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HowardNMN(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:54 am Post subject: Oil pressure

i've never seen a mogas pump at an airport. how do those of you using mogas  get the stuff in your tanks--especially high wing tanks--jerry cans and funnels?  

  

 how to ground plastic jerry cans? not easy to pour a 35 pound can into  funnel w/o dinging wing or spilling

  [quote][b]

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:37 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Howard,

     

     I have a special piece of plywood and a sheet of bubble pack under     the plywood.  I put my 5 gallon can on the plywood which I place on     my wing (Kitfox).  I use one of those jiggle siphons to siphon the     gas into my tank.

     

     Pete

     

     

     On 11/15/2010 10:39 AM, HowardNMN(at)aol.com (HowardNMN(at)aol.com) wrote:     [quote]                              i've never seen a mogas pump at an airport. how do those of           you using mogas get the stuff in your tanks--especially high           wing tanks--jerry cans and funnels? 

          

         how to ground plastic jerry cans? not easy to pour a 35           pound can into funnel w/o dinging wing or spilling

               	  Quote: 	
		  

====================================================

	
     [b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Take a look at "Goat Throat" pumps. They pressurize the can on the ground so you just run a hose up to the wing.  

   

Spruce has them: p/n 05-02196  

   

-- Craig  

       

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HowardNMN(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 8:40 AM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oil pressure  

  

  

     

i've never seen a mogas pump at an airport. how do those of you using mogas get the stuff in your tanks--especially high wing tanks--jerry cans and funnels?   

    

   

    

how to ground plastic jerry cans? not easy to pour a 35 pound can into funnel w/o dinging wing or spilling  

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Goodone

Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

I also use one of the siphons that you shake to get started. They work great.  In my hanger a ladder is used for the gas can and "on the road" I place the 5 gal can high up the spine of the fuselage.

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

I have a 15 gallon translucent tank, from US PLastics, 



http://tinyurl.com/2adnce3



strapped to a hand-truck. I pump the fuel from this tank to the aircraft fuel tank with a hand cranked pump from Harbor Freight 



http://www.harborfreight.com/barrel-pump-45743.html



plus tubing and a PVC pipe to make the tanks easy to fill from the floor. I fill the 15 gallon tank from 5 gallon jerry cans using a jiggle siphon hose. 



It sounds like extra work but it is quick and has several advantages over just filling the a/c tank directly from the jerry cans.

1) I always have plenty of fuel available when I need to top off even if I forget to buy fuel on the way to the airport.

2) Precision filling is easy. 16 cranks per gallon -sounds slow but it is not.

3) There is no mess or heavy lifting.

4) I share a hangar with another airplane and we both use this community tank, logging fuel added and subtracted so we know who owns the fuel in the fueler tank.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen! These cast iron barrel pumps are 

not designed to dispense gasoline. Might want to read the bold print on the 

first page of the manual.

Gordon

---

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

Gordon,



Thanks for the heads up. The manual that came with the pump I bought did not have the "don't pump gasoline" part in it. It said for use with non-corrosive petroleum based stuff but not the do not... part. I'll look for a replacement pump.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

Hi All,



I use a 30 gallon HazMat rated 1Y1 barrel $50. It can handle anything and never seems to rust. It has been in operation for 4 years. I have a gasoline approved UL rated 12V electric pump from Northern Tool $199. The pump has an in line fuel filter. You can also get a flow meter for this, but I did not care to have it. The pump has a 10' hose and regular fuel dispensing nozzle. This makes any kind of fueling on any plane a snap and spill free. I have a 12V sealed deep cycle battery and a rolling cart from Harbor Freight. The barrel and setup can be bonded to the plane with a wire and the cart/barrel can be grounded to my hanger which is very well grounded. I just take out some 5 gal. cans when I need fuel and just dump it in the barrel. I never put so much fuel in that I can't use it within 4 weeks. I fly often enough that is never a problem.



p.s.

Being a retired firefighter I always have extinguishers at hand on both sides of the hanger. Even if I never fueled there I would have the extinguishers.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Thom- The ad says it's suitable for "fuel".  We used a similar pump for methanol at work.

  

                                                      Bill Sullivan

                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.



