Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Z-13/8 Rev. R

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

 	  Quote: 	
		      Thanks for the reminder! I think I'll take those

    out.



    Bob . . .


	


    I've done some house-keeping on Z-13/8 and published

    a preliminary drawing at:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z13-8R%28Prelimary%29.pdf



    Interested parties are invited to make suggestions

    or make we aware of stubbed toes . . .

   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

s.blanton(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

Bob,  

   

In Rev. R of Z-13/8 I note a couple  of changes that I hope you can clarify for me.  

   

The diodes are gone on the S704-1 relay for the dynamo. Is this intentional?  

Is the deletion of the resistor across the capacitor also intentional?  

Why the change from a fusible link to a fuse rating approx. 3x for the circuit protection for the dynamo?  

   

Thanks for furthering my electrical education.  

   

Stan Blanton  

   

   

   

   

       [quote][b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

At 02:33 PM 11/17/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,



In Rev. R of Z-13/8 I note a couple  of changes that I hope you can 

clarify for me.



The diodes are gone on the S704-1 relay for the dynamo. Is this intentional?


	


   Yes, those were part of the "dead battery" scenario. The pair

   of diodes allowed the self-excited SD-8 to close its own

   connect relay even if the battery was dead . . . a situation

   that is exceedingly low probability for a well designed/operated/

   maintained OBAM aircraft.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Is the deletion of the resistor across the capacitor also intentional?


	


   Yes



 	  Quote: 	
		  Why the change from a fusible link to a fuse rating approx. 3x for 

the circuit protection for the dynamo?


	


   Fusible links are okay . . . but I was thinking

   of 'tightening up' wiring between the battery (always

   hot) and the SD-8 disconnect relay. This pathway needs

   to be as short as practical. A fusible link in this location

   COULD have been simply a short piece of 20AWG, but

   it seemed a bit cleaner (faster and less smoke) to have

   a real fuse in there . . . the commercial off the shelf

   fuse holder comes with lead wires . . . hence the

   replacement. 30A rating is less likely to pop due to

   inrush charging the capacitor.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Thanks for furthering my electrical education.


	


   Thanks for asking. I should point out that this is

   NOT a recommendation that anyone run out to the hangar

   and replace RevQ with RevR . . . this is just another

   step along the trail that evolved this architecture.

   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

Bob,



Thanks for your work on this.  Couple minor points and some questions.



1) Your drawing is for one Emag and one Pmag as shown in the lower right

powered from different busses, but the battery bus on the left shows L and R

ignitions powered from there.

2) Again, at the battery bus, the 15amp fuse feeds a short 14AWG wire to the

relay.  The relay control wire to the switch is 22AWG, and again from same

switch to ground.  Shouldn't these wires also be 14AWG?  I noticed on the

previous version of the drawing last night, and it shows up in the aux

alternator circuit too.

3) Shouldn't the fuselink feeding the E-bus be located at the feed end (next

to the relay)?.

4) For some reason, I think the relay, load shunt, capacitor, crow bar

components etc for the aux alt circuit should be located on the cockpit side

of the firewall (possibly for a cleaner more cooler environment).  Is this

true?  Further, the drawing shows the capacitor grounded at the firewall

ground bus. Is there any problem grounding it at the avionics buss instead

which is closer in my current layout?

5)  You've got 5X20 AWG wires between the firewall ground and avionics

ground busses.  Is this intended to be on the same PIDG connector as shown

or 5 separate connectors?  If it's on the same connector, why not just use a

heavier equivalent wire?  Say 12AWG.

6) Where can I buy a low voltage module?  The one shown doesn't seem to be

on the B and C website.



Thanks,



Bevan

RV7A wiring

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

Bob,



Thanks for your work on this.  Couple minor points and some questions.



1) Your drawing is for one Emag and one Pmag as shown in the lower right

powered from different busses, but the battery bus on the left shows L and R

ignitions powered from there.



    That's an artifact from an earlier cut-n-paste. Good catch.

    Fixed.



2) Again, at the battery bus, the 15amp fuse feeds a short 14AWG wire to the

relay.  The relay control wire to the switch is 22AWG, and again from same

switch to ground.  Shouldn't these wires also be 14AWG?



