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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: Rick Girard's machining work |
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Fellow Kolbers,
Not long ago, we discussed the thrust line issues I have with the Jabiru engine on my Slingshot. Rick Girard, volunteered to machine the beveled shims to adjust my Jabiru engine thrustline to match what Ted Cowan has found to be a very good angle for the Slingshot, i.e., 7/8" higher at the rear than the front. Unlike the Rotax engine mount, which allows thrust line adjustment by simply inserting washers under the ord mount, the Jabiru requires beveled shims because the lord mounts are located elsewhere.
I want to hereby publicly thank Rick for his excellent work and generosity.
I've attached a couple of photos of what my engine mount looks like before the beveled shims, plus a few photos of the Ricks' handy work. I won't get a chance to install them for some time because I'm busy doing repair work on a friend's broken Sonex. Once I get them installed, I'll post a couple photos.
Thanks again, Rick.
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| Shows the shims 9.5" on centers as they will be mounted on Slingshot. |
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| My current engine mounts are very much like these on Chris Ambrose's MkIII. The MkIII mount does not need to be shimmed like it does on the Slingshot. |
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:54 am Post subject: Rick Girard's machining work |
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Thom and all you Jabiru drivers
Looking at the Jabiru mount that was attached I couldn't help but notice the similarity between the Jabiru mount and the VW mount. My first VW mount used a adapter cradle very much like the adapter shown. It makes me wonder if the VW mount that Kolb welds up for the VW engines wouldn't be better for the Jabiru. Rather that play with thrust angle wouldn't it be better to mount the engine lower in a VW mount. There would likely be changes to the adapter plates but you could eliminate the adapter cradle and maybe lower the engine enough to mostly eliminate thrust pitch changes. I also saved about 5 lbs. It might not work but shouldn't someone look at it? Also the VW Mount too wide for anything other than a MKIII C or X.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>
Fellow Kolbers,
Not long ago, we discussed the thrust line issues I have with the Jabiru engine on my Slingshot. Rick Girard, volunteered to machine the beveled shims to adjust my Jabiru engine thrustline to match what Ted Cowan has found to be a very good angle for the Slingshot, i.e., 7/8" higher at the rear than the front. Unlike the Rotax engine mount, which allows thrust line adjustment by simply inserting washers under the ord mount, the Jabiru requires beveled shims because the lord mounts are located elsewhere.
I want to hereby publicly thank Rick for his excellent work and generosity.
I've attached a couple of photos of what my engine mount looks like before the beveled shims, plus a few photos of the Ricks' handy work. I won't get a chance to install them for some time because I'm busy doing repair work on a friend's broken Sonex. Once I get them installed, I'll post a couple photos.
Thanks again, Rick.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322920#322920
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jabshims_4_smaller_994.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jabshims_3_smaller_167.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jabshims_2_smaller_163.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jabshims_1_smaller_124.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/chris_ambroses_engine_mount_858.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jabiru_engine_rt_rear_cropped_180.jpg
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Rick Girard's machining work |
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Rick,
Mounting the Jabiru engine lower would be great but no-can-do because of the deep oil sump. See attached photo of how close the bottom of the sump is to the Kolb mount.
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: Rick Girard's machining work |
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Thom
Yes I know that. The VW engine has a similar sump. That is why I designed the VW mount. Check out my attachment. I don't have the version of the photo down here in Florida with me that has all the dimensions but this will give you a better idea of what I did. Note! Kolb reworked my design a bit but the dimensions are about the same.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>
Rick,
Mounting the Jabiru engine lower would be great but no-can-do because of the deep oil sump. See attached photo of how close the bottom of the sump is to the Kolb mount.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322935#322935
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_ss_mtr_mount_oil_sump_smaller_149.jpg
nnual List Fund Raiser. Click on
/" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
http:/r generous support!
nics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Rick Girard's machining work |
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Rick,
I'm not sure I fully understand your marked up photo. To get the engine lower, does this mount move the engine more aft than the standard location? If it does, that would be problem on the Slignshot which has a really heavy tail as it is. In three point stance with no fuel there is roughly 115 lbs on the tailwheel, which is why mine has a really beefed up leaf spring... the original one broke (before I owned it).
IF the VW mount somehow manages to lower the engine without moving it aft, that would be very good indeed. The only way I see of doing that is to replace the stock Kolb mounting tube, at least the aft end, with something like what your photo shows. Perhaps that is what they did.
My Slingshot originally had a 3 cylinder 2-stroke Hirth (I believe) but it was later changed to the Jabiru by the builder. It would take more structural modification than I am willing to do to lower the engine without moving it aft, but this would definitely be much better if the factory did this mod from the get-go for new Slingshot kits.
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: Rick Girard's machining work |
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The VW mount doesn't move the engine fore of aft, it only moves it down. New Kolb used what worked on my mount. Yes we both cut the Kolb mount tube short on the aft end. Again I'm told that the Kolb VW mount is a bit wide for the Slingshot and Kolbra but maybe it just the engine that is too wide. New Kolb sells the VW mount as a option on new planes and as a weld on for an existing MKIII. Yes this is not for the faint of heart. I have been the test pilot for the last few hundred hours.
Question. The engine lord mounts look similar to the standard Lycoming engine mounting bushings that we use for the VW mount. I have been looking for softer bushings. What does the Jabiru use? Is it fairly soft? I went to their web site but they don't list them, any idea where I might get a set.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>
Rick,
I'm not sure I fully understand your marked up photo. To get the engine lower, does this mount move the engine more aft than the standard location? If it does, that would be problem on the Slignshot which has a really heavy tail as it is. In three point stance with no fuel there is roughly 115 lbs on the tailwheel, which is why mine has a really beefed up leaf spring... the original one broke (before I owned it).
IF the VW mount somehow manages to lower the engine without moving it aft, that would be very good indeed. The only way I see of doing that is to replace the stock Kolb mounting tube, at least the aft end, with something like what your photo shows. Perhaps that is what they did.
My Slingshot originally had a 3 cylinder 2-stroke Hirth (I believe) but it was later changed to the Jabiru by the builder. It would take more structural modification than I am willing to do to lower the engine without moving it aft, but this would definitely be much better if the factory did this mod from the get-go for new Slingshot kits.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322948#322948
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tailwheel_smaller_11=====================
he Contribution link below to find out more about
* The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
s.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Rick Girard's machining work |
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Rick,
I do not know what the part number for my lord mounts are because I did not build the airplane nor install this engine. However, I can tell you that these mounts are not in the least bit soft. There is virtually no visible movement of the engine when the throttle is advanced all the way to static maximum.
So, you should probably ask someone else. Perhaps Aircraft Spruce could help you find the softer ones.
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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