--- On Tue, 11/16/10, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Oil pressure

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 9:07 AM



 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>



Gordon,



Thanks for the heads up. The manual that came with the pump I bought did not have the "don't pump gasoline" part in it. It said for use with non-corrosive petroleum based stuff but not the do not... part. I'll look for a replacement pump.



--------

Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A #1574

Tennessee Prop 64x32

â€œEveryone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.â€

Daniel Patrick Moynihan





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319559#31955 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.bsp;                     ========================http://www.matroni --> http:========================





	
 [quote][b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

Bill,



Yes, but the current manual says specifically that it is not to be used with gasoline or diesel. I presume the reason is that the body is cast iron and the internal components are steel, there is a remote chance that a spark could occur and ruin your day. I've used this one for more than a year and it seals fine and works well, but I'm not willing to count on it once I read the warning. 



Fortunately, Harbor Freight has a plastic one rated for gasoline etc. for $26 which I will be buying very soon. 



http://www.harborfreight.com/general-purpose-barrel-pump-66335.html

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

FLYDAD57(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:56 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Thom,



    These pumps need some sort of lubrication inherent in the pumped fluid. 

The fluids on the "DO NOT" list are all 'dry" fluids, which means they do 

not self-lubricate.  Ever notice the difference between kerosene and diesel 

fuel?  The kero is "dry", while the diesel fuel is slippery.  You could use 

this pump to pump diesel fuel, but not the kero.  If you are pumping your 

fuel AFTER you mix the oil into it, you should be OK.  If not, then the 

seals and whatnot inside the pump will simply not last as long.  I do not 

think it presents any kind of explosive hazard.



Bob Taylor

Wadsworth, Ohio

N657RT

---

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Thom, At 9 oz per stroke, that's 70 strokes for 5 gallons which might lead to one big stroke by the time you get the plane fueled. :-}



Rick Girard



On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Robert D. Taylor <FLYDAD57(at)neo.rr.com (FLYDAD57(at)neo.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Robert D. Taylor" <FLYDAD57(at)neo.rr.com (FLYDAD57(at)neo.rr.com)>

  

 Thom,

 

  Â  These pumps need some sort of lubrication inherent in the pumped fluid. The fluids on the "DO NOT" list are all 'dry" fluids, which means they do not self-lubricate. Â Ever notice the difference between kerosene and diesel fuel? Â The kero is "dry", while the diesel fuel is slippery. Â You could use this pump to pump diesel fuel, but not the kero. Â If you are pumping your fuel AFTER you mix the oil into it, you should be OK. Â If not, then the seals and whatnot inside the pump will simply not last as long. Â I do not think it presents any kind of explosive hazard.

  

 Bob Taylor

 Wadsworth, Ohio

 N657RT

 

 

 ---

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

Rick,



It sounds like a lot of work but in reality is not. 



The cast iron pump I have been using is 16 revolutions per gallon which is 80 revs per 5 gallons. Each rev is one cup (8 fluid oz.) At one rev./second (about normal pumping rate) it takes less than 1 1/2 minutes to load 5 gallons. It is not the least bit tiring and I'm don't pump iron (pun intended). Far weaker is the 140 lb pilot who I share the hangar with, who also uses this pump for his Sonex and he is 73 years old. 



The pump I plan to buy is not a crank type but a lever type pump which has three positions for placing the fulcrum/pivot pin so the user can pick from high volume, high effort, or low volume, low effort, or medium volume with medium effort. I do not know which of the positions is the 9 fluid oz position but don't expect any problem with it, but if I don't like it, back it goes.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

FLYDAD57(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: Oil pressure

And those strokes will be considerable slower than  what you have now.  I'd stay with what you've got.  Matter of fact,  I'm going to get one of my own.

 

Bob Taylor

Wadsworth, Ohio

N657RT

  

  

 [quote]   ---

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Thom- I have used the pump type, too.  Watch out for leaks at the upper seal on the piston.  We also used a 12V electric pump with a small, gas station type nozzle.  Worked quite nicely for diesel.  Never tried it on gas.

  

                                            Bill Sullivan

                                            Windsor Locks, Ct.



--- On Tue, 11/16/10, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Oil pressure

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 11:27 AM



 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>



Rick,



It sounds like a lot of work but in reality is not. 



