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Alternate Air intake
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philperry9(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

I'm just curious how many people have alternate air intake doors on their airplanes and if anyone has seen a need for one? 

Thanks,

 Phil  [quote][b]

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

which alternate air? engine yes; have not used.  alternate air for pitot static system yes and never used. I use the engine air  intake as a door opening on the underside of the airbox which bypasses the  filter. Since I have no round gauges I use a Curtiss valve in the panel to open  the static line in case of airframe icing of the static ports. hope it never  happens.

 [quote]   ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

If you mean on the FAB, yes...it's something you definitely

want to have.  You don't need to build the carb heat

valve if you are using an IO-540 though...just the

alternate air. It's an emergency only thing, so you

won't need it until you really NEED it.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



On 12/29/2010 10:53 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm just curious how many people have alternate air intake doors on

 their airplanes and if anyone has seen a need for one?



 Thanks,

 Phil

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:54 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

insurance! yes I have it installed for the  engine.

 no, I hope I never need it, but if the inlet gets  plugged I'll be darn glad to have it.

 if you mean the alt air for static, inside the cabin, no  I have other redundancies to make up for that failure.

  

 On this topic, what have others done to cover the alt  air knob so it does not get confused for a brake, or heat.. Mine sits in the  Vans stock position (left of throttle) and I fear I may pull it one night by  mistake.

 Pascal

  



  From: Phillip Perry (philperry9(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 8:53 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Alternate Air intake

 



 

I'm just curious how many people have alternate air intake doors on their  airplanes and if anyone has seen a need for one? 

Thanks,

Phil[quote]



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

I have it installed. While installing it, I recalled a story from a     friend of mine.

     

     As a much younger and bolder pilot, he ended up flying his C182 in     near white-out snowy conditions. He said all of the snow he had     injested had blocked up his air filter giving him issues. I don't     recall all the details, but he was lucky to get it down at an     airport that miraculously appeared in front of him, to the amazement     of the FBO workers.

     

     Jae

     40533

     

     On 12/29/2010 8:53 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:     [quote]       

I'm just curious how many people have alternate air intake         doors on their airplanes and if anyone has seen a need for one?       

Thanks,

         Phil        	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     [b]

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

philperry9(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter scenario. 

Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods, etc?  I'm trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc. 

Thanks for the help,

 Phil  [quote][b]

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

The letters STOP on the knob; my buddy did pull it  once; and yes it is possible to close it manually by an alumimium tube several  feet long underneath the aircraft. cowling was not removed.

 [quote]   ---

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

When you get the FAB it has the directions. It is  basically a hole under the center of the airbox/air filter with a  guillotine type door, it goes back through the firewall and, in my case, sits  next to the throttle. That is all completely stock.

 When you ask for a cowling mod.. are you getting a non  stock cowling? engine? etc? otherwise you're thinking this too hard, it is all  pretty simple stuff.

 Pascal

  



  From: Phillip Perry (philperry9(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:57 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Alternate Air intake

 



 

Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it  installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter scenario. 

Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods, etc?   I'm trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc. 

Thanks for the help,

Phil[quote]



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

From: Phillip Perry (philperry9(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:57 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Alternate Air intake

Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it  installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter scenario. 

Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods, etc?   I'm trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc. 

Thanks for the help,

Phil[quote]

href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

There's nothing really to it.  It's a guillotine type valve

on the bottom of the airbox.  You pull the cable and the

blade swings open and opens a hole directly into your

intake....inside the filter.



There was a maintenance issue with this, BTW....rivets in

fibergalss...no aluminum backing...not good.  I fixed

mine recently:

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20090503/index.html



Here's the bottom of the box:

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/engine/20051127/RV200511220080.html



So there really isn't any plumbing required.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD





On 12/30/2010 10:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it

 installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter scenario.



 Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods, etc?  I'm

 trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc.



 Thanks for the help,

 Phil



 *

pilotdds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

I have used the alternate air in a mooney when the air filter presumably iced up-wings were ice protected-mp gradually dropped to 14 inches with a tubocharged engine-activating the alternate air returned power to near normal-safety dictates having the option to bypass the airfilter.Another thing to watch for are the rivets in the vans airbox pulling through the glass-this happened to one of mine-I replaced them with small screws and washers+ a little extra glass,I was an early version that had a trapdoor desined to automatically open like a c-206 or 210.Vans issued a S.B. to go to a manual system.It was the manual system that developed loose rivets in the glass.-Happy new year and lets go for 0 accidents in 2011-jim

 

   

 

 

   --

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

I agree with Dave.   



My knob is painted white (all others black) with red letters on it saying ALT AIR. 



