan

Masys, as I hadn't even though about Mt. St. Helens,

and San Simeon Castle.  Lots of near things to see.

Glad I did McMinnville already or I'd never have time

to see what I want on this trip!



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 9/24/2010 10:11 AM, Pascal wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Keep in mind, there is a landing fee at Catalina, I think I heard it was

 $15-20, the airport is not near Avalon (main town) so you need a taxi to

 get there and I hear that is quite expensive as well.

 Oh and expect the trip down and up the hill to/from town to the airport

 to take a fair amount of time.. if you have 1/2 a day minimum this will

 work for you.

 This is the same experience as Sedona, now that I think about it.

 Pascal

Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

Tim,

	I may still be sun bathing around that time, that is as close to a

whale watching guarantee as one can get! BTW the Monterey Bay Aquarium is

pretty fantastic if you are stopping there. I know, I know not enough

time.



Robin

Do Not Archive

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

Hi Tim,



I'm not a high time pilot, and with all the time I spend building  

these days I'm not getting much time in at all of late, but the time I  

do have is in Southern California, up the coast and out East to  

Arizona.  Considering that, I can offer the following bits of info:



The Catalina runway is tricky, at best.  FBO's around here insist on a  

check ride with an instructor before they'll let you take their planes  

there on your own.  I have not made the trip, but my understanding is  

that the runway is shaped like an inverted "V".  Visually, it seems to  

end well before it actually does end.  But, when it does end, it ends  

abruptly on the edge of a cliff.  The preponderance of accidents there  

are the result of the unnecessarily aborted landings that that site  

picture creates.  Catalina is a great spot for SCUBA diving... though  

the water is cold.



Fog can roll in quickly off the ocean at the end of the day... and I  

mean quickly.  If you're cruising down the coast in the late  

afternoon, have inland alternates planned because the airports beneath  

you can go 0/0 before you know it.



There is a VFR corridor over LAX that's easy to pass through and  

intended for the coastal cruise you're planning.



Pay attention to the jump zones around San Diego and glider areas in  

the high desert above LA (in case the fog bumps you inland).  They are  

active.



All that having been said, I've driven the entire West Coast from San  

Diego to Alaska and you are in for a treat.  It is unbelievably  

beautiful and you will want to come back for more.



If you need hangar space, I've got an empty one at Chino that you are  

welcome to use.



Jeff Carpenter

40304



On Sep 23, 2010, at 9:17 PM, Tim Olson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'd like to find out the feasibility of a flight, from those

 who live out on the far West...near the coast.



 I'm contemplating a flight that goes all the way from

 Washington State to San Diego, with a couple of quick

 stops on the way.  I want to stop for a quick trip out to

 Catalina island, since that's one of those places you

 read about all the time, but I rarely will ever get to

 that part of the country.  After a short stop at Catalina

 island it would be back to the mainland maybe by San Diego.

 Not sure if I'd even stay the night there...seems that

 it's hard to find a real regular small GA airport in those

 parts.  But on to the Sedona area.



 My concern is that I would LOVE to do the flight down the

 California coast at 2000-3000', just cruising along and

 seeing the sights.  Even 1000' some of the time.

 But, with all the airspace and cities and KSFO's Bravo

 and especially the LAX area as I go out to the island,

 how practical is that idea?  And, is the weather this

 coming time of year usually conducive to such a flight?

 I can do it another time if I'm picking a bad time for

 such a trip.



 Any good advice on how to flight plan that one?  It's

 all foreign territory to me.  Florida is busy too, but

 not mountainous, so it's easier.



 -- 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: California coast via RV10?

Going north to south: 



The northern california coast is quite beautiful. Arcata has an ILS if the stratus has moved in. 



Shelter cove is quaint but not too much else there. vfr only



Mendocino (Little River Airport) is a popular tourist spot (many TV series and movies have been filmed there) but last time I looked the ground transportation was a problem, I'd check that out first. The airport is just far enough inland that it often escapes the coastal stratus.



Santa Rosa is 20 nm inland, has an ILS, is a good alternate.



You're asked to fly at least 2000' over Pt Reyes National Seashore.



If you happen to be near SFO at lunch, I can recommend Half Moon Bay (KHAF). There is a diner at the tie-down/fuel area, but instead taxi all the way to the southern end of the field. There are some tie downs there. Take the path south a couple hundred yards to Princeton by the Sea. There are numerous casual restaurants there, with fresh sea food.



KHAF is often under the stratus but now has a good LPV gps approach. The east bay airports like Livermore (KLVK) are almost always vfr this time of year; good alternates.



The coastal area around SFO is easily navigated, just one small area north of KHAF where you either (1) deal with atc, or (2) fly low and just a bit off shore.



