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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:25 pm Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Sir Barry & All,
Whilst researching something entirely unrelated, I stumbled onto this web site regarding moving "Air Force One."
I bet there are some people here who can add some real information about this aircraft.
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/04/retired-air-force-one-plane-will-be-on_18.html
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
[quote][b]
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Morning Wing Commander Gordon,
It is nice that the Presidential Commander is being given a home where it can be viewed, but it is sad that the article which described the move has so many inaccuracies. Sure is odd that anyone is so uninformed that they will look at propellors and still call an airplane a jet.
It would be nice if someone had mentioned that Ike was the first (only?) US president who held a civilian pilot certificate.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/4/2010 11:14:59 P.M. Central Standard Time, cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | Sir Barry & All,
Whilst researching something entirely unrelated, I stumbled onto this web site regarding moving "Air Force One."
I bet there are some people here who can add some real information about this aircraft.
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/04/retired-air-force-one-plane-will-be-on_18.html
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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OOOPS!
One more error in the article.
It said: “This is the first twin-engine airplane that any president ever flew in.”
Not sure about any other president (Teddy Roosevelt did fly in a single engine airplane while he was President) but Ike flew to Camp David and probably to Gettysburg in a Twin Bonanza before he got the Commander. The T-Bone was replaced with the Commander after Ike's wife slipped on the boarding step of the original T-Bone.
The Commander was acquired to get rid of that three step access bar.
Unfortunately, she still refused to fly in "those small airplanes" so the Commander did not get as much use as it might have had Mamie not slipped on the T-Bone step.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/5/2010 5:59:22 A.M. Central Standard Time, BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/04/retired-air-force-one-plane-will-be-on_18.html
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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barry.collman(at)air-brit
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Hi Keith,
I think all will be revealed in the not-too-distant future!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S. Gordon
Sent: 05 December 2010 02:15
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander photo / video
Sir Barry & All,
Whilst researching something entirely unrelated, I stumbled onto this web site regarding moving "Air Force One."
I bet there are some people here who can add some real information about this aircraft.
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/04/retired-air-force-one-plane-will-be-on_18.html
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
01234567890123456
[quote][b]
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bertberry1(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Morning All,
The 680 that was used by President Eisenhower while president was at a museum in Patterson La, PTN. Hurricane Katrina did severe damage to the building and it had to be torn down. A new building was constructed a few miles away. I'm unclear wether it was a money issue or a room issue, but whatever the case, it was given to a new museum in Houma, La HUM. It was transported by barge to it's new home.
Bert
On Dec 5, 2010, at 7:39 AM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk (barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk)> wrote:
[quote]
Hi Keith,
I think all will be revealed in the not-too-distant future!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S. Gordon
Sent: 05 December 2010 02:15
To: [url=mailto:commander-list(at)matronics.com]commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Commander photo / video
Sir Barry & All,
Whilst researching something entirely unrelated, I stumbled onto this web site regarding moving "Air Force One."
I bet there are some people here who can add some real information about this aircraft.
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/04/retired-air-force-one-plane-will-be-on_18.html
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
01234567890123456
7
[b]
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comserv500s(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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The 680 used by Ike was only the first official designated Commander. The air force had a fleet of some 15 Aero Commanders, (560A & 560A-HC), L26-A & L26-B. One of the fleet, which is now N382JH was based at Livermore, Ca. It was acquired for a customer from the former owner John Hoffman, Stuart, Fl. by Commander Services. The air force bureau #'s are still stencilled on all engine cowlings. A friend who was a retired air force officer, was in Hayward one day when N382JH was there for maintenance, & saw the numbers on an engine cowling. He remarked that he had flown Ike & Mamie in that airplane, & later faxed a copy of his log book entry with the air force number, along with the notation in remarks,"Ike & Mamie, Camp David". I participated in the ceremony at Wright-Patterson of the presentation of the first 680 "air Force One" The airplane was restored & donated by JW Duff Aircraft, Denver, Co. The Presidential seal could not be affixed to the airplane for the flight. It was placed on the aircraft during the presentation. Just a little Commander history from Morris Kernick, Commander Services
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:55 AM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] Good Morning Wing Commander Gordon,
It is nice that the Presidential Commander is being given a home where it can be viewed, but it is sad that the article which described the move has so many inaccuracies. Sure is odd that anyone is so uninformed that they will look at propellors and still call an airplane a jet.
It would be nice if someone had mentioned that Ike was the first (only?) US president who held a civilian pilot certificate.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/4/2010 11:14:59 P.M. Central Standard Time, cloudcraft(at)aol.com (cloudcraft(at)aol.com) writes:
| Quote: | Sir Barry & All,
Whilst researching something entirely unrelated, I stumbled onto this web site regarding moving "Air Force One."
I bet there are some people here who can add some real information about this aircraft.
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/04/retired-air-force-one-plane-will-be-on_18.html
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
|
| Quote: |
"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Afternoon Morris,
Are you sure it was the first one? I note that the article stated it was a 1956 model and Ike was using the Commander long before that. My guess was that the Mamie incident happened in 1953.
She must have relented as my informants said that she would not ride in any small airplane after skinning her shin climbing up that T-Bone series of steps. If you have ever seen the abominable translating set of stairs that Beech used on the D50C T-Bone, you might have also heard that the Beech factory workers had nicknamed those the Mamie Eisenhower stairs because they were developed following the injury she received
I kinda think the first presidential Commander was a 520.
I also have been told the T-Bone was an Army airplane, not an Air Force one. No idea as to who supplied the Commander.
A disaster for Beechcraft, but the greatest boon Aero Commander ever experienced.
Once the Commander became the official Presidential airplane, sales increased dramatically.
My recollection is that the strip at Camp David measured right at 1600 feet. So much for accelerate/stop calculations!
