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1991 AOPA Kitfox article

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

Lets see if this works.  Attached is an AOPA article about the then newly introduced model 4 kitfox.  Just remember the article is 19 years old and even more improvement's have been added to the Model 4 since.  Myself I consider the model 4 to be the last of the real kitfoxes.  Can you tell I'm biased?  I lifted the article off another forum.



Edited to clarify:  Not meant to say the model 4 is best and others are inferior.  The earlier models have light weight and a super stall wing I really like.  I would also love to own a new kitfox.

KitFox Article AOPA 1991-1.doc

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Last edited by Tom Jones on Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total

Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

I agree with you!

  

 I have flown every model   even the 2009 ( Test Flew Stan  Albrights a few weeks ago)   and they are all great but the 4  is  the greatest!

  

 Dave

  

  In a message dated 11/21/2010 8:32:42 A.M. Central Standard Time,  nahsikhs(at)elltel.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones"    <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>



Lets see if this works.  Attached is    an AOPA article about the then newly introduced model 4 kitfox.  Just    remember the article is 19 years old and even more improvement's have been    added to the Model 4 since.  Myself I consider the model 4 to be the last    of the real kitfoxes.  Can you tell I'm biased?  I lifted the    article off another forum.



--------

Tom Jones

Classic IV

503    Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

Ellensburg, WA





Read this    topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320331#320331





Attachments:    



http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_article_aopa_1991_1_10========================nbsp;             (And Get Some AWESOME FREE     to find   Gifts       ilder's  ELP  b  k you for  p;                        -Matt Dralle,    List  ========================   the  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ==================================================



	


  [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:45 am Post subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

Tom,

I got to agree with you about the IV being one of the Best Kitfox at least over the 1,2 and 3 models.



Took my amphibs off last weekend and now i gone from a 800 fpm climb to 12 to 1400 fpm climb.



feels like a rocket now but it only a Kitfox. 

I reported your article in full so no downloaded needed. 



http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=333

_________________
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

Tom,



Thanks for the link.  I agree with your thoughts.  I am two or three months 

from completing my second IV.  I wouldn't have it any other way.



Lowell



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 6:28 AM

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lets see if this works.  Attached is an AOPA article about the then newly 

 introduced model 4 kitfox.  Just remember the article is 19 years old and 

 even more improvement's have been added to the Model 4 since.  Myself I 

 consider the model 4 to be the last of the real kitfoxes.  Can you tell 

 I'm biased?  I lifted the article off another forum.



 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320331#320331





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_article_aopa_1991_1_104.doc

mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

Thanks for attaching that article. I'd not seen it before. Mark Cook is such an excellent writer. 



Often when I run into other Kitfox builders who claim superior performance of their later models, I tell them with a large grin that the purchase of my Model I helped finance the development of their improved aircraft. 



Ahh, the Model I. If it weren't for the roll axis, the Model I would not be stable in any axis. It wallows in yaw like a Wright Flyer. And in pitch, when left to its own devices, goes into ever-increasing phugoids - in the words of Buzz Lightyear, to infinity and beyond. The fourth axis, thrust, isn't stable either, thanks to the torque-peaky 532, thus requiring constant attention to RPM with small changes in airspeed, which varies with small changes in pitch, which occurs with small amounts of turbulence. This thrust-airspeed-pitch coupling is a sight to behold, as is the yaw-roll coupling. 



My aircraft is set up correctly. I built it 16 years ago to the plans with no modifications whatsoever. It's CG is correct, it's controls are properly rigged. This is just the way a Model I performs. 



Yet in smooth air, it will fly five minutes straight without touching the controls. It's such a light touch that I fork the stick with two fingers and just nudge it around, much like the touch of flying a helicopter. In turbulent air, however, I can't unfold a map without finding myself in unusual attitudes and sometimes have to use fistfulls to keep it upright. But less stability means agility, and it is agile to be sure. And it has a demonstrated 20-kt crosswind capability, and I do mean demonstrated. 



That STOL airfoil gets me into trouble with the guys at the airport, especially when I give Young Eagles rides - some pilots absolutely insist that I'm hot-dogging my take-offs because of the climb attitude when in fact all I'm doing is simply keeping Vy. 



But my Model I has taught me some stick-and-rudder skills that can't be appreciated in something like a 152. And it's a family member, in need of improvement but still loved. 



Mike Perkins

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:59 am Post subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

There's a fellow here in town that is just about finished building a Model I Kitfox. I'm anxious to see it fly.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

Cool, I think this forum is a good place for a couple questions I have had about the IV vs. the III.  I love my III but have considered moving to a IV but can not find answers to some of my questions.



1. What is the cabin width?  The III is cramped at best especially if the doors are on and I would like to have a little more shoulder room for when taking friends flying.



