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pednicholson(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:10 am Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Gentlemen,

I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.

Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306.  The 304 looks shorter so I

wonder if it would be as

comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306.  I am 6'1"

and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Philip Nicholson

(Ontario)

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:24 am Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat 

pan.  The 304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs 

will rub up against the edges of the seat pan.   Many people over 6'1" 

use the 306 including in the 52 which does not have a vertical seat 

adjustment without a problem.   Use the seat height adjuster on the CJ 

if you think you're too close to the canopy glass.

Dennis



On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Gentlemen,

 I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.

 Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306.  The 304 looks shorter so I

 wonder if it would be as

 comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306.  I am 6'1"

 and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.

 Thoughts?

 Thanks,

 Philip Nicholson

 (Ontario)




	


-- 

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-2141

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

One of things you need to be concerned about on chutes, is its porosity.  I had a chute for a number of years until the gal I had repacking it suggested that if I had to use it, I'd want to consider trying to land in trees!  Otherwise I'd "most likely brake ankles or leg."  Now I have made 7 jumps and you do land with a very pronounced thud.  And since my current wight is more massive than back 63, I took her advice.

    

   Anyway I advise you make sure you take into account your weight (now & future) when picking the chute.  And gentle men, always put into your mind a plan on when you will use a chute.  What conditions will you 'step over the side'?  Try imagine all the situations that would make you do so.  Plus take a little time climbing OUT of your cockpit with your chute on.  You may be surprised how difficult it is.  You can take this educational experience if you will all the way to a local jump school and try one or a couple of tandem jumps with an instructor.  Much saner than the old days, believe me.

    

   And if you don't think you'll ever need to? - - - well I nearly departed a Pitts I spent 5 long years building.  With smoke filling the cockpit, one flicker of flame and I would have departed all that work, in 5/10s of a second.  That kind of 'back-up' and a plan made long before, allowed me to think about and work the situation.  A chute is not just to sit on.

    

   Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

 

 

   

 

 

   --

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Let me add that if you're tall, you need to be sure about your seat cushion height with the 306, because you can't remove it and replace it with a thinner one the way you can with a 304. Standard on the 306 (Squadron) is 4 inches. I ordered a 306 with  C-9 chute (which is bigger than standard), and it came with the standard 4-inch cushion and I couldn't close the canopy (Yak-52). If I had ordered the cushion in one or two-inch memory foam, I probably would have cleared OK. I would up having to sell it and I did get the 304 with an additional one inch travel pad, which is OK in my seat pan. However I'm tall, and with my knees bent quite a bit, so I don't touch the front of the pan with my thighs as Dennis mentioned. Just my experience as a tall person in a 52. No idea about other types. -Eric

On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat pan.  The 304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs will rub up against the edges of the seat pan.   Many people over 6'1" use the 306 including in the 52 which does not have a vertical seat adjustment without a problem.   Use the seat height adjuster on the CJ if you think you're too close to the canopy glass.

 Dennis

 On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:

> 

> 

> Gentlemen,

> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.

> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306.  The 304 looks shorter so I

> wonder if it would be as

> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306.  I am 6'1"

> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.

> Thoughts?

> Thanks,

> Philip Nicholson

> (Ontario)

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

 -- 

 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-285-2141

 334-546-8182 (cell)

 Skype: Yakguy1

 www.yak-52.com

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

You're right on the money Eric.  But the CJ has a vertically adjustable 

seat which helps with the height issues.

Dennis

On 1/9/2011 4:53 PM, Eric Wobschall wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Let me add that if you're tall, you need to be sure about your seat cushion height with the 306, because you can't remove it and replace it with a thinner one the way you can with a 304. Standard on the 306 (Squadron) is 4 inches. I ordered a 306 with  C-9 chute (which is bigger than standard), and it came with the standard 4-inch cushion and I couldn't close the canopy (Yak-52). If I had ordered the cushion in one or two-inch memory foam, I probably would have cleared OK. I would up having to sell it and I did get the 304 with an additional one inch travel pad, which is OK in my seat pan. However I'm tall, and with my knees bent quite a bit, so I don't touch the front of the pan with my thighs as Dennis mentioned. Just my experience as a tall person in a 52. No idea about other types. -Eric

 On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

> 

>

> The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat pan.  The 304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs will rub up against the edges of the seat pan.   Many people over 6'1" use the 306 including in the 52 which does not have a vertical seat adjustment without a problem.   Use the seat height adjuster on the CJ if you think you're too close to the canopy glass.