Seemed OK to me as I was flying both an early 520 and an early T-Bone at that time and I did operate both on occasion from a 1600 foot strip, but only at very light weights.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
PS I said earlier that Teddy Roosevelt flew in a Wright while he was President. I read later this morning that he did that after he had retired from the Presidency. In any case, that WAS before my time!
In a message dated 12/5/2010 11:36:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, comserv500s(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | The 680 used by Ike was only the first official designated Commander. The air force had a fleet of some 15 Aero Commanders, (560A & 560A-HC), L26-A & L26-B. One of the fleet, which is now N382JH was based at Livermore, Ca. It was acquired for a customer from the former owner John Hoffman, Stuart, Fl. by Commander Services. The air force bureau #'s are still stencilled on all engine cowlings. A friend who was a retired air force officer, was in Hayward one day when N382JH was there for maintenance, & saw the numbers on an engine cowling. He remarked that he had flown Ike & Mamie in that airplane, & later faxed a copy of his log book entry with the air force number, along with the notation in remarks, "Ike & Mamie, Camp David" . I participated in the ceremony at Wright-Patterson of the presentation of the first 680 "air Force One" The airplane was restored & donated by JW Duff Aircraft, Denver, Co. The Presidential seal could not be affixed to the airplane for the flight. It was placed on the aircraft during the presentation. Just a little Commander history from Morris Kernick, Commander Services
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:55 AM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Good Morning Wing Commander Gordon,
It is nice that the Presidential Commander is being given a home where it can be viewed, but it is sad that the article which described the move has so many inaccuracies. Sure is odd that anyone is so uninformed that they will look at propellors and still call an airplane a jet.
It would be nice if someone had mentioned that Ike was the first (only?) US president who held a civilian pilot certificate.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Hello Bob,
The first Commander used by Ike was a Model 560, which was leased from the Factory pending delivery of the first of the 15 x 560A Models ordered by the USAF.
The 560 was s/n 224, N2724B and was designated by the USAF as an L-26A.
The 560A Models were designated L-26B and after the last two in the order for 15 were changed to Model 680, they were designated L-26C.
The US Army, however, did have 3 x Model 520, plus a few more later Models, such as 680, 680E, a 680FLP & a 680W.
Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: 05 December 2010 19:00
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
Good Afternoon Morris,
Are you sure it was the first one? I note that the article stated it was a 1956 model and Ike was using the Commander long before that. My guess was that the Mamie incident happened in 1953.
She must have relented as my informants said that she would not ride in any small airplane after skinning her shin climbing up that T-Bone series of steps. If you have ever seen the abominable translating set of stairs that Beech used on the D50C T-Bone, you might have also heard that the Beech factory workers had nicknamed those the Mamie Eisenhower stairs because they were developed following the injury she received
I kinda think the first presidential Commander was a 520.
I also have been told the T-Bone was an Army airplane, not an Air Force one. No idea as to who supplied the Commander.
A disaster for Beechcraft, but the greatest boon Aero Commander ever experienced.
Once the Commander became the official Presidential airplane, sales increased dramatically.
My recollection is that the strip at Camp David measured right at 1600 feet. So much for accelerate/stop calculations!
Seemed OK to me as I was flying both an early 520 and an early T-Bone at that time and I did operate both on occasion from a 1600 foot strip, but only at very light weights.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
PS I said earlier that Teddy Roosevelt flew in a Wright while he was President. I read later this morning that he did that after he had retired from the Presidency. In any case, that WAS before my time!
In a message dated 12/5/2010 11:36:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, comserv500s(at)gmail.com (comserv500s(at)gmail.com) writes:
| Quote: |
The 680 used by Ike was only the first official designated Commander. The air force had a fleet of some 15 Aero Commanders, (560A & 560A-HC), L26-A & L26-B. One of the fleet, which is now N382JH was based at Livermore, Ca. It was acquired for a customer from the former owner John Hoffman, Stuart, Fl. by Commander Services. The air force bureau #'s are still stencilled on all engine cowlings. A friend who was a retired air force officer, was in Hayward one day when N382JH was there for maintenance, & saw the numbers on an engine cowling. He remarked that he had flown Ike & Mamie in that airplane, & later faxed a copy of his log book entry with the air force number, along with the notation in remarks, "Ike & Mamie, Camp David" . I participated in the ceremony at Wright-Patterson of the presentation of the first 680 "air Force One" The airplane was restored & donated by JW Duff Aircraft, Denver, Co. The Presidential seal could not be affixed to the airplane for the flight. It was placed on the aircraft during the presentation. Just a little Commander history from Morris Kernick, Commander Services
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:55 AM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
Good Morning Wing Commander Gordon,
It is nice that the Presidential Commander is being given a home where it can be viewed, but it is sad that the article which described the move has so many inaccuracies. Sure is odd that anyone is so uninformed that they will look at propellors and still call an airplane a jet.
It would be nice if someone had mentioned that Ike was the first (only?) US president who held a civilian pilot certificate.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:56 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Afternoon Barry,
Does that mean the Army flew Ike in the 520 or did he continue to use the D50 T-Bone until he got the Commander and not take Mamie along?
I had heard she took a limousine to Camp David after the T-Bone incident.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/5/2010 1:38:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk writes:
| Quote: |
Hello Bob,
The first Commander used by Ike was a Model 560, which was leased from the Factory pending delivery of the first of the 15 x 560A Models ordered by the USAF.
The 560 was s/n 224, N2724B and was designated by the USAF as an L-26A.
The 560A Models were designated L-26B and after the last two in the order for 15 were changed to Model 680, they were designated L-26C.
The US Army, however, did have 3 x Model 520, plus a few more later Models, such as 680, 680E, a 680FLP & a 680W.
Best Regards,
Barry
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Hi Bob,
No, the Army would not have flown Ike in one of the 520’s.
I’ve not heard that Ike used a D50 before!
All the references I’ve seen quote the Commander as being the first twin-engined aircraft considered safe enough for Presidential use.
