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dan(at)azshowersolutions. Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season!
As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical connections
to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know.
I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are
familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the week
off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet
probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2
CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due
to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone fast-on
connection provided at the engine.
So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very specific
indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow the
thermocouple to send correct info...
My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes to
ground...but I don't want to guess at this.
Any help would be appreciated.
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craig(at)craigandjean.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:43 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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The Rotax CHT probes are not thermocouples (with a plus and minus lead).
They are resistors whose resistance varies (inversely) with heat (also known
as Negative Temperature Coefficient or NTC probes). One side of the resistor
grounds through the body of the probe to the head. Check the GRT site for
Rotax-specific information or general information on connecting resistive
probes, resistive water temperature senders or NTC probes. The same kind of
probes are used for oil temperature.
-- Craig
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Posts: 1392 Location: Udall, KS, USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Dan, See the Installation Manual, Chapter 21 page 127. The CHT sensor is grounded through the engine block.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com (dan(at)azshowersolutions.com)> wrote:
Quote: | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com (dan(at)azshowersolutions.com)>
Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season!
As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical connections
to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know.
I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are
familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the week
off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet
probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2
CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due
to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone fast-on
connection provided at the engine.
So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very specific
indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow the
thermocouple to send correct info...
My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes to
ground...but I don't want to guess at this.
Any help would be appreciated.
===========
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ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
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le, List Admin.
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Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
�-�G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
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dan(at)azshowersolutions. Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:57 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Richard,
I have been reading that page, however it does not indicate anywhere as to using just one wire coming from the EIS...and if so, which one? Would I just cut the second one off? The manual is vague.
[quote]
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 12:42:15 PM
Subject: Re: EIS 4000 connections
Dan, See the Installation Manual, Chapter 21 page 127. The CHT sensor is grounded through the engine block.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com (dan(at)azshowersolutions.com)> wrote:
Quote: | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com (dan(at)azshowersolutions.com)>
Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season!
As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical connections
to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know.
I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are
familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the week
off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet
probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2
CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due
to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone fast-on
connection provided at the engine.
So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very specific
indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow the
thermocouple to send correct info...
My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes to
ground...but I don't want to guess at this.
Any help would be appreciated.
===========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
|
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigatrums.matronics.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://forums.matronics=================
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[b]
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h&jeuropa
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 645
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: Re: EIS 4000 connections |
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Hi Dan,
You use the CHT sensors supplied by GRT. They are thermocouples. Use the red & white wire GRT supplied to connect them to Connector B.
The Rotax (VDO) supplied sensors are resistive and could be set up as aux inputs to the EIS if you desire.
I just unscrewed each Rotax (VDO) sensors, placed the lug of the GRT sensor under it and rescrewed it in to secure the GRT sensor.
I also did a few checks and satisified myself that the GRT sensor indicated the same as the Rotax (VDO) sensor.
Hope this helps.
Jim Butcher
Europa XS 914
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dan(at)azshowersolutions. Guest
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Thank you all for the info and ideas. I have decided to get the ring
thermocouples that fit over the spark plugs. Jim, I'm guessing these are the
"connector B" that you used?
Thanks all again,
Dan
---
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte Guest
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Dan
trouble with these is they are disturbed every time you check the plugs. Not reliable long term imho
Graham
From: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December, 2010 15:28:55
Subject: Re: Re: EIS 4000 connections
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com (dan(at)azshowersolutions.com)>
Thank you all for the info and ideas. I have decided to get the ring
thermocouples that fit over the spark plugs. Jim, I'm guessing these are the
"connector B" that you used?
Thanks all again,
Dan
---
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h&jeuropa
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 645
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:02 am Post subject: Re: EIS 4000 connections |
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Dan,
No what I was trying to say is to use the CHT thermocouples supplied by GRT instead of the VDO sensors that came on the engine. The CHT thermocouples came with your EIS if you told them it was for a Rotax 912 / 914 (if you didn't, you need to get them from GRT). They look like a large solder lug and each has a red and a white wire attached.
They are to be bolted to the cylinder head at the same place as the Rotax supplied VDO sensor. Either use the VDO sensor to bolt them to the head (strictly as a bolt, not connected as a sensor) or use the metric bolt GRT supplies for that purpose.
They are not spark plug gasket CHT thermocouples. Spark plug thermocouples do not work well on a 912/914 since the plug is recessed into the head and therefore difficult to fit a gasket under.
There is a diagram on Figure 5b-Connector B Wiring in the EIS manual showing where to connect the red wire and where to connect the white wire for each sensor. Use the crimp on connectors supplied by GRT to make the connections. So, for the CHT sensor on cylinder head 2, connect the red wire from the sensor to the red wire on pin 10. Likewise the white wire for CHT 2 goes to pin 22. For cylinder head 3, the red goes to pin 8 and the white goes to pin 20.
There is also a note (page 14, bottom of section 5.2. about what to do with unused CHT inputs (in your case CHT 1 & 4). To avoid bad readings, connect the red & white wires together to make a "short".
Doe this make sense?
Jim Butcher
Europa XS 914
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dan(at)azshowersolutions. Guest
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Jim,
Thank you very much for the detailed response. After quite a bit of searching
and scratching for the information, I got it figured out between this group and
another site I belong to. My trouble originated due to the EIS being part of the
Kitfox kit I purchased from a second party. Not all the parts or information was
there, so I had a handicap going into it. What threw me thinking the ring
thermocouples went over the spark plugs was the install manual states that. They
did not, however, diferentiate this between engine types. Thanks again for the
information to all who responded.
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
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ruruny(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Dan,
Attached is a pic of the CHT sensor from GRT installed as Jim described. Note the bolt
holding the GRT ring terminal on. It looks like one black wire but that is heat shrink, there is
a white wire and red wire in there.
The existing VDO CHT sensors removed are not wasted. Look at the blue coolant hose.
You see the fitting that I got from GRT tapped into the hose held in with clamps. It is designed
to accept one of those VDO CHT sensors for the EIS to measure coolant temp
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dan(at)azshowersolutions. Guest
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Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: EIS 4000 connections |
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Thanks for the pic Brian...worth a thousand words :>)
Dan
[quote]
From: "ruruny(at)aol.com" <ruruny(at)aol.com>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 7:29:15 PM
Subject: Re: EIS 4000 connections
Dan,
Attached is a pic of the CHT sensor from GRT installed as Jim described. Note the bolt
holding the GRT ring terminal on. It looks like one black wire but that is heat shrink, there is
a white wire and red wire in there.
The existing VDO CHT sensors removed are not wasted. Look at the blue coolant hose.
You see the fitting that I got from GRT tapped into the hose held in with clamps. It is designed
to accept one of those VDO CHT sensors for the EIS to measure coolant temp.
If you have sensors for a different type of engine installation, call GRT and see if they will do a
trade for the proper sensors.
Brian Unruh
www.701builder.com
[b]
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