2. How is the STOL in comparison to a III?  To the best of what I can find published online the IVs stall speed is about 30% higher, that is pretty significant even though 39 mph is not exactly burning it in.



3. Vne is 120 mph for the IV right?



4. Does the IV have the adjustable rudder pedals?  What can I say, I am short.



Thanks for any questions you all can answer.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:43 am Post subject: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

James,

I might take a stab at this.



My cabin width is just a tad over 38".  The doors bow out but that would be 

at the elbow width and I guess that would add about another four inches or 

so there.



In the typical full stall landing, I thing you would have a higher stall 

speed.  I have a friend in Idaho who just finished his third Model IV and 

his last comment to me was that he was able to land at 35 mph indicated.  I 

asked about power at flair and he said he goes to 3500 rpm and lands behind 

the power curve.  I guess if you did that on both airplanes the III would 

still beat the IV, but if you have been landing full stall, you can practice 

and become proficient on the power on touch.



VNE is 125 mph.  I guess the 120 comes in because it is tough finding an ASI 

that is calibrated to a max speed in that area.  My ASI pegs at 120. 

Falcon sells an ASI that reads to 140 mph.  Then again, we have been told - 

factory info- that the VNE is actually determined by windshield thickness. 

So of you are diving into that back country canyon, watch the Lexan begin to 

cave in then slow down - my opinion.



No in cockpit adjustable rudder pedals.  The manual calls for adjusting 

links in the rudder cables so you can by removing a bolt sliding to another 

hole in the link, you can shorten the cables, essentially moving the pedals 

aft, which is what you are after.  Sort of like "KISS".



Lowell



--------------------------------------------------

From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>

Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 5:33 AM

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>



 Cool, I think this forum is a good place for a couple questions I have had 

 about the IV vs. the III.  I love my III but have considered moving to a 

 IV but can not find answers to some of my questions.



 1. What is the cabin width?  The III is cramped at best especially if the 

 doors are on and I would like to have a little more shoulder room for when 

 taking friends flying.



 2. How is the STOL in comparison to a III?  To the best of what I can find 

 published online the IVs stall speed is about 30% higher, that is pretty 

 significant even though 39 mph is not exactly burning it in.



 3. Vne is 120 mph for the IV right?



 4. Does the IV have the adjustable rudder pedals?  What can I say, I am 

 short.



 Thanks for any questions you all can answer.



 --------

 James

 Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70&quot; IVO 2 blade GA

 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,

      now she lies in wait





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321360#321360

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

James 

m

You can make adjustable rudders pedal I am 5' 9" and no probles in the ones I flown , Kitfox 1,2,3 and 4.



I prefer the IV over the other 3. Cabin about 4 inches wider at shoulders. You can modify the doors on earlier models to add a little width. 

Mine stall around 37 mph.  I never had one stall at the published 26 to 30 mph unless it weights about 350 lbs........  

Check out my videos and put your up to compare. 

Hey I think I might go for afly today  -got 4 kitoxes at my strip today.



Compare to my IV  for STOL ops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed1VRxzH0iU



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itqyBYxU0lU



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0COIbiwm9g



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1qKTvHOAg

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

On 11/28/2010 5:33 AM, WurlyBird wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   1. What is the cabin width?  The III is cramped at best especially if the doors are on and I would like to have a little more shoulder room for when taking friends flying.

    

Same.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   2. How is the STOL in comparison to a III?  To the best of what I can find published online the IVs stall speed is about 30% higher, that is pretty significant even though 39 mph is not exactly burning it in.

    

Worse. You've got it right, the stall speed is higher because the wing 
	


section is flatter but no thicker.

 	  Quote: 	
		   3. Vne is 120 mph for the IV right?

    

Right, though I'm told you can do 140 with thicker windshields, a la the 
	


Speedster.

 	  Quote: 	
		   4. Does the IV have the adjustable rudder pedals?  What can I say, I am short.

    

No, the IV is the same as the III in that regard. Install a thick, comfy 
	


seat, and you should be fine.



Guy Buchanan

Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C changing to 912s / Warp 3cs / 500 hours.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

Thanks guys.  I would hate to say exactly what speed I land at since my ASI is low at low speeds and high at high speed, but solo it is fantastically slow in a power off and the back side is ridiculous and brings a big grin to my face.  I am too busy outside to see what the ASI is saying but in a light headwind she will get nose high enough to block the runway and feel like a walking pace.  We call it hover taxiing.  Just have to be careful of crosswind gusts.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1991 AOPA Kitfox article

Dave,

    Trust me, I watch your videos frequently, I can't tell you how much I miss flying my Fox.  Rest assured that once I get home and she is back up I will post video.  Especially if I get the 700E, we can have a video fly off     Take it easy.



James

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

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