The D-50 was designated as the L-23 for the US Army. Did the USAF actually have any?
I ask because, in those days, I think US Army aviation was controlled by the USAF and I think all Presidential flights were carried out by the USAF.
But then, my knowledge of matters military is not too good (the back of a postage stamp scenario).
Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: 05 December 2010 19:54
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
Good Afternoon Barry,
Does that mean the Army flew Ike in the 520 or did he continue to use the D50 T-Bone until he got the Commander and not take Mamie along?
I had heard she took a limousine to Camp David after the T-Bone incident.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/5/2010 1:38:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk (barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk) writes:
| Quote: |
Hello Bob,
The first Commander used by Ike was a Model 560, which was leased from the Factory pending delivery of the first of the 15 x 560A Models ordered by the USAF.
The 560 was s/n 224, N2724B and was designated by the USAF as an L-26A.
The 560A Models were designated L-26B and after the last two in the order for 15 were changed to Model 680, they were designated L-26C.
The US Army, however, did have 3 x Model 520, plus a few more later Models, such as 680, 680E, a 680FLP & a 680W.
Best Regards,
Barry
|
01234567890123456
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Evening Barry,
My betting knowledge is no better than yours. I am not even certain of the time frame. The one thing that I will bet on is that the T-Bone was used by Eisenhower before the Aero Commander and that the T-Bone was dumped in favor of the Aero Commander when Mamie skinned her shin. And that was definitely after he was inaugurated
I received that information not only from Beechcraft sources, but from Army aviators of the era. I do believe there was some argument between the services as to how Army aviation functions were to be handled. I also know that after Ike's election and before he was inaugurated, he was allowed to visitKorea with Harry Truman's blessing to get a personal view of how things were going. That would have been in the late fall of 1952. While there, he was assigned a T-Bone and a pilot to fly him around the country.
Of that, there is no doubt.
Rumor has it that Ike did fly the airplane from the left seat on occasion. He held a civilian pilots license at that time and was current in the single engine Bonanza. I think we can all agree that the T-Bone is one of the most gentle airplanes ever. There is no way for me to substantiate whether or not Ike flew the T-Bone from the left seat as all official sources would certainly have denied that fact if it did occur.
There was also considerable discussion that the main reason the Columbine was a Connie instead of a DC-6 as was Harry's airplane (The Independence) is because Rusty Draper had flown Eisenhower in a Connie when Ike was a five star General.
There was considerable rumor that Ike often flew the Connie from the left seat. Once again, you can be sure that all officialdom would keep that rather quiet.
If you were a General Of The Armies and an avid aviator, don't you think you might try the left seat occasionally? <G>
Flying magazine had an article in the early sixties written by a military pilot who claimed to have checked out Ike in a Stearman during his stint on MacArther's staff in the Philippines prior to WWII.. Said it wasn't quite in compliance with Army regulations, but that Ike handled the Stearman very well and flew it solo often.
Lots of rumors out there, but I would say there is a very high probability that some of them are true.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/5/2010 2:16:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Bob,
No, the Army would not have flown Ike in one of the 520’s.
I've not heard that Ike used a D 50 before!
All the references I've seen quote the Commander as being the first twin-engine aircraft considered safe enough for Presidential use.
The D-50 was designated as the L-23 for the US Army. Did the USAF actually have any?
I ask because, in those days, I think US Army aviation was controlled by the USAF and I think all Presidential flights were carried out by the USAF.
But then, my knowledge of matters military is not too good (the back of a postage stamp scenario).
Best Regards,
Barry
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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I saw the 'jet' reference, too. Typical journalism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 3:55 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
Good Morning Wing Commander Gordon,
It is nice that the Presidential Commander is being given a home where it can be viewed, but it is sad that the article which described the move has so many inaccuracies. Sure is odd that anyone is so uninformed that they will look at propellors and still call an airplane a jet.
It would be nice if someone had mentioned that Ike was the first (only?) US president who held a civilian pilot certificate.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/4/2010 11:14:59 P.M. Central Standard Time, cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | Sir Barry & All,
Whilst researching something entirely unrelated, I stumbled onto this web site regarding moving "Air Force One."
I bet there are some people here who can add some real information about this aircraft.
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/04/retired-air-force-one-plane-will-be-on_18.html
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
|
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href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
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barry.collman(at)air-brit
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Hi again Bob,
Well, I’m certainly no expert on military aviation and therefore have no reference material here that would be of any help.
However, within Air-Britain (Historians) we have Specialists in many aspects of aviation and there is an online Forum called “AB-IX” (Air-Britain Information Exchange).
People can ask questions they are unable to resolve themselves and the vast majority of them get answered by other people who have the required knowledge or expertise.
I therefore posed a question yesterday as to whether President Eisenhower had a Beech D-50 (L-23) at his disposal.
One guy replied that the only two items on Presidential aircraft that he has available (American Aviation Historical Society, Issue 2 1963 and Flying magazine, August 1990), make no mention of a Beech being used by the President.
Another guy, our Specialist on the Beech 18, doesn’t remember seeing any reference to Eisenhower using a Twin Bonanza in Beech histories, literature or newsletters.
He did add though that the USAF did actually have at least one example of the L-23. Designated as an XL-23C, 55-3465 c/n CH-123 "Long Tom", had extended floating wing panels for an experimental project. Mfg 1955, project ended 19Dec56.
This is from Dick Ward's book "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza" 1998.
As an aside, another guy says “I visited Weston Executive Airport, just outside Dublin, in June of 2008. On being accompanied around the hangars my colleagues and I were shown a Beech C-45H, G-BSZC , c/n AF258, Built 1952, formerly N9541Z and 51-11701A. She was named Southern Comfort and carried USAF under the port wing. We were told that this aircraft had been used at some time by President Eisenhower, and whilst I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story, we accepted the comment at face value at the time.”