The cast iron pump I have been using is 16 revolutions per gallon which is 80 revs per 5 gallons. Each rev is one cup (8 fluid oz.) At one rev./second (about normal pumping rate) it takes less than 1 1/2 minutes to load 5 gallons. It is not the least bit tiring and I'm don't pump iron (pun intended). Far weaker is the 140 lb pilot who I share the hangar with, who also uses this pump for his Sonex and he is 73 years old. 



The pump I plan to buy is not a crank type but a lever type pump which has three positions for placing the fulcrum/pivot pin so the user can pick from high volume, high effort, or low volume, low effort, or medium volume with medium  effort. I do not know which of the positions is the 9 fluid oz position but don't expect any problem with it, but if I don't like it, back it goes.



--------

Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A #1574

Tennessee Prop 64x32

â€œEveryone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.â€

Daniel Patrick Moynihan





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319580#319580http://www.matronics.com/csp;                 -Matt Dralle, Le vigator?RotaxEngines-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigat=               - MATRONICS =========





	
 [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: Oil pressure

Thom- I never used a plastic one.  I would be concerned with grounding, no matter the type.  And the mention of a non-lubricating fluid makes sense.  Methanol used to leak a lot.



--- On Tue, 11/16/10, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Oil pressure

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 10:53 AM



 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>



Bill,



Yes, but the current manual says specifically that it is not to be used with gasoline or diesel. I presume the reason is that the body is cast iron and the internal components are steel, there is a remote chance that a spark could occur and ruin your day. I've used this one for more than a year and it seals fine and works well, but I'm not willing to count on it once I read the warning. 



Fortunately, Harbor Freight has a plastic one rated for gasoline etc. for $26 which I will be buying very soon. 



http://www.harborfreight.com/general-purpose-barrel-pump-66335.html



--------

Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY  (9G0)

Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A #1574

Tennessee Prop 64x32

â€œEveryone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.â€

Daniel Patrick Moynihan





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewto=   this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided

nbsp;--> http://foru======================





	
 [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

Not very many pumps are rated for gasoline. You must get one that specifies it is rated for gasoline use. If it says diesel it is not rated for gasoline. The UL rating tells you it is safe for gasoline use. If it is not rated for gas then seals will eventually leak. I looked for a while before I found a UL rated gasoline pump. My 12V gasoline rated pump fuels at 13 gal per min. It has been a great pump for 4 years so far and not one issue.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Last edited by Roger Lee on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: Oil pressure

To add to this the description of the tank says "Not for fuels or oils". I'm not sure if the problem is real or not.



-- Craig



--

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: Oil pressure

I've had something similar for the Blitz gas cans. Gets real old pumping something up and down, rotary motion is far easier. In the end that was what led me to make the Shuttle fueling tower so I could just pour fuel without all the obstruction of wings, struts and such. Much easier and faster. Going out to saw material for the front mount blocks. Sunny and 60's on the great plains today. Can't fly, might as well machine something.

Rick



On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>

  

 Rick,

 

 It sounds like a lot of work but in reality is not.

 

 The cast iron pump I have been using is 16 revolutions per gallon which is 80 revs per 5 gallons. Each rev is one cup (8 fluid oz.) At one rev./second (about normal pumping rate) it takes less than 1 1/2 minutes to load 5 gallons. It is not the least bit tiring and I'm don't pump iron (pun intended). Far weaker is the 140 lb pilot who I share the hangar with, who also uses this pump for his Sonex and he is 73 years old.

  

 The pump I plan to buy is not a crank type but a lever type pump which has three positions for placing the fulcrum/pivot pin so the user can pick from high volume, high effort, or low volume, low effort, or medium volume with medium effort. I do not know which of the positions is the 9 fluid oz position but don't expect any problem with it, but if I don't like it, back it goes.

  

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY (9G0)

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x32

 

 

 “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”

 Daniel Patrick Moynihan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319580#319580

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

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  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure

Craig,



High density polyethylene, the material my tank is made from, is the same stuff that the red plastic jerry cans are made from. I also checked with the manufacturer before purchasing and they confirmed they are fine for gasoline. So far, over a year experience with it has shown no problems, no discoloration, nothing. It sure seems impervious to gasoline to me. 



Rick,

I agree that in principle that cranking a full rev can be easier than operating a lever because the mechanical advantage is probably higher. But the crank type is so easy that a little harder should not be too bad. I bought one today and will be installing and trying it out on Thursday.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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