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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:25 am Post subject: Class B/ Speed |
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Good Morning All,
It has been over twenty-one years since I last flew a "dash thirty" DC-10, but our company policy at that time was to advise ATC any time we found it necessary to exceed the 250 knot restriction. Most of the time, we would just leave some flaps hanging out until we got above ten thousand feet. The only response I ever got when I did mention the problem was "Thanks United".
Have times changed or was that just my company's way of doing things?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/14/2010 8:17:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Don,
I am not sure if you agree with me or not. FAA 91.117b last sentence reads
"This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operation within class B airspace
area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section" Referring
to P.(a) it limits speed to 250K below 10K.
As to the exemption to exceed 250 for aircraft requirements, I do not know where
to find it, I just know it is done all the time. On a couple occasions I have
been ask to say speed and nothing was said if the reply to ATC was 300K.
dan f
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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: Class B/ Speed |
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You'll probably note from my tag line that I'm neck deep in Class B ops and redesign for Las Vegas. 91.117 allows 250 knots from the SURFACE of the Class B airport and through Class B airspace. Example: You're departing Atlanta. You can accelerate to 250 knots right away -- and ATC expects this.
Houston had an experimental program (via Special FAR) for a number of years that allowed 300 knots in Class B. That program is finished.
If your aircraft (DC-10) has a design requirement for a higher speed within Class B that's understood by ATC.
If you exceed 250 knots in Class B in a type that does not need to go faster and ATC asks your speed they are not going to violate you. 99% of all of the ATC guys I work with have the mantra, "We're not traffic cops."
That statement is not made by FSDO inspectors.
In the world of RNAV SIDs and STARs procedure development, "containment" and turn anticipation is based on an indicated 250 knots in Class B, converted to TAS for the altitude the aircraft is at over the fix, plus a constant tailwind factor, usually 60 knots.
Blow out of containment because you're flying too fast and it could result in a QA -- Quality Assurance -- report by ATC and those find their way to FSDO for review.
Keith S. Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
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dongirod
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: Class B/ Speed |
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Dan
I agree with you, it is my understanding, that to exceed the 250
limitations, it's as simple as a radio call. Lots of references when I
Googled "Class B airspeed restrictions"
As I think back on the statement I made about flying between MIA and Nassau
MANY years ago, I think what happened was the speeding up above 250 when 6
miles offshore but below 10K, but you were still in the TCA so therefore
could not. Been a long time, but I think that is what happened.
Don
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