To this, our Beech 18 Specialist replied “I first came across this claim online and it accompanied a photo for sale of G-BSZC. They claimed that it belonged "to ex-president Eisenhower and flown by Paul Tibbet [sic Tibbets] of Enola Gay WWII." I'm not sure if the claim is that Eisenhower flew in it while it was in service with SAC in the USAF and he was President (1953-1961) or that he owned it as a civilian (he retired to a farm in Gettysburg, PA & died in Mar69). According to FAA files he didn't own it. Perhaps the USAF log book shows he flew in it, that would be great if that could be confirmed.”
So, Ike could have flown in a Beech D-50 (L-23), but I feel sure that one was not set aside for his permanent use.
The Commanders were, of course, and were ordered for this specific purpose.
My feeling is that Army aircraft simply wouldn’t have been used and the Commanders were operated by a unit within the USAF (1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron. A sister unit, the 1299th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron flew the President’s aides, Secret Service personnel and foreign dignitaries.
However, if your sources are adamant that an L-23 was used, we in Air-Britain would like to know more.
Does anybody have a copy of the book mentioned earlier (By Dick Ward, "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza", from 1998.)
Surely, if Eisenhower had flown in an L-23, the book would highlight that fact?
Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: 05 December 2010 21:47
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
Good Evening Barry,
My betting knowledge is no better than yours. I am not even certain of the time frame. The one thing that I will bet on is that the T-Bone was used by Eisenhower before the Aero Commander and that the T-Bone was dumped in favor of the Aero Commander when Mamie skinned her shin. And that was definitely after he was inaugurated
I received that information not only from Beechcraft sources, but from Army aviators of the era. I do believe there was some argument between the services as to how Army aviation functions were to be handled. I also know that after Ike's election and before he was inaugurated, he was allowed to visit Korea with Harry Truman's blessing to get a personal view of how things were going. That would have been in the late fall of 1952. While there, he was assigned a T-Bone and a pilot to fly him around the country.
Of that, there is no doubt.
Rumor has it that Ike did fly the airplane from the left seat on occasion. He held a civilian pilots license at that time and was current in the single engine Bonanza. I think we can all agree that the T-Bone is one of the most gentle airplanes ever. There is no way for me to substantiate whether or not Ike flew the T-Bone from the left seat as all official sources would certainly have denied that fact if it did occur.
There was also considerable discussion that the main reason the Columbine was a Connie instead of a DC-6 as was Harry's airplane (The Independence) is because Rusty Draper had flown Eisenhower in a Connie when Ike was a five star General.
There was considerable rumor that Ike often flew the Connie from the left seat. Once again, you can be sure that all officialdom would keep that rather quiet.
If you were a General Of The Armies and an avid aviator, don't you think you might try the left seat occasionally? <G>
Flying magazine had an article in the early sixties written by a military pilot who claimed to have checked out Ike in a Stearman during his stint on MacArther's staff in the Philippines prior to WWII.. Said it wasn't quite in compliance with Army regulations, but that Ike handled the Stearman very well and flew it solo often.
Lots of rumors out there, but I would say there is a very high probability that some of them are true.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/5/2010 2:16:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk (barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk) writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Bob,
No, the Army would not have flown Ike in one of the 520’s.
I've not heard that Ike used a D 50 before!
All the references I've seen quote the Commander as being the first twin-engine aircraft considered safe enough for Presidential use.
The D-50 was designated as the L-23 for the US Army. Did the USAF actually have any?
I ask because, in those days, I think US Army aviation was controlled by the USAF and I think all Presidential flights were carried out by the USAF.
But then, my knowledge of matters military is not too good (the back of a postage stamp scenario).
Best Regards,
Barry
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:13 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Morning Barry,
While I am confident that the story about Ike using a T-Bone to fly around Korea is accurate and that he used one to fly to Camp David is accurate, I doubt very much if any individual airplane was assigned to the operation. Chances are it was a routine Army airplane. As I said before, I heard the story from Army pilots, not Air Force personnel. The Army had a whole passel of T-Bones! <G>
When Mamie skinned her shin, the decision was made to get the Aero Commander to eliminate the climb up those original "steps on a stick". Beech even redesigned the access to the D50 because of it, but the damage was done.
It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met.
I am fairly familiar with Twin Beech history and I am confident that there was never a Twin Beech specifically assigned to Ike. I would imagine that he did fly in one every now and then. It was hard to be in the Army during WWII without getting in a DC-3 or a Twin Beech on occasion. He also flew in various liaison aircraft whenever it was appropriate to do so.
I also doubt that Paul Tibbets would have done any flying with Ike. Rusty Draper was his pilot during WWII and he chose him to fly the Columbine as well. If anyone would have done any flying for Ike after he left the presidency, it would have been Rusty.
The only airplanes he was assigned with which I am familiar were the Connie he used as General Of The Armies and the Columbine he used as President.
I have tried to locate the serial number of the Bonanza he used to commute between his home at Gettysburg and Teterboro when he was President of Columbia University, but have never found any proof of his ownership. It is quite possible that the Bonanza was a leased aircraft and he only used it for a very short time.
We have a small amount of D50 material at the Beechcraft Heritage Museum and I will try to see what might be there next time I get to Tullahoma.
I have discussed the Eisenhower use of a T-Bone in Korea and the initial use of a T-Bone for use to get to Camp David with several Beechcraft old timers when I attended schools or sales events at the factory.
However, I know of no written documentation of the Mamie incident.
I am absolutely confident it occurred and that Ike did use a T-Bone for at least the first flying trip to Camp David.
By the way. Are you familiar with the use Colonel Robert R McCormick made of an Aero Commander to commute from Wheaton, Illinois, to Chicago's Meigs Field to work every day?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/6/2010 7:05:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk writes:
| Quote: |
Hi again Bob,
Well, I’m certainly no expert on military aviation and therefore have no reference material here that would be of any help.
