 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: here's the situation. what would you do? |
 |
|
In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento. The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports. The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
In 2005, the braces were bent more. The plane had 35 hours on it since the last annual. I did the annual and he was gone.
In 2006, he called to ask if I'd come and pick up the plane. He had flown about 35 hours that year also. I don't remember how I got to Mather; he could have come and picked me up or maybe a friend took me. At any rate, I got to Mather about sunset (in May). The plane had a dead battery and a flat tire. After putting air in the tire and jumping the battery, I started the engine. The landing light was burned out. None of the panel lights worked. I managed to taxi to the runway and fly the plane to Auburn.
During that annual, I found that the braces were extremely damaged. Both attach holes, for the horizontal, were badly cracked and the braces were badly bent. The owner wasn't phased. His solution: tear the entire plane apart and do a ground up restoration. He'd do most of the work. Fine. So, he came up every weekend for several months and took stuff apart. He removed the wings and stripped off the paint. We found some damage, but, nothing terrible. The entire plane was disassembled. No windows, no seats, no wiring, no instrument panel, . . . . nothing but a bare fuselage. I got his prop overhauled. I got his canopy headliner recovered. We were making progress. He ordered a Power Flow Exhaust system; paid cash. He ordered the later style seats; paid cash. He put a deposit on a new cowling. He said I could take some of the avionics to the AYA in Fredericksburg, TX 2006, and sell them to recover some money. I did.
Then, in September 2006, his wife of 10 months gave birth to their first kid. That was the last time he came to the hangar. Then, the $50,000 he had saved for the restoration was given to his wife's sister and her husband so they could buy the house down the street. The last time I saw him was Christmas of 2006. I called in January of 2007 and left a message asking what the next step was going to be. I never did get a call back. As I recall, my next step was to complete the redesign of the horizontal braces and get an approved bonding process, then install the braces.
In March 2007, I put his plane in the hangar across from me and started paying rent on the hangar. I figured it was better than leaving it outside. I had no room in my hangar.
Over the next several months, I worked on the tail of the plane. I removed the damaged braces, stripped and prepped the area for new braces, and began designing new braces. I finished the redesign of the braces in early 2008. I paid an engineer $4000 for the stress analysis, redesigned braces made into CAD drawings, all of the research for the bonding process and FAA approval. Then, I paid a DER another $1500 to review the entire package and submit it to the FAA for field approval. The braces were never installed.
I also began repair of some damage to the left wing.
Then I stopped working on the plane. I just stored it. The email address I had for the owner was changed at some point. Calls to him went unanswered.
Now, here it is, some 4 years after the project began. A couple of weeks ago, I tried calling his cell, his home, and his work number. The work number was changed. The home phone answering message was one of those digital non-descript messages so I didn't know if that was the right number. His cell had his name; I left a couple of messages. When he finally called back, after 2-weeks of calling, I told him his bill was $20,000+ and wanted to know what he wanted to do with the plane. He said he didn't think $20,000 was fair, that he'd come up on Saturday and we'd talk about it. Saturday came and went without a phone call; he never showed. I called his cell about 5pm to see what his plan was. No answer.
So, yesterday, he shows up, unannounced. We discuss the invoice, his wife gets all . . . . and starts accusing me of all sorts of things, the owner is calm but realizes it may be too late to continue the restoration without some serious cash.
Today I'm sending him a revised invoice. I took off all of the stuff he ordered: Power Flow, seats, cowling, plus delete the expenses for the braces. With the cash he's paid up front, he still owes $2000.
At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior, horizontal braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor, there is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
What would you do?
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
allenc3(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: here's the situation. what would you do? |
|
|
In Florida, they have a thing called a mechanics lien just for that type of thing. If he still owes 2g on the plane, start charging 200 a month storage. If he sells it you will get your 2g plus what storage fees accrue.
Claude
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 13, 2010, at 1:25 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:
[quote]In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento. The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports. The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
In 2005, the braces were bent more. The plane had 35 hours on it since the last annual. I did the annual and he was gone.