     No, these wires carry relay control current only which is

     perhaps 150 mA. This is not unlike the wire that controls

     the battery contactor too.



3) Shouldn't the fuselink feeding the E-bus be located at the feed end (next

to the relay)?.



    No, that feedpath can be powered from BOTH ends hence protection

    at both ends. But you reminded me of another feature I wanted

    to fix. A faulted fuse at the e-bus end is much faster and less likely

    to damage the e-bus normal feedpath diode. I've revised to suggest

    fuse protection at that end as opposed to fusible link.

4) For some reason, I think the relay, load shunt, capacitor, crow bar

components etc for the aux alt circuit should be located on the cockpit side

of the firewall (possibly for a cleaner more cooler environment).  Is this

true?



    Not a big deal. Obviously it's cooler and cleaner in the

    cabin but at the same time, keeping all the high power

    wires out on the firewall is probably preferred.



  Further, the drawing shows the capacitor grounded at the firewall

ground bus. Is there any problem grounding it at the avionics buss instead

which is closer in my current layout?



     NO! That wire carries a lot of ripple current which

     is the byproduct of smoothing the SD-8 output . . . you

     don't want to inject that into the avionics ground. I

     think I'd keep all that alternator stuff on the forward

     side of the firewall.

5)  You've got 5X20 AWG wires between the firewall ground and avionics

ground busses.  Is this intended to be on the same PIDG connector as shown

or 5 separate connectors?



     5 separate connectors at the firewall and 5 separate

     pins in the panel ground d-sub.

   If it's on the same connector, why not just use a

   heavier equivalent wire?  Say 12AWG.



     Use a 12AWG if you want to solder the wire to your

     panel ground connector like shown here



http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Minibus1.jpg

6) Where can I buy a low voltage module?  The one shown doesn't seem to be

on the B and C website.



    That's one of my devices which will be the next

    product out the gate here. If you need it right

    now, Eric Jones has one.

   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

Erich_Weaver(at)urscorp.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

Minor comments to consider: 

 

My local experience is that most everyone building these days, even those on a budget,  are installing engine monitors. Stand-alone low voltage monitors are not required.  Similarly, alternator load meters and their associated shunts have been replaced by Hall effect sensors and the engine monitor.  Maybe its time to modernize the schematic to reflect this?  Just a thought... 



 Erich [quote][b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

PaulR

Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Alabama

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Z-13/8 Rev. R

Bob,

I was under the impression that EMAG Air had discontinued the "E" mag and was only making/selling the "P" mag.  Just thinking that if you're revising it, maybe worthwhile to look into that also.

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Paul Rose
N417PR
RV-9A

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

At 02:26 PM 11/18/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bob,

I was under the impression that EMAG Air had discontinued the "E" 

mag and was only making/selling the "P" mag.  Just thinking that if 

you're revising it, maybe worthwhile to look into that also.


	


   Interesting. Thanks for the heads-up. I note that the

   e-models are not priced on the website. I've not talked

   with those guys for awhile, I need to give them a call

   and catch up.

   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject: Z-13/8 Rev. R

At 11:46 AM 11/18/2010, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Minor comments to consider: 



 My local experience is that most everyone building these days, even those on a budget,  are installing engine monitors. Stand-alone low voltage monitors are not required.  Similarly, alternator load meters and their associated shunts have been replaced by Hall effect sensors and the engine monitor.  Maybe its time to modernize the schematic to reflect this?  Just a thought... 	


   The Z-figures are not a "do it this way" document.

   They're an example of an ARCHITECTURE which speaks

   to failure tolerance for a particular combination

   of flight-profile-driven battery and alternator

   decisions.



   Whether or not a particular airplane is fitted with

   the accessories illustrated is not germane to the

   intent and purpose of the Z-figure. There's an endless

   combination of accessories that may drive sizes of

   busses, sizes of battery, size of alternator, sizes

   of wires, choices of ignition systems and yes . . .

   methodology for monitoring any of the ship's functions.



   The most important thing to consider for LV monitoring

   is timely, unambiguous and attention getting notification

   for "time to switch to plan-b". If the builder has some

   alternative means for accomplishing that, great. The

   reason for having it in the Z-figure is to simply remind

   the planner that SOME form of device needs to be a

   part of the final recipe for success.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum