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Water temp sensor ground

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paul.r.kuntz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation.  It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo.  The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded.  I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source.  I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available.  Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp.  Any recommendations?

 

Thanks,

Paul Kuntz

http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com

  [quote][b]

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1928
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Water temp sensor ground

How about using a ring terminal?  What inside diameter is required?

Maybe you could find one at an auto parts store.  The electronic supply houses usually sell them in boxes of 10 or more.   	  Code: 	
		  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=320758-ND 	


Ask around, someone might have one of the size needed.

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

n8zg(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:07 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Paul – 

If the brass fitting had NPT threads, trying to clamp a tabbed washer between the fitting and the manifold is probably not a good idea.  Clamping force is required to maintain electrical contact/continuity with the washer, fitting & sensor.  NPT threads depend on taper & interference fit to seal.  Finding the perfect thickness of washer to fill the gap between the manifold boss and the adapter shoulder while maintaining the correct fit of the NPT threads without over- or under-torquing might be challenging.

 

If it were my airplane, I think I’d drill thru one of the corners of the brass fitting (emulating a safety wire hole) and solder a wire in the hole for the ground.  Example photos: 

 

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10147/index.html 

http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nuts_corner_drilled.pdf 

 

neal

===========

This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation.  It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo.  The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded.  I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source.  I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available.  Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp.  Any recommendations?



Thanks,

Paul Kuntz

http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com

  [quote][b]

paul.r.kuntz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:37 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Neal,



That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight

threads, not tapered pipe threads.  One problem I see with the soldered

ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint.



Thanks,

Paul



On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Neal George <n8zg(at)att.net> wrote:



[quote] Paul –



 If the brass fitting had NPT threads, trying to clamp a tabbed washer

 between the fitting and the manifold is probably not a good idea.  Clamping

 force is required to maintain electrical contact/continuity with the washer,

 fitting & sensor.  NPT threads depend on taper & interference fit to seal

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Dont know what brand you are installing, but most gauges come with optional two senders. One like yours and on with the required ground tab. Check the source for that option. Lots more samitary than a workaround with onbly one tab.

 PaulW

 ======

 At 08:56 PM 12/7/2010, you wrote:

 [quote]  This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation.  It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo.  The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded.  I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source.  I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available.  Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp.  Any recommendations?



 Thanks,

 Paul Kuntz

  http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com



 [b]

jon(at)finleyweb.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Hi Paul,

  

 The best option is to replace the sensor with one that has a ground connector (obviously).  However; I have run into this same situation a number of times and have never come up with a really good solution (so am listening closely to the responses).  The best I have come up is a hose clamp around the sensor with a ground wire underneith it (as you mentioned). The only trick to this seems to be adequately securing the wire against vibration or else it will break (at the hose clamp) over time. Of course (just to spite me I think), the most recent sensor I added was a large hexagon shape which made the hose clamp solution really crude.

  

 Jon Finley

 N314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22

 http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx

 



--

n8zg(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

The soldered joint presents a manageable risk.  

Two easy options:

1-   After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape.

2 – Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor before soldering.  After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering.

 

There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the leads, depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and ground, or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair – for convenience, not noise rejection).

 

neal

==================

Neal,



That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads.  One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint.



Thanks,

Paul

  [quote][b]

bbradburry(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

The best solution is the ground tab as suggested below.  Barring that, check for good continuity between the sensor body and the pipe it is screwed into.  If it is making good contact, place a hose clamp around the pipe and attach a ground wire to the clamp.  

   

Bill B  

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Finley

 Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:56 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground  

  

     

Hi Paul,  

    

   

    

The best option is to replace the sensor with one that has a ground connector (obviously).  However; I have run into this same situation a number of times and have never come up with a really good solution (so am listening closely to the responses).  The best I have come up is a hose clamp around the sensor with a ground wire underneith it (as you mentioned). The only trick to this seems to be adequately securing the wire against vibration or else it will break (at the hose clamp) over time. Of course (just to spite me I think), the most recent sensor I added was a large hexagon shape which made the hose clamp solution really crude.  

    

   

    

Jon Finley  

    

N314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22  

    

http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx  

    



 

 --

paul.r.kuntz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Good input, Neal.  Thanks.