In 2006, he called to ask if I'd come and pick up the plane. He had flown about 35 hours that year also. I don't remember how I got to Mather; he could have come and picked me up or maybe a friend took me. At any rate, I got to Mather about sunset (in May). The plane had a dead battery and a flat tire. After putting air in the tire and jumping the battery, I started the engine. The landing light was burned out. None of the panel lights worked. I managed to taxi to the runway and fly the plane to Auburn.
During that annual, I found that the braces were extremely damaged. Both attach holes, for the horizontal, were badly cracked and the braces were badly bent. The owner wasn't phased. His solution: tear the entire plane apart and do a ground up restoration. He'd do most of the work. Fine. So, he came up every weekend for several months and took stuff apart. He removed the wings and stripped off the paint. We found some damage, but, nothing terrible. The entire plane was disassembled. No windows, no seats, no wiring, no instrument panel, . . . . nothing but a bare fuselage. I got his prop overhauled. I got his canopy headliner recovered. We were making progress. He ordered a Power Flow Exhaust system; paid cash. He ordered the later style seats; paid cash. He put a deposit on a new cowling. He said I could take some of the avionics to the AYA in Fredericksburg, TX 2006, and sell them to recover some money. I did.
Then, in September 2006, his wife of 10 months gave birth to their first kid. That was the last time he came to the hangar. Then, the $50,000 he had saved for the restoration was given to his wife's sister and her husband so they could buy the house down the street. The last time I saw him was Christmas of 2006. I called in January of 2007 and left a message asking what the next step was going to be. I never did get a call back. As I recall, my next step was to complete the redesign of the horizontal braces and get an approved bonding process, then install the braces.
In March 2007, I put his plane in the hangar across from me and started paying rent on the hangar. I figured it was better than leaving it outside. I had no room in my hangar.
Over the next several months, I worked on the tail of the plane. I removed the damaged braces, stripped and prepped the area for new braces, and began designing new braces. I finished the redesign of the braces in early 2008. I paid an engineer $4000 for the stress analysis, redesigned braces made into CAD drawings, all of the research for the bonding process and FAA approval. Then, I paid a DER another $1500 to review the entire package and submit it to the FAA for field approval. The braces were never installed.
I also began repair of some damage to the left wing.
Then I stopped working on the plane. I just stored it. The email address I had for the owner was changed at some point. Calls to him went unanswered.
Now, here it is, some 4 years after the project began. A couple of weeks ago, I tried calling his cell, his home, and his work number. The work number was changed. The home phone answering message was one of those digital non-descript messages so I didn't know if that was the right number. His cell had his name; I left a couple of messages. When he finally called back, after 2-weeks of calling, I told him his bill was $20,000+ and wanted to know what he wanted to do with the plane. He said he didn't think $20,000 was fair, that he'd come up on Saturday and we'd talk about it. Saturday came and went without a phone call; he never showed. I called his cell about 5pm to see what his plan was. No answer.
So, yesterday, he shows up, unannounced. We discuss the invoice, his wife gets all . . . . and starts accusing me of all sorts of things, the owner is calm but realizes it may be too late to continue the restoration without some serious cash.
Today I'm sending him a revised invoice. I took off all of the stuff he ordered: Power Flow, seats, cowling, plus delete the expenses for the braces. With the cash he's paid up front, he still owes $2000.
At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior, horizontal braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor, there is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
What would you do?
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
restr28i(at)verizon.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: here's the situation. what would you do? |
|
|
File lien with FAA
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/record_aircraft_lien/
On 10/13/2010 10:25 AM, Gary Vogt wrote: [quote] In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento. The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports. The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
In 2005, the braces were bent more. The plane had 35 hours on it since the last annual. I did the annual and he was gone.
In 2006, he called to ask if I'd come and pick up the plane. He had flown about 35 hours that year also. I don't remember how I got to Mather; he could have come and picked me up or maybe a friend took me. At any rate, I got to Mather about sunset (in May). The plane had a dead battery and a flat tire. After putting air in the tire and jumping the battery, I started the engine. The landing light was burned out. None of the panel lights worked. I managed to taxi to the runway and fly the plane to Auburn.
During that annual, I found that the braces were extremely damaged. Both attach holes, for the horizontal, were badly cracked and the braces were badly bent. The owner wasn't phased. His solution: tear the entire plane apart and do a ground up restoration. He'd do most of the work. Fine. So, he came up every weekend for several months and took stuff apart. He removed the wings and stripped off the paint. We found some damage, but, nothing terrible. The entire plane was disassembled. No windows, no seats, no wiring, no instrument panel, . . . . nothing but a bare fuselage. I got his prop overhauled. I got his canopy headliner recovered. We were making progress. He ordered a Power Flow Exhaust system; paid cash. He ordered the later style seats; paid cash. He put a deposit on a new cowling. He said I could take some of the avionics to the AYA in Fredericksburg, TX 2006, and sell them to recover some money. I did.
Then, in September 2006, his wife of 10 months gave birth to their first kid. That was the last time he came to the hangar. Then, the $50,000 he had saved for the restoration was given to his wife's sister and her husband so they could buy the house down the street. The last time I saw him was Christmas of 2006. I called in January of 2007 and left a message asking what the next step was going to be. I never did get a call back. As I recall, my next step was to complete the redesign of the horizontal braces and get an approved bonding process, then install the braces.
In March 2007, I put his plane in the hangar across from me and started paying rent on the hangar. I figured it was better than leaving it outside. I had no room in my hangar.
Over the next several months, I worked on the tail of the plane. I removed the damaged braces, stripped and prepped the area for new braces, and began designing new braces. I finished the redesign of the braces in early 2008. I paid an engineer $4000 for the stress analysis, redesigned braces made into CAD drawings, all of the research for the bonding process and FAA approval. Then, I paid a DER another $1500 to review the entire package and submit it to the FAA for field approval. The braces were never installed.
I also began repair of some damage to the left wing.
Then I stopped working on the plane. I just stored it. The email address I had for the owner was changed at some point. Calls to him went unanswered.
Now, here it is, some 4 years after the project began. A couple of weeks ago, I tried calling his cell, his home, and his work number. The work number was changed. The home phone answering message was one of those digital non-descript messages so I didn't know if that was the right number. His cell had his name; I left a couple of messages. When he finally called back, after 2-weeks of calling, I told him his bill was $20,000+ and wanted to know what he wanted to do with the plane. He said he didn't think $20,000 was fair, that he'd come up on Saturday and we'd talk about it. Saturday came and went without a phone call; he never showed. I called his cell about 5pm to see what his plan was. No answer.
So, yesterday, he shows up, unannounced. We discuss the invoice, his wife gets all . . . . and starts accusing me of all sorts of things, the owner is calm but realizes it may be too late to continue the restoration without some serious cash.
Today I'm sending him a revised invoice. I took off all of the stuff he ordered: Power Flow, seats, cowling, plus delete the expenses for the braces. With the cash he's paid up front, he still owes $2000.
At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior, horizontal braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor, there is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
What would you do?
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: here's the situation. what would you do? |
|
|
I'd file a mechanics lien and maybe talk to an attorney. You shouldn't have deducted all of the expense for the tail braces and DER, maybe half of it possibly. With this kind of situation you have to get a substantial deposit up front after things are identified before you sink a lot of money and time in to it.
Cliff
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: here's the situation. what would you do? |
|
|
Not being in the business, I may be way off target, but I'd:
1 First off, I'd itemize the expenses not paid, and send him a bill for that amount .... registered mail. I can see reducing the bill for things he paid for, but wouldn't discount your labor.
2 Send him a registered letter telling him you are going to take the airplane as abandoned, and file a mechanics lien on the money owed. Not real sure on the 'correct' way to accomplish this.
3 If that didn't get his attention, I'd spend a little $$ to have a lawyer draw up a letter .... just to make things 'legal'.
4 Call Guido, explain the problem, and let him handle it. The less you know, the better.
I doubt he's ever going to finish the project or move it somewhere else.
Linn
On 10/13/2010 1:25 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: [quote] In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento. The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports. The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
In 2005, the braces were bent more. The plane had 35 hours on it since the last annual. I did the annual and he was gone.