I can push mine close from underneath as well with long screwdriver or something similar.



grumpy

do not archive



On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:27 AM, DLM wrote:

[quote]The letters STOP on the knob; my buddy did pull it once; and yes it is possible to close it manually by an alumimium tube several feet long underneath the aircraft. cowling was not removed.

[quote]---

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:52 am Post subject: Alternate Air intake

Like Tim, I did not like just the stock kit.

So I modified mine by adding a large aluminum plate on the bottom of  

the fiberglass housing.  That gave a solid base for the door.

Then I added 2 long bolts (fwd and aft bolts on bottom picture) that  

go from the bottom plate to the top plate for added security.

grumpy

On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 There's nothing really to it.  It's a guillotine type valve

 on the bottom of the airbox.  You pull the cable and the

 blade swings open and opens a hole directly into your

 intake....inside the filter.

 There was a maintenance issue with this, BTW....rivets in

 fibergalss...no aluminum backing...not good.  I fixed

 mine recently:

 http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20090503/index.html

 Here's the bottom of the box:

 http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/engine/20051127/RV200511220080.html

 So there really isn't any plumbing required.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 On 12/30/2010 10:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

> Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have  

> it

> installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter scenario.

>

> Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods, etc?   

> I'm

> trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc.

>

> Thanks for the help,

> Phil

>

> *

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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

There have already been a lot of replies, but IIRC, the plans call the trap door in the front of the FAB the "alternate air" and the one on the bottom the "air filter bypass".  I think the air filter bypass is definitely needed, but not the alternate air, which really, as Tim mentioned, just acts as a carb heat.  I have personally never had to use either.  In the case of icing conditions, I can see how the alternate air could possibly be a help that could avoid needing to bypass the filter, but beyond that one scenario, the alternate air seems to add no service.  I always install the bypass door so it an be closed by pushing the knob, but I realize that if it has to be used, it will likely not need to be closed again in flight, so that's probably not very important.

 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

C: 352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694 

 

On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

[quote]

Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter scenario.

Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods, etc?  I'm trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc.

Thanks for the help,

 Phil   	  Quote: 	
		  



	
[b]

taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  I don't usually get worked up over threads like this but I have a problem  with any control in the cabin that is not reversible. Under what conditions  (scenario) would you pull such a control, realizing that once you did, you  can't reverse it? I am not trying to be ornery here, just trying to learn  something so please educate me.

  

 Roger

  

 -----

 [quote]   Original Message ----- 

   From: Jesse Saint (jesse(at)saintaviation.com) 

   To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 5:41    PM

   Subject: Re: Alternate Air    intake

   



There have already been a lot of replies, but IIRC, the plans    call the trap door in the front of the FAB the "alternate air" and the one on    the bottom the "air filter bypass".  I think the air filter bypass is    definitely needed, but not the alternate air, which really, as Tim mentioned,    just acts as a carb heat.  I have personally never had to use either.     In the case of icing conditions, I can see how the alternate air could    possibly be a help that could avoid needing to bypass the filter, but beyond    that one scenario, the alternate air seems to add no service.  I always    install the bypass door so it an be closed by pushing the knob, but I realize    that if it has to be used, it will likely not need to be closed again in    flight, so that's probably not very important.    

   Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

C:    352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694 



      On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		       

Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it      installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter  scenario.     

Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods,      etc?  I'm trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc.     

Thanks for the help,

Phil 	  Quote: 	
		  



	




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title='about:3D"http://www.aeroelectric.com"' href='3D"http://www.aeroelectric.com"'>www.aeroelectric.com

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[b]

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

How about using fuel tank sealant on the airfilter bypass door in addition to the rivets??



As for also installing the carburator heat door, seems to me that activating this door once the realization of icing or hail would be prudent and may allow one to not have to activate the "air filter bypass door". Seeing that the later cannot be closed in flight, the carb heat door would be the first line of defense.

Shut down proceedures might also be to close the Carb heat door to keep snow, nesting birds, other critters or insects out. 

Just thinking out loud. 

getting close to paint

John G



From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Subject: Re: Alternate Air intake

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:41:52 -0500

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com



  There have already been a lot of replies, but IIRC, the plans call the trap door in the front of the FAB the "alternate air" and the one on the bottom the "air filter bypass".  I think the air filter bypass is definitely needed, but not the alternate air, which really, as Tim mentioned, just acts as a carb heat.  I have personally never had to use either.  In the case of icing conditions, I can see how the alternate air could possibly be a help that could avoid needing to bypass the filter, but beyond that one scenario, the alternate air seems to add no service.  I always install the bypass door so it an be closed by pushing the knob, but I realize that if it has to be used, it will likely not need to be closed again in flight, so that's probably not very important.

 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

C: 352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694 

 

On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

[quote]Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter scenario.

Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods, etc?  I'm trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc.