> Dennis

>

> On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:

>> 

>>

>> Gentlemen,

>> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.

>> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306.  The 304 looks shorter so I

>> wonder if it would be as

>> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306.  I am 6'1"

>> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.

>> Thoughts?

>> Thanks,

>> Philip Nicholson

>> (Ontario)

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

> -- 

> A. Dennis Savarese

> 334-285-2141

> 334-546-8182 (cell)

> Skype: Yakguy1

> www.yak-52.com

>

-- 

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-2141

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Nice feature.

On Jan 10, 2011, at 6:02 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 You're right on the money Eric.  But the CJ has a vertically adjustable seat which helps with the height issues.

 Dennis

 

 On 1/9/2011 4:53 PM, Eric Wobschall wrote:

> 

> 

> Let me add that if you're tall, you need to be sure about your seat cushion height with the 306, because you can't remove it and replace it with a thinner one the way you can with a 304. Standard on the 306 (Squadron) is 4 inches. I ordered a 306 with  C-9 chute (which is bigger than standard), and it came with the standard 4-inch cushion and I couldn't close the canopy (Yak-52). If I had ordered the cushion in one or two-inch memory foam, I probably would have cleared OK. I would up having to sell it and I did get the 304 with an additional one inch travel pad, which is OK in my seat pan. However I'm tall, and with my knees bent quite a bit, so I don't touch the front of the pan with my thighs as Dennis mentioned. Just my experience as a tall person in a 52. No idea about other types. -Eric

> 

> 

> On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat pan.  The 304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs will rub up against the edges of the seat pan.   Many people over 6'1" use the 306 including in the 52 which does not have a vertical seat adjustment without a problem.   Use the seat height adjuster on the CJ if you think you're too close to the canopy glass.

>> Dennis

>> 

>> On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Gentlemen,

>>> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.

>>> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306.  The 304 looks shorter so I

>>> wonder if it would be as

>>> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306.  I am 6'1"

>>> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.

>>> Thoughts?

>>> Thanks,

>>> Philip Nicholson

>>> (Ontario)

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> -- 

>> A. Dennis Savarese

>> 334-285-2141

>> 334-546-8182 (cell)

>> Skype: Yakguy1

>> www.yak-52.com

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

 

 -- 

 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-285-2141

 334-546-8182 (cell)

 Skype: Yakguy1

 www.yak-52.com

grabstein(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

306 for me. Quite comfortable. No bumping of my head (6'3")



--

Kurt "It" Howerton

N923YK

530.312.1299

Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 9, 2011, at 10:13, Philip Nicholson <pednicholson(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Gentlemen,

 I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.

 Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306.  The 304 looks shorter so I

 wonder if it would be as

 comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306.  I am 6'1"

 and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.

 Thoughts?

 Thanks,

 Philip Nicholson

 (Ontario)

thomasg(at)infosysnetwork
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Philip,

I am going through the same process right now. I just bought a CJ-6A and put many hours looking at chutes (I’ve never had a chute before). I narrowed it down to the Strong 306 or the Butler. Butler makes custom chutes. They make the harness specific to the pilot (you send them several different measurements) and they have a model that is made specifically for the CJ seat pan.

 

Other than one being customized for the pilot (Butler), the biggest difference I have seen between the two are the Operation Limitations. The Strong 306 is limited to 254lbs (115kg) and up to 150 knots IAS. Butler's Custom Seat Pack (CJ-6A) has three chute options with different Operating Limitations:

<![if !supportLists]>1.  <![endif]>LoPo 350 is rated for 220lbs (at) 150 knots.

<![if !supportLists]>2.  <![endif]>LoPo 450 is rated for 285lbs (at) 150 knots.

<![if !supportLists]>3.  <![endif]>LoPo 550 is rated for 350lbs (at) 150 knots. 