However, within Air-Britain (Historians) we have Specialists in many aspects of aviation and there is an online Forum called “AB-IX” (Air-Britain Information Exchange).
People can ask questions they are unable to resolve themselves and the vast majority of them get answered by other people who have the required knowledge or expertise.
I therefore posed a question yesterday as to whether President Eisenhower had a Beech D-50 (L-23) at his disposal.
One guy replied that the only two items on Presidential aircraft that he has available (American Aviation Historical Society, Issue 2 1963 and Flying magazine, August 1990), make no mention of a Beech being used by the President.
Another guy, our Specialist on the Beech 18, doesn’t remember seeing any reference to Eisenhower using a Twin Bonanza in Beech histories, literature or newsletters.
He did add though that the USAF did actually have at least one example of the L-23. Designated as an XL-23C, 55-3465 c/n CH-123 "Long Tom", had extended floating wing panels for an experimental project. Mfg 1955, project ended 19Dec56.
This is from Dick Ward's book "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza" 1998.
As an aside, another guy says “I visited Weston Executive Airport, just outside Dublin, in June of 2008. On being accompanied around the hangars my colleagues and I were shown a Beech C-45H, G-BSZC , c/n AF258, Built 1952, formerly N9541Z and 51-11701A. She was named Southern Comfort and carried USAF under the port wing. We were told that this aircraft had been used at some time by President Eisenhower, and whilst I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story, we accepted the comment at face value at the time.”
To this, our Beech 18 Specialist replied “I first came across this claim online and it accompanied a photo for sale of G-BSZC. They claimed that it belonged "to ex-president Eisenhower and flown by Paul Tibbet [sic Tibbets] of Enola Gay WWII." I'm not sure if the claim is that Eisenhower flew in it while it was in service with SAC in the USAF and he was President (1953-1961) or that he owned it as a civilian (he retired to a farm in Gettysburg, PA & died in Mar69). According to FAA files he didn't own it. Perhaps the USAF log book shows he flew in it, that would be great if that could be confirmed.”
So, Ike could have flown in a Beech D-50 (L-23), but I feel sure that one was not set aside for his permanent use.
The Commanders were, of course, and were ordered for this specific purpose.
My feeling is that Army aircraft simply wouldn’t have been used and the Commanders were operated by a unit within the USAF (1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron. A sister unit, the 1299th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron flew the President’s aides, Secret Service personnel and foreign dignitaries.
However, if your sources are adamant that an L-23 was used, we in Air-Britain would like to know more.
Does anybody have a copy of the book mentioned earlier (By Dick Ward, "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza", from 1998.)
Surely, if Eisenhower had flown in an L-23, the book would highlight that fact?
Best Regards,
Barry
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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met.
Old Bob,
Sometimes bad news travels slowly. I wasn't aware that Dick Ward had gone West. In the early days (as in 1996) of the Twin Commander Flight Group he and I spoke many times and shared resources that the two brands -- Beech and Aero Commander -- had in common. At one time we discussed a joint fly-in event so T-Bone and bathtub nacelled Commander owners could show the engine, prop, parts and service providers our fleet numbers.
We had a most friendly rivalry and I'm sorry to learn I won't be jousting with him any longer over why the Aero Commander was soooooo much better than the T-Bone.
Best to you -- and thank you for dropping in with your wit and wisdom every now and then.
Keith S. Gordon
aka Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Morning Keith,
We lost Dick in 2008.
Miss him too.
And: ---- I like both machines! Flew them a lot back in the fifties and sixties.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/6/2010 10:24:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met.
Old Bob,
Sometimes bad news travels slowly. I wasn't aware that Dick Ward had gone West. In the early days (as in 1996) of the Twin Commander Flight Group he and I spoke many times and shared resources that the two brands -- Beech and Aero Commander -- had in common. At one time we discussed a joint fly-in event so T-Bone and bathtub nacelled Commander owners could show the engine, prop, parts and service providers our fleet numbers.We had a most friendly rivalry and I'm sorry to learn I won't be jousting with him any longer over why the Aero Commander was soooooo much better than the T-Bone.Best to you -- and thank you for dropping in with your wit and wisdom every now and then.Keith S. Gordonaka Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 6:11 am
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
Good Morning Barry,
While I am confident that the story about Ike using a T-Bone to fly around Korea is accurate and that he used one to fly to Camp David is accurate, I doubt very much if any individual airplane was assigned to the operation. Chances are it was a routine Army airplane. As I said before, I heard the story from Army pilots, not Air Force personnel. The Army had a whole passel of T-Bones! <G>
When Mamie skinned her shin, the decision was made to get the Aero Commander to eliminate the climb up those original "steps on a stick". Beech even redesigned the access to the D50 because of it, but the damage was done.
It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met.
I am fairly familiar with Twin Beech history and I am confident that there was never a Twin Beech specifically assigned to Ike. I would imagine that he did fly in one every now and then. It was hard to be in the Army during WWII without getting in a DC-3 or a Twin Beech on occasion. He also flew in various liaison aircraft whenever it was appropriate to do so.
I also doubt that Paul Tibbets would have done any flying with Ike. Rusty Draper was his pilot during WWII and he chose him to fly the Columbine as well. If anyone would have done any flying for Ike after he left the presidency, it would have been Rusty.
The only airplanes he was assigned with which I am familiar were the Connie he used as General Of The Armies and the Columbine he used as President.
I have tried to locate the serial number of the Bonanza he used to commute between his home at Gettysburg and Teterboro when he was President of Columbia University, but have never found any proof of his ownership. It is quite possible that the Bonanza was a leased aircraft and he only used it for a very short time.
We have a small amount of D50 material at the Beechcraft Heritage Museum and I will try to see what might be there next time I get to Tullahoma.
I have discussed the Eisenhower use of a T-Bone in Korea and the initial use of a T-Bone for use to get to Camp David with several Beechcraft old timers when I attended schools or sales events at the factory.
However, I know of no written documentation of the Mamie incident.
I am absolutely confident it occurred and that Ike did use a T-Bone for at least the first flying trip to Camp David.
By the way. Are you familiar with the use Colonel Robert R McCormick made of an Aero Commander to commute from Wheaton, Illinois, to Chicago's Meigs Field to work every day?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/6/2010 7:05:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk (barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk) writes:
| Quote: | Hi again Bob,
Well, I’m certainly no expert on military aviation and therefore have no reference material here that would be of any help.
However, within Air-Britain (Historians) we have Specialists in many aspects of aviation and there is an online Forum called “AB-IX” (Air-Britain Information Exchange).
People can ask questions they are unable to resolve themselves and the vast majority of them get answered by other people who have the required knowledge or expertise.
I therefore posed a question yesterday as to whether President Eisenhower had a Beech D-50 (L-23) at his disposal.
One guy replied that the only two items on Presidential aircraft that he has available (American Aviation Historical Society, Issue 2 1963 and Flying magazine, August 1990), make no mention of a Beech being used by the President.
Another guy, our Specialist on the Beech 18, doesn’t remember seeing any reference to Eisenhower using a Twin Bonanza in Beech histories, literature or newsletters.
He did add though that the USAF did actually have at least one example of the L-23. Designated as an XL-23C, 55-3465 c/n CH-123 "Long Tom", had extended floating wing panels for an experimental project. Mfg 1955, project ended 19Dec56.
This is from Dick Ward's book "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza" 1998.
As an aside, another guy says “I visited Weston Executive Airport, just outside Dublin, in June of 2008. On being accompanied around the hangars my colleagues and I were shown a Beech C-45H, G-BSZC , c/n AF258, Built 1952, formerly N9541Z and 51-11701A. She was named Southern Comfort and carried USAF under the port wing. We were told that this aircraft had been used at some time by President Eisenhower, and whilst I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story, we accepted the comment at face value at the time.”
To this, our Beech 18 Specialist replied “I first came across this claim online and it accompanied a photo for sale of G-BSZC. They claimed that it belonged "to ex-president Eisenhower and flown by Paul Tibbet [sic Tibbets] of Enola Gay WWII." I'm not sure if the claim is that Eisenhower flew in it while it was in service with SAC in the USAF and he was President (1953-1961) or that he owned it as a civilian (he retired to a farm in Gettysburg, PA & died in Mar69). According to FAA files he didn't own it. Perhaps the USAF log book shows he flew in it, that would be great if that could be confirmed.”
So, Ike could have flown in a Beech D-50 (L-23), but I feel sure that one was not set aside for his permanent use.
The Commanders were, of course, and were ordered for this specific purpose.
My feeling is that Army aircraft simply wouldn’t have been used and the Commanders were operated by a unit within the USAF (1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron. A sister unit, the 1299th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron flew the President’s aides, Secret Service personnel and foreign dignitaries.
However, if your sources are adamant that an L-23 was used, we in Air-Britain would like to know more.
Does anybody have a copy of the book mentioned earlier (By Dick Ward, "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza", from 1998.)
Surely, if Eisenhower had flown in an L-23, the book would highlight that fact?
Best Regards,
Barry
|
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yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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I too Miss Dick. We often exchanged newsletter articles and he was a genuine Gentleman. Now, I have been reading with great interest so post regarding Ike and if he flew a T bone. Since none of us were there it is safe to say that I doubt minds will be changed. However, I have in my possession a great little book titled "The Flying White house" by Col.Ralph Albertazzie, an Air Force One pilot. The book chronicles the history of A.F.O. It is a great book, well written and factual. The author has no allegiance to any airplane (except maybe the Boeing 707).
There are a few pages devoted to the history of the Aero Commander, and....... the T bone! I wish I could type faster, I would love to share all that is written on the subject, but will need to share only paraphrased excerpts. So, here we go. "Not generally know is that Eke had several other presidential aircraft- each of them them a speedy twin propeller L-26 Aero Commander" "The light, little planes were already popular with military brass for short distance flights" When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trip to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found" "The secret service was worried about the safety of small aircraft for presidential use, they would not let the president fly in any airplane with less than four engines" "But Ike was insistant and, there had to be a faster way" "I know ther are small aircraft that can do the trick" Ike told James Rowley "I know you have reservations, so find a model that suits us both" "After months of test flying, and study, the secret service and the FAA selected the AERO COMMANDER as the most suitable aircraft" "On Mat 23 1955 an order was placed but to ease Ikes impatience, a demonstrator, N2724B was leased to the Whiter House" "And so on June 3 1955, a president cf the United States flew for the first time in light aircraft" "With two pilots and Rowley accompaning Ike, they made the seventy two mike trip in twenty three minutes" "The AERO COMMANDER landed on the sod runway at Gettysburg followed closely by another AERO COMMANDER with three more secret service agents, plus several Beechcraft L-23, Twin Bonnanzas with a delegation of reporters to record the historic airlift" So, you see, the government did in fact believe that Twin Bonanazas were safe enough for THE PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After his heart attack in July of 1956, a bed was installed in Ikes AERO COMMANDER so he could still travel to the farm, a feat impossible in a Bone. There is much more information about the AERO COMMANDER and there presidential use including the fact that even today's 747 are painted in a very simallr paint scheme. There is mention of him flying a Stearman, but NO mention of him EVER flying re even being allowed to ride in a Twin Bonanza While he was clearly around both types, the Commander was his airplane of choice. sorry BTW, I think Bones are great airplanes too!!!! 
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barry.collman(at)air-brit
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Hi JimBob,
Super sleuth!
Looks like I’ll have to get hold of a copy of that book.
Grateful thanks for your help.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: 07 December 2010 04:27
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
I too Miss Dick. We often exchanged newsletter articles and he was a genuine Gentleman. Now, I have been reading with great interest so post regarding Ike and if he flew a T bone. Since none of us were there it is safe to say that I doubt minds will be changed. However, I have in my possession a great little book titled "The Flying White house" by Col.Ralph Albertazzie, an Air Force One pilot. The book chronicles the history of A.F.O. It is a great book, well written and factual. The author has no allegiance to any airplane (except maybe the Boeing 707).
There are a few pages devoted to the history of the Aero Commander, and........ the T bone! I wish I could type faster, I would love to share all that is written on the subject, but will need to share only paraphrased excerpts. So, here we go. "Not generally know is that Eke had several other presidential aircraft- each of them them a speedy twin propeller L-26 Aero Commander" "The light, little planes were already popular with military brass for short distance flights" When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trip to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found" "The secret service was worried about the safety of small aircraft for presidential use, they would not let the president fly in any airplane with less than four engines" "But Ike was insistant and, there had to be a faster way" "I know ther are small aircraft that can do the trick" Ike told James Rowley "I know you have reservations, so find a model that suits us both" "After months of test flying, and study, the secret service and the FAA selected the AERO COMMANDER as the most suitable aircraft" "On Mat 23 1955 an order was placed but to ease Ikes impatience, a demonstrator, N2724B was leased to the Whiter House" "And so on June 3 1955, a president cf the United States flew for the first time in light aircraft" "With two pilots and Rowley accompaning Ike, they made the seventy two mike trip in twenty three minutes" "The AERO COMMANDER landed on the sod runway at Gettysburg followed closely by another AERO COMMANDER with three more secret service agents, plus several Beechcraft L-23, Twin Bonnanzas with a delegation of reporters to record the historic airlift" So, you see, the government did in fact believe that Twin Bonanazas were safe enough for THE PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After his heart attack in July of 1956, a bed was installed in Ikes AERO COMMANDER so he could still travel to the farm, a feat impossible in a Bone. There is much more information about the AERO COMMANDER and there presidential use including the fact that even today's 747 are painted in a very simallr paint scheme. There is mention of him flying a Stearman, but NO mention of him EVER flying re even being allowed to ride in a Twin Bonanza While he was clearly around both types, the Commander was his airplane of choice. sorry BTW, I think Bones are great airplanes too!!!!
--
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sr14572(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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I normally don't chime in, but I met Dick Ward in 2007 (i think, or somewhere around then) and considered buying one of his two T-bones when he was downsizing. I even have a book that he autographed and gave to me.....he was an interesting guy....what a salesman (good). During our conversation(s) I told him that I had a 500B and loved it, and asked him if the T-bone would compare......with a smile on my face. He laughed and said that the glass ceiling would break if I bought his T-bone. I did a lot of soul searching and decided to not buy any T-bone. I was spoiled.
From: "yourtcfg(at)aol.com" <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 11:26:56 PM
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
I too Miss Dick. We often exchanged newsletter articles and he was a genuine Gentleman. Now, I have been reading with great interest so post regarding Ike and if he flew a T bone. Since none of us were there it is safe to say that I doubt minds will be changed. However, I have in my possession a great little book titled "The Flying White house" by Col.Ralph Albertazzie, an Air Force One pilot. The book chronicles the history of A.F.O. It is a great book, well written and factual. The author has no allegiance to any airplane (except maybe the Boeing 707).
There are a few pages devoted to the history of the Aero Commander, and........ the T bone! I wish I could type faster, I would love to share all that is written on the subject, but will need to share only paraphrased excerpts. So, here we go. "Not generally know is that Eke had several other presidential aircraft- each of them them a speedy twin propeller L-26 Aero Commander" "The light, little planes were already popular with military brass for short distance flights" When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trip to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found" "The secret service was worried about the safety of small aircraft for presidential use, they would not let the president fly in any airplane with less than four engines" "But Ike was insistant and, there had to be a faster way" "I know ther are small aircraft that can do the trick" Ike told James Rowley "I know you have reservations, so find a model that suits us both" "After months of test flying, and study, the secret service and the FAA selected the AERO COMMANDER as the most suitable aircraft" "On Mat 23 1955 an order was placed but to ease Ikes impatience, a demonstrator, N2724B was leased to the Whiter House" "And so on June 3 1955, a president cf the United States flew for the first time in light aircraft" "With two pilots and Rowley accompaning Ike, they made the seventy two mike trip in twenty three minutes" "The AERO COMMANDER landed on the sod runway at Gettysburg followed closely by another AERO COMMANDER with three more secret service agents, plus several Beechcraft L-23, Twin Bonnanzas with a delegation of reporters to record the historic airlift" So, you see, the government did in fact believe that Twin Bonanazas were safe enough for THE PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After his heart attack in July of 1956, a bed was installed in Ikes AERO COMMANDER so he could still travel to the farm, a feat impossible in a Bone. There is much more information about the AERO COMMANDER and there presidential use including the fact that even today's 747 are painted in a very simallr paint scheme. There is mention of him flying a Stearman, but NO mention of him EVER flying re even being allowed to ride in a Twin Bonanza While he was clearly around both types, the Commander was his airplane of choice. sorry BTW, I think Bones are great airplanes too!!!!
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: Commander photo / video |
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Good Morning Jim,
I think we can agree that no minds will be changed.<g>
Col. Ralph Albertazzie is strictly a Johnnie come lately. Rusty Draper was Ike's pilot both during WWII and while he was President of the USA. I would be a LOT more interested in what he might have to say.
However, all of the data you have presented concerns what happened AFTER Mamie slipped and skinned her shin. I have seen nothing about Ike making his inspection tour of Korea prior to inauguration and no mention of his rather extensive flying background..
Not unusual, though, since most of it was way outside the regulations! <G>
What do you think the chances are of any flying Ike did that was outside of the Army's rules ever being documented?