In 2006, he called to ask if I'd come and pick up the plane. He had flown about 35 hours that year also. I don't remember how I got to Mather; he could have come and picked me up or maybe a friend took me. At any rate, I got to Mather about sunset (in May). The plane had a dead battery and a flat tire. After putting air in the tire and jumping the battery, I started the engine. The landing light was burned out. None of the panel lights worked. I managed to taxi to the runway and fly the plane to Auburn.
During that annual, I found that the braces were extremely damaged. Both attach holes, for the horizontal, were badly cracked and the braces were badly bent. The owner wasn't phased. His solution: tear the entire plane apart and do a ground up restoration. He'd do most of the work. Fine. So, he came up every weekend for several months and took stuff apart. He removed the wings and stripped off the paint. We found some damage, but, nothing terrible. The entire plane was disassembled. No windows, no seats, no wiring, no instrument panel, . . . . nothing but a bare fuselage. I got his prop overhauled. I got his canopy headliner recovered. We were making progress. He ordered a Power Flow Exhaust system; paid cash. He ordered the later style seats; paid cash. He put a deposit on a new cowling. He said I could take some of the avionics to the AYA in Fredericksburg, TX 2006, and sell them to recover some money. I did.
Then, in September 2006, his wife of 10 months gave birth to their first kid. That was the last time he came to the hangar. Then, the $50,000 he had saved for the restoration was given to his wife's sister and her husband so they could buy the house down the street. The last time I saw him was Christmas of 2006. I called in January of 2007 and left a message asking what the next step was going to be. I never did get a call back. As I recall, my next step was to complete the redesign of the horizontal braces and get an approved bonding process, then install the braces.
In March 2007, I put his plane in the hangar across from me and started paying rent on the hangar. I figured it was better than leaving it outside. I had no room in my hangar.
Over the next several months, I worked on the tail of the plane. I removed the damaged braces, stripped and prepped the area for new braces, and began designing new braces. I finished the redesign of the braces in early 2008. I paid an engineer $4000 for the stress analysis, redesigned braces made into CAD drawings, all of the research for the bonding process and FAA approval. Then, I paid a DER another $1500 to review the entire package and submit it to the FAA for field approval. The braces were never installed.
I also began repair of some damage to the left wing.
Then I stopped working on the plane. I just stored it. The email address I had for the owner was changed at some point. Calls to him went unanswered.
Now, here it is, some 4 years after the project began. A couple of weeks ago, I tried calling his cell, his home, and his work number. The work number was changed. The home phone answering message was one of those digital non-descript messages so I didn't know if that was the right number. His cell had his name; I left a couple of messages. When he finally called back, after 2-weeks of calling, I told him his bill was $20,000+ and wanted to know what he wanted to do with the plane. He said he didn't think $20,000 was fair, that he'd come up on Saturday and we'd talk about it. Saturday came and went without a phone call; he never showed. I called his cell about 5pm to see what his plan was. No answer.
So, yesterday, he shows up, unannounced. We discuss the invoice, his wife gets all . . . . and starts accusing me of all sorts of things, the owner is calm but realizes it may be too late to continue the restoration without some serious cash.
Today I'm sending him a revised invoice. I took off all of the stuff he ordered: Power Flow, seats, cowling, plus delete the expenses for the braces. With the cash he's paid up front, he still owes $2000.
At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior, horizontal braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor, there is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
What would you do?
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:25 pm Post subject: here's the situation. what would you do? |
|
|
Gary,
I agree with the others but the lien may only be a threat since you may not want the plane. A Cheetah needing $50k in repairs has value only as parts since it would cost more to fix it than it would be worth after you were done. But if you decide they might as well be your parts rather than his, get an attorney, file the lien and show no mercy!
Dean
Dean White (Tiger N81166)
Edmonds, WA 98026
dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
--
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: here's the situation. what would you do? |
|
|
Hi Linn,
One-by-one . . . .
1 First off, I'd itemize the expenses not paid, and send him a bill for that amount .... registered mail. I can see reducing the bill for things he paid for, but wouldn't discount your labor.