Monterey has a restaurant on the field; also a tie down fee of $20 or so.



The Big Sur coast south of Monterey is again quite beautiful. As others have said, an engine failure means ditching, although very close to shore.



I'd consider going direct Catalina from Oxnard or so. This is a bit of overwater flying, but stays outside the LAX class B. There's nothing to see along the LAX shoreline, IMHO



As others have said, Catalina airport is quite a ways from the town of 

Avalon. It is an "aircraft carrier", with steep drop offs at either end. But it should be no trouble for a -10.



Continuing south Palomar is a good airport, although lately it seems more jet oriented. I like Montgomery Field (KMYF) as GA friendly in San Diego.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:05 pm Post subject: California coast via RV10?

 	  Quote: 	
		   You're asked to fly at least 2000' over Pt Reyes National Seashore.<


	


Last month during my BFR, I learned a couple things about a few areas

that more-or-less coincide with some ambiguous markings on the SF

sectional.



One of the good things that came out of this exercise was that I

learned about a publication that I think is pretty cool.  I never

realized that there was a (nearly) complete legend for all the

markings on WAC, sectional, and terminal charts:



http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/aero_guide



I say "nearly" because I still can't figure out what the single blue

dots without a corresponding blue line are supposed to mean.  An

example is along the coast adjacent to KWVI.



One well marked and defined area is a sea otter preserve, and as Bob

mentioned, the sectional "requests" that you stay above 2000' AGL.  I

kind of stumbled upon another federal regulation, not an FAR, that

strictly prohibits flights in that area, and couple other areas as

well, below 1000'.  The regulation is



CFR 15 922.132 (a) (6)



(of course FARs are in CFR 14).



Here's a map of the "restricted overflight zones" per CFR 15 922.132 (a) (6):



http://montereybay.noaa.gov/research/techreports/marinezones/fig4.html



Now I wouldn't normally fly below 1000' AGL without a good reason,

probably not with my family on board, over populated areas, etc.  I

guess what bothers me about this reg is that 1) it's in my own

backyard and I didn't know about it until last month; 2) it's not

marked or noted on the sectional;  3) it's not an FAR, though it is a

federal regulation; and 4) how many other areas like this are out

there and where are they defined?



I guess this falls under the concept that we're all pretty much

breaking some law, somewhere, all the time.  And, hitting a pelican

probably has consequences beyond the obvious...



Now back to RVs.



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: California coast via RV10?

Dave,



Those blue dots actually do have a line, it's just shown along

the shoreline. It has the appearance of a depth curve on an

ocean navigation chart, but it's the line (and they do break it

from time to time to keep other things on the chart readable)

that marks the wildlife area.  I think that means you need

to stay 2000' AGL in those areas along the coast.  We have

many such areas in the Northern Minnesota and Northern

Wisconsin areas around national/state park areas.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 9/25/2010 5:02 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



> You're asked to fly at least 2000' over Pt Reyes National Seashore.<



 Last month during my BFR, I learned a couple things about a few areas

 that more-or-less coincide with some ambiguous markings on the SF

 sectional.



 One of the good things that came out of this exercise was that I

 learned about a publication that I think is pretty cool.  I never

 realized that there was a (nearly) complete legend for all the

 markings on WAC, sectional, and terminal charts:



 http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/aero_guide



 I say "nearly" because I still can't figure out what the single blue

 dots without a corresponding blue line are supposed to mean.  An

 example is along the coast adjacent to KWVI.



 One well marked and defined area is a sea otter preserve, and as Bob

 mentioned, the sectional "requests" that you stay above 2000' AGL.  I

 kind of stumbled upon another federal regulation, not an FAR, that

 strictly prohibits flights in that area, and couple other areas as

 well, below 1000'.  The regulation is



 CFR 15 922.132 (a) (6)



 (of course FARs are in CFR 14).



 Here's a map of the "restricted overflight zones" per CFR 15 922.132 (a) (6):



 http://montereybay.noaa.gov/research/techreports/marinezones/fig4.html



 Now I wouldn't normally fly below 1000' AGL without a good reason,

 probably not with my family on board, over populated areas, etc.  I

 guess what bothers me about this reg is that 1) it's in my own

 backyard and I didn't know about it until last month; 2) it's not

 marked or noted on the sectional;  3) it's not an FAR, though it is a

 federal regulation; and 4) how many other areas like this are out

 there and where are they defined?



 I guess this falls under the concept that we're all pretty much

 breaking some law, somewhere, all the time.  And, hitting a pelican

 probably has consequences beyond the obvious...



 Now back to RVs.



 Dave Saylor

 AirCrafters

 140 Aviation Way

 Watsonville, CA 95076

 831-722-9141 Shop

 831-750-0284 Cell

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: California coast via RV10?

Dave,



If you hold the chart at arms length, to get the big picture, and also look out to sea, I think you'll see the 'dots' outline the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary. The solid line doubles over the coast line, so you can't see it.

Now, why they put marine sanctuaries on aeronautical charts, I haven't a clue.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: California coast via RV10?

Right, but in some places, like Point Lobos, the blue line is obvious.

Just north of there the marking changes to just blue dots, no line.

You may be right, maybe the blue line is just overlaid on the coast

but it looks different in some places.



Do you think that since Point Lobos is a "different" reserve within

the larger area that they gave it a separate boundary?



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell



On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Dave,



 If you hold the chart at arms length, to get the big picture, and also look out to sea, I think you'll see the 'dots' outline the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary. The solid line doubles over the coast line, so you can't see it.

 Now, why they put marine sanctuaries on aeronautical charts, I haven't a clue.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313750#313750

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: California coast via RV10?

That must be right, that the blue line is just omitted in that

particular area.  Some places it's shown and some places it isn't.



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell



On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Dave,



 Those blue dots actually do have a line, it's just shown along

 the shoreline. It has the appearance of a depth curve on an

 ocean navigation chart, but it's the line (and they do break it

 from time to time to keep other things on the chart readable)

 that marks the wildlife area. Â I think that means you need

 to stay 2000' AGL in those areas along the coast. Â We have

 many such areas in the Northern Minnesota and Northern

 Wisconsin areas around national/state park areas.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 On 9/25/2010 5:02 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:

>

> 

> Saylor<dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>

>

>> You're asked to fly at least 2000' over Pt Reyes National Seashore.<

>

> Last month during my BFR, I learned a couple things about a few areas

> that more-or-less coincide with some ambiguous markings on the SF

> sectional.

>

> One of the good things that came out of this exercise was that I

> learned about a publication that I think is pretty cool. Â I never

> realized that there was a (nearly) complete legend for all the

> markings on WAC, sectional, and terminal charts:

>

> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/aero_guide

>

> I say "nearly" because I still can't figure out what the single blue

> dots without a corresponding blue line are supposed to mean. Â An

> example is along the coast adjacent to KWVI.

>

> One well marked and defined area is a sea otter preserve, and as Bob

> mentioned, the sectional "requests" that you stay above 2000' AGL. Â I

> kind of stumbled upon another federal regulation, not an FAR, that

> strictly prohibits flights in that area, and couple other areas as

> well, below 1000'. Â The regulation is

>

> CFR 15 922.132 (a) (6)

>

> (of course FARs are in CFR 14).

>

> Here's a map of the "restricted overflight zones" per CFR 15 922.132 (a)

> (6):

>

> http://montereybay.noaa.gov/research/techreports/marinezones/fig4.html

>

> Now I wouldn't normally fly below 1000' AGL without a good reason,

> probably not with my family on board, over populated areas, etc. Â I

> guess what bothers me about this reg is that 1) it's in my own

> backyard and I didn't know about it until last month; 2) it's not

> marked or noted on the sectional; Â 3) it's not an FAR, though it is a

> federal regulation; and 4) how many other areas like this are out

> there and where are they defined?

>

> I guess this falls under the concept that we're all pretty much

> breaking some law, somewhere, all the time. Â And, hitting a pelican

> probably has consequences beyond the obvious...

>

> Now back to RVs.

>

> Dave Saylor

> AirCrafters

> 140 Aviation Way

> Watsonville, CA 95076

> 831-722-9141 Shop

> 831-750-0284 Cell

>

>

franksykes(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: California coast via RV10?

 	  Quote: 	
		     

Tim,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

 

 

   Since one of your vacation goals was for your family to see whales, I am surprised that no one has mention <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Anacortes, WA. My wife & I flew up there last year and took the whale sight seeing cruise. ( 4 to 5 hours ) depending on the location of the whale pods ) The cruse ship we took is listed on there web site    http://www.island-adventures.com/

 

 

 

 We had a great time and got to see the J Pod which consists of 20 to 30 killer whales. At this time of year the grey hump back whales have started there annual migration south, so you would get to see them as well. Federal rules state that tour operators can get no closed than 100 yards to the whales, so bring a telephoto lens if you want a good pictures. I hope you have a great vacation. If you have any questions about our vackation to the Seatle area, I would be happy to share them with you.

 

 

 

 A faithful and grateful reader of your RV10 website.

 

 

 

 

 

Frank Sykes

 

601-527-4795

 

franksykes(at)bellsouth.net

 

Madison, MS.

	
 [quote][b]

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