 

Strong 306 Operation Limitation (Section 1.3  http://www.strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/306manual2.pdf) 

Butler’s LoPo Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/LoPo%20Intro%20page.htm 

 

Butler also has their H-X series Canopies that utilizes their BAT Sombrero Slider system that has been certificated for speeds over 150 knots. Their ratings are:

<![if !supportLists]>1.  <![endif]>H-X 300 is rated for 175lbs (at) 150 KEAS

<![if !supportLists]>2.  <![endif]>H-X 400 is rated for 236lbs (at) 170 KEAS

<![if !supportLists]>3.  <![endif]>H-X 500 is rated for 306lbs (at) 170 KEAS

<![if !supportLists]>4.  <![endif]>H-X 600 is rated for 382lbs (at) 170 KEAS

Butler’s H-X Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm 

I am not going to try to explain what the BAT Sombrero Slider system does, but from their web site “We have demonstrated beyond any doubt that the BAT Sombrero Slider™ is the most effective device ever invented for controlling the inflation process of conventional parachutes. It completely eliminates inversion type malfunctions and provides the parachute designer with one of his most versatile tools in controlling opening shock and force profiles. Further, it is the only device ever invented that benefits the entire speed range of the parachute system with no detrimental side effects.” It’s worth reading their web page about the BAT and you can make your own decision. http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm  The price difference between the Lopo 550 and the H-X 500 was around $900.

I was intrigued about the H-X series and a local aerobatics Pitts pilot told me he would fly with nothing but that system due to the higher opening speed and especially due to the BAT system, which opens the chute quicker. The above ratings for the H-X are 170 KEAS, but Butler states they have done much testing of their chutes and others and their chutes have not failed well above 170 while other manufacturers have. This got me thinking though about how fast you would be traveling when you ejected from a plane. My thinking was that you would slow down quickly and would be pulling your chute at a speed much lower than when you ejected. I posed this question to Tom Fowler of Butler and he responded “You will slow to 150 knots from 200 knots in approximately one second.  With structural failure, the aircraft will accelerate to a faster speed than red-line.  This type of emergency is difficult to bail out from and by the time you get out the aircraft is probably going to be going hair-on-fire fast.  It is rare, but it has happened and the pilot successfully bailed out but the canopy failed because he was going too fast.” 

 

 

The best price I have found so far on the Strong is from the Parachute Shop for $2,050. http://www.parachuteshop.com/STRONG.htm#Model_306_Squadron_Seat 

Butler’s direct price for the LoPo 550 was $2,210, and $135 for a 3” cushion. I haven’t shopped that price yet.

Butler states that it takes about 6 weeks to custom make the chute. 

Strong says 3-4 weeks if they don’t have one in stock, or you customize it (pockets, etc).

 

I spoke with many CJ and Yak pilots. It seemed the majority (60%) owned the Strong 306. Everyone liked the chute they owned, and no one had anything bad to say about either one other then any chute will become uncomfortable after a few hours. One Butler chute owner did state that their cushion was really hard in the cold until their butt warmed it up. Most said that adding a sheepskin pad, lumbar support, and a pocket for ELT/Cell/etc is worth the extra money. 

 

I am a heavier guy, so I am considering the Butler for that reason, but I think either chute would work. I was considering purchasing a Strong 306 and seeing how I like it. Then when I was ready to buy my second chute, either get the same one or move the 306 to the rear seat and get a Butler. I may still do that, but I need to get moving for I need to fly soon!

 

Tom Fowler is a good person to talk to about the Butler. His email is Tom.Fowler(at)ButlerParachutes.com (Tom.Fowler(at)ButlerParachutes.com) 

John Makoski is the Sales Mgr for Strong. His email is jmakoski(at)strongparachutes.com (jmakoski(at)strongparachutes.com) 

 

Good Luck. Let me know what you decide to do.

Tom

 

PS. I had sent Strong an email asking which harness (304 or 306) and chute (26 or 29) they recommended for the CJ. John Makoski’s reply was “For the Nanchang, we highly recommend the Model 306 Squadron seat pack.  This particular model replaces any existing cushion you may have in the seat pan.  The total thickness of the seat cushion plus the chute you are sitting on is approximately 6".  The differences of the 2 canopies you specified below are that the 26ft. canopy is rated at 254 lbs at 150 knts.  The C-9 canopy is rated around 300 lbs at 150 knts.  The C-9 is a much more poris canopy which means it can withstand the higher knts however you will be coming down much faster.  We would definitely recommend our 26 ft. midlite.  This is the most common and popular canopy for all of our warbird communities. “

 

 

 

--

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

The Parachute Shop can hook you up with a 306 Squadron with the Mills C-9 which supposedly has no life limit and can do heavier at a higher speed. Watch that pad thickness, though.