--- I did. I made two invoices: (1) with all of my expenses (>$20,000) and; (2) the other with everything off except direct expenses (approx $2000).
2 Send him a registered letter telling him you are going to take the airplane as abandoned, and file a mechanics lien on the money owed. Not real sure on the 'correct' way to accomplish this.\\
--- this is next.
3 If that didn't get his attention, I'd spend a little $$ to have a lawyer draw up a letter .... just to make things 'legal'.
--- this is next.
4 Call Guido, explain the problem, and let him handle it. The less you know, the better.
--- talked to Tony.
I doubt he's ever going to finish the project or move it somewhere else.
Linn
On 10/13/2010 1:25 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: | Quote: | In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento. The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports. The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
In 2005, the braces were bent more. The plane had 35 hours on it since the last annual. I did the annual and he was gone.
In 2006, he called to ask if I'd come and pick up the plane. He had flown about 35 hours that year also. I don't remember how I got to Mather; he could have come and picked me up or maybe a friend took me. At any rate, I got to Mather about sunset (in May). The plane had a dead battery and a flat tire. After putting air in the tire and jumping the battery, I started the engine. The landing light was burned out. None of the panel lights worked. I managed to taxi to the runway and fly the plane to Auburn.
During that annual, I found that the braces were extremely damaged. Both attach holes, for the horizontal, were badly cracked and the braces were badly bent. The owner wasn't phased. His solution: tear the entire plane apart and do a ground up restoration. He'd do most of the work. Fine. So, he came up every weekend for several months and took stuff apart. He removed the wings and stripped off the paint. We found some damage, but, nothing terrible. The entire plane was disassembled. No windows, no seats, no wiring, no instrument panel, . . . . nothing but a bare fuselage. I got his prop overhauled. I got his canopy headliner recovered. We were making progress. He ordered a Power Flow Exhaust system; paid cash. He ordered the later style seats; paid cash. He put a deposit on a new cowling. He said I could take some of the avionics to the AYA in Fredericksburg, TX 2006, and sell them to recover some money. I did.
Then, in September 2006, his wife of 10 months gave birth to their first kid. That was the last time he came to the hangar. Then, the $50,000 he had saved for the restoration was given to his wife's sister and her husband so they could buy the house down the street. The last time I saw him was Christmas of 2006. I called in January of 2007 and left a message asking what the next step was going to be. I never did get a call back. As I recall, my next step was to complete the redesign of the horizontal braces and get an approved bonding process, then install the braces.
In March 2007, I put his plane in the hangar across from me and started paying rent on the hangar. I figured it was better than leaving it outside. I had no room in my hangar.
Over the next several months, I worked on the tail of the plane. I removed the damaged braces, stripped and prepped the area for new braces, and began designing new braces. I finished the redesign of the braces in early 2008. I paid an engineer $4000 for the stress analysis, redesigned braces made into CAD drawings, all of the research for the bonding process and FAA approval. Then, I paid a DER another $1500 to review the entire package and submit it to the FAA for field approval. The braces were never installed.
I also began repair of some damage to the left wing.
Then I stopped working on the plane. I just stored it. The email address I had for the owner was changed at some point. Calls to him went unanswered.
Now, here it is, some 4 years after the project began. A couple of weeks ago, I tried calling his cell, his home, and his work number. The work number was changed. The home phone answering message was one of those digital non-descript messages so I didn't know if that was the right number. His cell had his name; I left a couple of messages. When he finally called back, after 2-weeks of calling, I told him his bill was $20,000+ and wanted to know what he wanted to do with the plane. He said he didn't think $20,000 was fair, that he'd come up on Saturday and we'd talk about it. Saturday came and went without a phone call; he never showed. I called his cell about 5pm to see what his plan was. No answer.
So, yesterday, he shows up, unannounced. We discuss the invoice, his wife gets all . . . . and starts accusing me of all sorts of things, the owner is calm but realizes it may be too late to continue the restoration without some serious cash.