Thanks for the help,

 Phil

   	  Quote: 	
		  



	




3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

s.com

on

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RV10-List

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[b]

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

The control only bypasses filtering air to the engine. So  a ground reset is not an issue. If it is ever used the PIC won't be worrying  about reset but getting the iced up 10 on the ground.

 [quote]   ---

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

Think about a bird strike that plugs the normal  air intake.  There is no harm done in actuating the alternate air door, the  engine operation not be effected much if at all and there would be no need to  reverse until after landing.  I know it is not designed to be â€œclosed in  flightâ€ but my control will open and close the door at least with the engine  shut down and on the ground.  I have not tried it in flight.

  

 Dick Sipp

 N110DV 300 hours



  



   I don't usually get worked up over threads like this but I have a problem  with any control in the cabin that is not reversible. Under what conditions  (scenario) would you pull such a control, realizing that once you did, you can't  reverse it? I am not trying to be ornery here, just trying to learn something so  please educate me.

  

 Roger

  

 -----

 [quote]   Original Message ----- 

   From: Jesse Saint (jesse(at)saintaviation.com) 

   To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 5:41    PM

   Subject: Re: Alternate Air    intake

    

There have already been a lot of replies, but IIRC, the plans    call the trap door in the front of the FAB the "alternate air" and the one on    the bottom the "air filter bypass".  I think the air filter bypass is    definitely needed, but not the alternate air, which really, as Tim mentioned,    just acts as a carb heat.  I have personally never had to use    either.  In the case of icing conditions, I can see how the alternate air    could possibly be a help that could avoid needing to bypass the filter, but    beyond that one scenario, the alternate air seems to add no service.  I    always install the bypass door so it an be closed by pushing the knob, but I    realize that if it has to be used, it will likely not need to be closed again    in flight, so that's probably not very important.        

   Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

C:    352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694 

    

      On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		       

Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty easy and I have it      installed.   I'm more concerned with a blocked filter  scenario.     

Does anyone have photos of their installation?  Cowling mods,      etc?  I'm trying to get my mind around the plumbing, etc.     

Thanks for the help,

Phil 	  Quote: 	
		  



	
	


    



 	  Quote: 	
		  



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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

I'm with Roger ..... and since I'm not to that point, please tell me     what prevents installation of a 'reversible' bypass control???

     Linn

     

     

     On 12/30/2010 9:31 PM, Roger Standley wrote:     [quote]                            <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->                I don't usually get worked up over threads like this but I           have a problem with any control in the cabin that is not           reversible. Under what conditions (scenario) would you pull           such a control, realizing that once you did, you can't reverse           it? I am not trying to be ornery here, just trying to learn           something so please educate me.

          

         Roger

          

         -----

          	  Quote: 	
		             Original Message ----- 

           From: Jesse Saint (jesse(at)saintaviation.com) 

           To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)           

           Sent: Thursday, December             30, 2010 5:41 PM

           Subject: Re: RV10-List:             Alternate Air intake

           

           

           There have already been a lot of replies, but IIRC, the plans           call the trap door in the front of the FAB the "alternate air"           and the one on the bottom the "air filter bypass".  I think           the air filter bypass is definitely needed, but not the           alternate air, which really, as Tim mentioned, just acts as a           carb heat.  I have personally never had to use either.  In the           case of icing conditions, I can see how the alternate air           could possibly be a help that could avoid needing to bypass           the filter, but beyond that one scenario, the alternate air           seems to add no service.  I always install the bypass door so           it an be closed by pushing the knob, but I realize that if it           has to be used, it will likely not need to be closed again in           flight, so that's probably not very important.           

             Jesse Saint

                 Saint Aviation, Inc.

                 jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

                 C: 352-427-0285

                 F: 815-377-3694 

             

                            On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

                               	  Quote: 	
		                   

Yeah I'm not asking about the static, that's pretty                   easy and I have it installed.   I'm more concerned                   with a blocked filter scenario.                 

Does anyone have photos of their installation?                    Cowling mods, etc?  I'm trying to get my mind around                   the plumbing, etc.                 

Thanks for the help,

                   Phil                  	  Quote: 	
		  



	
               



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     [b]

taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: Alternate Air intake

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  OK, agreed. But let's follow this icing scenario. I am flying along and  notice a drop in MP as the filter and maybe a drop in AS as the pitot  ices up. I add throttle and get little response, maybe a drop in EGT. So I  suspect icing? I pull Alt Air (it's reversible). MP gradually increases. AS  continues to drop. I look at the GPS ground speed and see no change. I am  thinking, the pitot is icing over, the engine filter was icing over but the Alt  Air is working and keeping the engine going near normal. I descent looking for  warmer air.

  

 Is this the right way to work through this?

  

 Roger

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