  

 Paul

 On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Neal George <n8zg(at)att.net (n8zg(at)att.net)> wrote:

 [quote]   

The soldered joint presents a manageable risk.   

Two easy options: 

1-   After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape. 

2 – Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor before soldering.  After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering.  

  

There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the leads, depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and ground, or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair – for convenience, not noise rejection).  

  

neal 

==================  

Neal,



That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads.  One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint.

 

Thanks,

Paul



 	  Quote: 	
		  



"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

.com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

	


[b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Sure they’re called ring connectors.  You will find they are usually copper plated with some metal silver colourted

 

Noel

 

 

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson

Sent: December 8, 2010 11:26 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Water temp sensor ground

 

Dont know what brand you are installing, but most gauges come with optional two senders. One like yours and on with the required ground tab. Check the source for that option. Lots more samitary than a workaround with onbly one tab.

PaulW

======

At 08:56 PM 12/7/2010, you wrote:

This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation.  It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo.  The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded.  I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source.  I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available.  Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp.  Any recommendations?



Thanks,

Paul Kuntz

http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com 	  Quote: 	
		     	
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  [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

At 02:28 PM 12/8/2010, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   The best solution is the ground tab as suggested below.  Barring that, check for good continuity between the sensor body and the pipe it is screwed into.  If it is making good contact, place a hose clamp around the pipe and attach a ground wire to the clamp. 	


    Is there enough "meat" in the brass hex section

    to drill and tap a 4-40 hole? If so, consider

    a tapped hole and PIDG terminal to attach ground

    wire.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

You may also use a clamp to attach a ground braid to the pipe itself and then attach the other end of the braid to a suitable ground.Â  If you want a little cleaner job silver solder either a tang or a nut to the pipe and use that to attach the braid.

 

Noel

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Finley

Sent: December 8, 2010 11:26 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Water temp sensor ground



 

Hi Paul,



 



The best option is to replace the sensor with one that has a ground connector (obviously).  However; I have run into this same situation a number of times and have never come up with a really good solution (so am listening closely to the responses).  The best I have come up is a hose clamp around the sensor with a ground wire underneith it (as you mentioned). The only trick to this seems to be adequately securing the wire against vibration or else it will break (at the hose clamp) over time. Of course (just to spite me I think), the most recent sensor I added was a large hexagon shape which made the hose clamp solution really crude.



 



Jon Finley



N314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22



http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:06 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Soldering is not a good idea especially in areas of high vibration like the engine.  Solder wicks up into wire and cause a point where all the vibration bending is concentrated on one small point.  This can cause the wire to break at that point.  Better to use a crimp  fitting or just attach the ground to the pipe with a clamp.

 

Noel

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kuntz

Sent: December 8, 2010 5:11 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Water temp sensor ground



 

Good input, Neal.  Thanks.



 



Paul



On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Neal George <n8zg(at)att.net (n8zg(at)att.net)> wrote:

The soldered joint presents a manageable risk.  

Two easy options:

1-   After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape.

2 – Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor before soldering.  After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering.

 

There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the leads, depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and ground, or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair – for convenience, not noise rejection).

 

neal

==================

Neal,



That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads.  One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint.



Thanks,

Paul



 	  Quote: 	
		    "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com 	
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		   .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributionist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listttp://forums.matronics.com 	




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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

n8zg(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:25 am Post subject: Water temp sensor ground

Very true, Noel – 

 

Thus the admonition to immobilize the joint and a short length of the associated lead.

 

neal

 

======================

Soldering is not a good idea especially in areas of high vibration like the engine.  Solder wicks up into wire and cause a point where all the vibration bending is concentrated on one small point.  This can cause the wire to break at that point.  Better to use a crimp  fitting or just attach the ground to the pipe with a clamp.

 

Noel

 

===============

Good input, Neal.  Thanks.



 



Paul



On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Neal George <n8zg(at)att.net (n8zg(at)att.net)> wrote:

The soldered joint presents a manageable risk.  

Two easy options:

1-   After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape.

2 – Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor before soldering.  After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering.

There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the leads, depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and ground, or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair – for convenience, not noise rejection).

neal



  [quote][b]

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