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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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I had a little trouble interpreting the photos so I thought I would ask a question or two.
The rivets you are concerned about are the bottom row in the picture? I guess this is a picture of the new spar cap angle riveted to the main spar and viewed through the wing locker. Is this true? It seems like your concern is the shape of the shop heads. Is this true?
I am very concerned about your comments. So far, I only get the message you are concerned about the solid rivets. Are there other problems you have found?
Your comments make me feel good about my decision to use bolts instead of solid rivets on my upgrade. I would still like any comments you may have about any other areas of concern.
Paul
XL still doing the upgrade - finished wings and just finishing the new rear channel attach brackets (along with reworking the flap torque tube to get rid of some extra holes that Sabrina refers to as Swiss Cheese).
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:22 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com; zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Upgrades or lack there of!
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CB98B1.EA8D1920[/img][img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CB98B1.EA8D1920[/img][img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01CB98B1.EA8D1920[/img][img]cid:image004.jpg(at)01CB98B1.EA8D1920[/img]
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Paul
Every part of the upgrade is installed incorrectly..... I can send you the photo's off everything and you will see my concern. 
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:42:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, psm(at)att.net writes:
| Quote: |
I had a little trouble interpreting the photos so I thought I would ask a question or two.
The rivets you are concerned about are the bottom row in the picture? I guess this is a picture of the new spar cap angle riveted to the main spar and viewed through the wing locker. Is this true? It seems like your concern is the shape of the shop heads. Is this true?
I am very concerned about your comments. So far, I only get the message you are concerned about the solid rivets. Are there other problems you have found?
Your comments make me feel good about my decision to use bolts instead of solid rivets on my upgrade. I would still like any comments you may have about any other areas of concern.
Paul
XL still doing the upgrade - finished wings and just finishing the new rear channel attach brackets (along with reworking the flap torque tube to get rid of some extra holes that Sabrina refers to as Swiss Cheese).
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:22 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com; zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Upgrades or lack there of!
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
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[quote][b]
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Here is a link to all the photos... http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=39343&id=100000256688371&l=3ecaba3433
They are on face book so you will need a face book profile I think. I would post them to Zenith Aero but it takes too long.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:22:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: |
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
|
[quote][b]
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mhubel
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Interesting, This level of workmanship is scary. One would expect that those who don't know how to do something on an airplane would ask for help, that was not done in this case.
I was fortunate enough to have a friendly fellow flier a few hangers away who was also a mechanic. I got some lessons in doing solid rivets before doing mine and then he looked at the finished job. It is hard to believe others would do less.
I also cheated and used a big (6000 lb rating) rivet squeezer to do all the -6 rivets. It make the job very professional looking. The right tools are always a great help.
On 12/11/2010 12:22 AM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote: [quote]
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com (mhubel(at)nemon.com)
978-443-3955[b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com |
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careywf(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Jeff,
Are all the photos on Facebook of the same aircraft? Many of the photos show very poor workmanship to say the least. Most will requires many more hours/money to correct than the time/money/effort to do the upgrade. WOW
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the upgrade.
Jeff
[quote][b]
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psm(at)att.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built (plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P. In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the upgrade.
Jeff
01234567890123456
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Actually, the entire job on an E-AB could legally be done by literally anyone. The only additional requirement is that the condition inspection must be signed off by either the original builder with the repairman certificate for that airplane or by an A&P. An AI is not required. Good luck finding an A&P who would sign off this mess.
On Dec 11, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built (plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P. In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
|
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
do not archive.
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
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_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:27 am Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the upgrade but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the poor work just a few years later.... So the answer to that will never be known and really isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no one is required to inspect this work and if just one tenth of the work is this sloppy (and I think it is based on the aircraft I have seen) I think some plane's are worse off after the upgrade. And if these plane's start falling out of the sky next year the value of the 601 will be less than scrap metal.
As for the rules:
I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can work on any EXP-AB aircraft.
I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All my work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing for each aircraft we upgrade.
We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about the upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get an A&P to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't read blue prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance where we can.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psm(at)att.net writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built (plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P. In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the upgrade.
Jeff
01234567890123456
7 |
[quote][b]
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mhubel
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Jeff,
It would be hard to legally require it, but having an EAA adviser inspect it as an alternative to a A&P would be very desirable. Although they can't "sign it off" they do issue a report. It is not a perfect system but would clearly catch things like you are seeing. It may be too late for this round of updates as the worst offending spots can not be seen during any reasonable annual/condition inspection. I suppose one could put a video camera on a very long handle in through the two inspection holes we do have. Even that does not allow the inspection of significant areas.
I take it that you are opening things up again for some reason after they had been closed and this is how you see all this.
On 12/12/2010 10:24 AM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote: | Quote: | Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the upgrade but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the poor work just a few years later.... So the answer to that will never be known and really isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no one is required to inspect this work and if just one tenth of the work is this sloppy (and I think it is based on the aircraft I have seen) I think some plane's are worse off after the upgrade. And if these plane's start falling out of the sky next year the value of the 601 will be less than scrap metal.
As for the rules:
I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can work on any EXP-AB aircraft.
I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All my work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing for each aircraft we upgrade.
We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about the upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get an A&P to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't read blue prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance where we can.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psm(at)att.net (psm(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built (plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P. In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the upgrade.
Jeff
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
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9 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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|
_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com |
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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This one had wing lockers but most of the upgrade can be seen thru the inspection panels. I will be removing the LE to repair the new spar angle rivets though.
In a message dated 12/12/2010 11:08:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mhubel(at)nemon.com writes:
[quote]Jeff,
It would be hard to legally require it, but having an EAA adviser inspect it as an alternative to a A&P would be very desirable. Although they can't "sign it off" they do issue a report. It is not a perfect system but would clearly catch things like you are seeing. It may be too late for this round of updates as the worst offending spots can not be seen during any reasonable annual/condition inspection. I suppose one could put a video camera on a very long handle in through the two inspection holes we do have. Even that does not allow the inspection of significant areas.
I take it that you are opening things up again for some reason after they had been closed and this is how you see all this.
On 12/12/2010 10:24 AM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote: | Quote: | Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the upgrade but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the poor work just a few years later.... So the answer to that will never be known and really isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no one is required to inspect this work and if just one tenth of the work is this sloppy (and I think it is based on the aircraft I have seen) I think some plane's are worse off after the upgrade. And if these plane's start falling out of the sky next year the value of the 601 will be less than scrap metal.
As for the rules:
I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can work on any EXP-AB aircraft.
I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All my work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing for each aircraft we upgrade.
We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about the upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get an A&P to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't read blue prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance where we can.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psm(at)att.net (psm(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built (plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P. In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the upgrade.
Jeff
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:43 am Post subject: Upgrades or lack there of! |
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Jeff,
I hope you are considering replacing the extruded spar cap angle as well as the rivets. I remember seeing some significant damage to the area around the poorly set rivets. I think the cost of material would be minimal and the results from trying to smooth out the damage might be questionable. In either case you will need to do a lot of work to make the holes line up properly to install new hard rivets.
I'm guessing you will see similar damage on the other end of the rivets. The same logic can apply there too. Aluminum bar and angle is not very expensive and easy to obtain.
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 8:12 AM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
This one had wing lockers but most of the upgrade can be seen thru the inspection panels. I will be removing the LE to repair the new spar angle rivets though.
In a message dated 12/12/2010 11:08:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mhubel(at)nemon.com writes:
| Quote: |
Jeff,
It would be hard to legally require it, but having an EAA adviser inspect it as an alternative to a A&P would be very desirable. Although they can't "sign it off" they do issue a report. It is not a perfect system but would clearly catch things like you are seeing. It may be too late for this round of updates as the worst offending spots can not be seen during any reasonable annual/condition inspection. I suppose one could put a video camera on a very long handle in through the two inspection holes we do have. Even that does not allow the inspection of significant areas.
I take it that you are opening things up again for some reason after they had been closed and this is how you see all this.
On 12/12/2010 10:24 AM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote:
Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the upgrade but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the poor work just a few years later.... So the answer to that will never be known and really isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no one is required to inspect this work and if just one tenth of the work is this sloppy (and I think it is based on the aircraft I have seen) I think some plane's are worse off after the upgrade. And if these plane's start falling out of the sky next year the value of the 601 will be less than scrap metal.
As for the rules:
I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can work on any EXP-AB aircraft.
I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All my work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing for each aircraft we upgrade.
We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about the upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get an A&P to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't read blue prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance where we can.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psm(at)att.net (psm(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built (plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P. In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the upgrade.
Jeff
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