As I said before: If you were a General AND an avid aviator, don't you think you might tend to grab a bit of stick time?
The data also makes the quote: "When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trips to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found"
This does NOT jibe with known history. If the quote was not accurate, how can we be sure the rest is accurate?
Ike had acquired his farm long before he became president of the USA. In fact. he had the sod runway installed for use of his Bonanza when he was president of Columbia University. The Bonanza made the commute to Teterboro very nicely.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/6/2010 10:35:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, yourtcfg(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | I too Miss Dick. We often exchanged newsletter articles and he was a genuine Gentleman. Now, I have been reading with great interest so post regarding Ike and if he flew a T bone. Since none of us were there it is safe to say that I doubt minds will be changed. However, I have in my possession a great little book titled "The Flying White house" by Col. Ralph Albertazzie, an Air Force One pilot. The book chronicles the history of A.F.O. It is a great book, well written and factual. The author has no allegiance to any airplane (except maybe the Boeing 707).
There are a few pages devoted to the history of the Aero Commander, and........ the T bone! I wish I could type faster, I would love to share all that is written on the subject, but will need to share only paraphrased excerpts. So, here we go. "Not generally know is that Eke had several other presidential aircraft- each of them them a speedy twin propeller L-26 Aero Commander" "The light, little planes were already popular with military brass for short distance flights" When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trip to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found" "The secret service was worried about the safety of small aircraft for presidential use, they would not let the president fly in any airplane with less than four engines" "But Ike was insistant and, there had to be a faster way" "I know ther are small aircraft that can do the trick" Ike told James Rowley "I know you have reservations, so find a model that suits us both" "After months of test flying, and study, the secret service and the FAA selected the AERO COMMANDER as the most suitable aircraft" "On Mat 23 1955 an order was placed but to ease Ikes impatience, a demonstrator, N2724B was leased to the Whiter House" "And so on June 3 1955, a president cf the United States flew for the first time in light aircraft" "With two pilots and Rowley accompaning Ike, they made the seventy two mike trip in twenty three minutes" "The AERO COMMANDER landed on the sod runway at Gettysburg followed closely by another AERO COMMANDER with three more secret service agents, plus several Beechcraft L-23, Twin Bonnanzas with a delegation of reporters to record the historic airlift" So, you see, the government did in fact believe that Twin Bonanazas were safe enough for THE PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After his heart attack in July of 1956, a bed was installed in Ikes AERO COMMANDER so he could still travel to the farm, a feat impossible in a Bone. There is much more information about the AERO COMMANDER and there presidential use including the fact that even today's 747 are painted in a very simallr paint scheme. There is mention of him flying a Stearman, but NO mention of him EVER flying re even being allowed to ride in a Twin Bonanza While he was clearly around both types, the Commander was his airplane of choice. sorry BTW, I think Bones are great airplanes too!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 9:52 am
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
Good Morning Keith,
We lost Dick in 2008.
Miss him too.
And: ---- I like both machines! Flew them a lot back in the fifties and sixties.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/6/2010 10:24:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, cloudcraft(at)aol.com (cloudcraft(at)aol.com) writes:
| Quote: | It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met.
Old Bob,
Sometimes bad news travels slowly. I wasn't aware that Dick Ward had gone West. In the early days (as in 1996) of the Twin Commander Flight Group he and I spoke many times and shared resources that the two brands -- Beech and Aero Commander -- had in common. At one time we discussed a joint fly-in event so T-Bone and bathtub nacelled Commander owners could show the engine, prop, parts and service providers our fleet numbers.We had a most friendly rivalry and I'm sorry to learn I won't be jousting with him any longer over why the Aero Commander was soooooo much better than the T-Bone.Best to you -- and thank you for dropping in with your wit and wisdom every now and then.Keith S. Gordonaka Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 6:11 am
Subject: Re: Commander photo / video
Good Morning Barry,
While I am confident that the story about Ike using a T-Bone to fly around Korea is accurate and that he used one to fly to Camp David is accurate, I doubt very much if any individual airplane was assigned to the operation. Chances are it was a routine Army airplane. As I said before, I heard the story from Army pilots, not Air Force personnel. The Army had a whole passel of T-Bones! <G>
When Mamie skinned her shin, the decision was made to get the Aero Commander to eliminate the climb up those original "steps on a stick". Beech even redesigned the access to the D50 because of it, but the damage was done.
It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met.
I am fairly familiar with Twin Beech history and I am confident that there was never a Twin Beech specifically assigned to Ike. I would imagine that he did fly in one every now and then. It was hard to be in the Army during WWII without getting in a DC-3 or a Twin Beech on occasion. He also flew in various liaison aircraft whenever it was appropriate to do so.
I also doubt that Paul Tibbets would have done any flying with Ike. Rusty Draper was his pilot during WWII and he chose him to fly the Columbine as well. If anyone would have done any flying for Ike after he left the presidency, it would have been Rusty.
The only airplanes he was assigned with which I am familiar were the Connie he used as General Of The Armies and the Columbine he used as President.
I have tried to locate the serial number of the Bonanza he used to commute between his home at Gettysburg and Teterboro when he was President of Columbia University, but have never found any proof of his ownership. It is quite possible that the Bonanza was a leased aircraft and he only used it for a very short time.
We have a small amount of D50 material at the Beechcraft Heritage Museum and I will try to see what might be there next time I get to Tullahoma.
I have discussed the Eisenhower use of a T-Bone in Korea and the initial use of a T-Bone for use to get to Camp David with several Beechcraft old timers when I attended schools or sales events at the factory.
However, I know of no written documentation of the Mamie incident.
I am absolutely confident it occurred and that Ike did use a T-Bone for at least the first flying trip to Camp David.
By the way. Are you familiar with the use Colonel Robert R McCormick made of an Aero Commander to commute from Wheaton, Illinois, to Chicago's Meigs Field to work every day?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
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