Today I'm sending him a revised invoice. I took off all of the stuff he ordered: Power Flow, seats, cowling, plus delete the expenses for the braces. With the cash he's paid up front, he still owes $2000.
At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior, horizontal braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor, there is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
What would you do?
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lmassaro
Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 13
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: Re: here's the situation. what would you do? |
|
|
| Quote: | [b]In 2004, I did an annual on a plane based at Mather Field in Sacramento. The owner had heard I was moving to Auburn, 7 flying miles from Mather. At the time of the annual, I recorded a few minor cracks in the horizontal supports. The CE was new at that time. I told him, we'd look at it the next year.
(text deleted)
At this point, the plane needs an engine, reassembly, paint, interior, horizontal braces replaces, avionics, and who knows what else. Without labor, there is at least $50,000 in expenses to make the plane airworthy.
What would you do?
|
What to do now:
Spend a few $$$ and get a lawyer to draft up a letter stating your intentions to :
1) Store the plane at your facility (outside) effective immediately at a rate of $$$ / mo. until the plane (or whats left of it) is moved by the owner.
2) File a lein for XX dollars for past storage time (x months at 200.00 per month). My opinion on fling a lein for all the other work performed to date may be contested in court (if it ever got that far) unless the work you performed was "pre-approved" in some manner.
Herein lies the fun running a business as yours. Trusting the customer. When you go to Totoya to get service, they provide an estimate of the repair and have you sign a doc stating you "authorize" the work. Do you have anything like that or was everything a simple handshake?
3) As backup, prepare a chronological list of all work performed and items purchased for the restoration including credits applied for the sale of any avionics removed as per his request in the event he contests in court.
4) Get a quote to ship the aircraft (are the wings still off?) to wherever he would like it moved to and provide that estimate.
5) Consult with a lawyer and consider notifying the owner your intention to treat the aircraft as "abandoned" and your intention to take it through "adverse possession". Provide a time frame at which this would occur. Obviously, this would be a tactic to get him off his ass to take some action (paying you, moving the plane, whatever)
Based on his (or his wife's) obvious desire not to spend any $$$ on this issue, I doubt he'd spend any money on lawyer costs and simply wants a "cheap" way out of this quagmire. Obviously, his desire would be to leave everything at your place for eternity at no cost which is not realistic.
Have this letter sent officially (registered mail) which legally satisfies your obligation to "formally" notify him of your intentions. Make sure the letter provides a specific "time is of the essence" statement or a specific time a reply must be received in writing from him or specific action defined in (1), (2) and (4) above will be taken.
What to do in the future:
Well, it just sucks that some people are like this. Protect yourself in the future (especially with any new customers) who have no prior history with you. When preparing an estimate, get the approval to start work in writing. If you are approved to to XX and you find you need to do YY, again, do what Toyota would do:
"Hey Joe, in fixing XX, we found out YY is all F'ed up, it'll cost you $$$, whaddya want to do?".
If the customer gives a verbal over the phone, document it in the invoice and in a confirmation email. If you have any issues, you at least have it documented which makes for a strong case vice the "he said, she said" situation.
The overall tone here is you are a business, plain and simple. In a perfect world, handshakes and trust are great, but all it takes is one case like this to change the way you do business in the future. One of the great things in this business is you can have a personal relationship with your customers which benefits both you and customer, but you have to balance the level of trust you have with each customer based on how much $$$ you are willing to risk in the event something happens with respect to that customer where a dispute arises.
I had a friend who was going through a divorce. Ive known him since 1st grade. Trust him with my life. But when he needed 20K to get him through a rough patch and to pay his divorce lawyer, I lent him the money. I also drafted up a legal Promissory Note that he executed prior to me writing the check. Had my lawyer review for $150.00. Might have been cold, but my friend understood completely and promptly paid me back as expected. If it were 1K, would I have done it...No. But just as in your case, you need to determine what is your threshold in time and money you are willing to risk before going the "legal" route in the operation of your business.
BTW...I hate lawyers (they are all out to f you), and hate being a cynic. But in 25 years in business, they are a necessary evil and being a cynic has saved me a lot of money...
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