On Jan 9, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote:

[quote]Philip,

I am going through the same process right now. I just bought a CJ-6A and put many hours looking at chutes (I’ve never had a chute before). I narrowed it down to the Strong 306 or the Butler. Butler makes custom chutes. They make the harness specific to the pilot (you send them several different measurements) and they have a model that is made specifically for the CJ seat pan.

 

Other than one being customized for the pilot (Butler), the biggest difference I have seen between the two are the Operation Limitations. The Strong 306 is limited to 254lbs (115kg) and up to 150 knots IAS. Butler's Custom Seat Pack (CJ-6A) has three chute options with different Operating Limitations:

1.  LoPo 350 is rated for 220lbs (at) 150 knots.

2.  LoPo 450 is rated for 285lbs (at) 150 knots.

3.  LoPo 550 is rated for 350lbs (at) 150 knots.

 

Strong 306 Operation Limitation (Section 1.3  http://www.strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/306manual2.pdf)

Butler’s LoPo Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/LoPo%20Intro%20page.htm

 

Butler also has their H-X series Canopies that utilizes their BAT Sombrero Slider system that has been certificated for speeds over 150 knots. Their ratings are:

1.  H-X 300 is rated for 175lbs (at) 150 KEAS

2.  H-X 400 is rated for 236lbs (at) 170 KEAS

3.  H-X 500 is rated for 306lbs (at) 170 KEAS

4.  H-X 600 is rated for 382lbs (at) 170 KEAS

Butler’s H-X Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm



I am not going to try to explain what the BAT Sombrero Slider system does, but from their web site “We have demonstrated beyond any doubt that the BAT Sombrero Slider™ is the most effective device ever invented for controlling the inflation process of conventional parachutes. It completely eliminates inversion type malfunctions and provides the parachute designer with one of his most versatile tools in controlling opening shock and force profiles. Further, it is the only device ever invented that benefits the entire speed range of the parachute system with no detrimental side effects.”It’s worth reading their web page about the BAT and you can make your own decision.http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm  The price difference between the Lopo 550 and the H-X 500 was around $900.I was intrigued about the H-X series and a local aerobatics Pitts pilot told me he would fly with nothing but that system due to the higher opening speed and especially due to the BAT system, which opens the chute quicker. The above ratings for the H-X are 170 KEAS, but Butler states they have done much testing of their chutes and others and their chutes have not failed well above 170 while other manufacturers have. This got me thinking though about how fast you would be traveling when you ejected from a plane. My thinking was that you would slow down quickly and would be pulling your chute at a speed much lower than when you ejected. I posed this question to Tom Fowler of Butler and he responded“You will slow to 150 knots from 200 knots in approximately one second.  With structural failure, the aircraft will accelerate to a faster speed than red-line.  This type of emergency is difficult to bail out from and by the time you get out the aircraft is probably going to be going hair-on-fire fast.  It is rare, but it has happened and the pilot successfully bailed out but the canopy failed because he was going too fast.”

 

 

The best price I have found so far on the Strong is from the Parachute Shop for $2,050.http://www.parachuteshop.com/STRONG.htm#Model_306_Squadron_Seat

Butler’s direct price for the LoPo 550 was $2,210, and $135 for a 3” cushion. I haven’t shopped that price yet.

Butler states that it takes about 6 weeks to custom make the chute.

Strong says 3-4 weeks if they don’t have one in stock, or you customize it (pockets, etc).

 

I spoke with many CJ and Yak pilots. It seemed the majority (60%) owned the Strong 306. Everyone liked the chute they owned, and no one had anything bad to say about either one other then any chute will become uncomfortable after a few hours. One Butler chute owner did state that their cushion was really hard in the cold until their butt warmed it up. Most said that adding a sheepskin pad, lumbar support, and a pocket for ELT/Cell/etc is worth the extra money.

 

I am a heavier guy, so I am considering the Butler for that reason, but I think either chute would work. I was considering purchasing a Strong 306 and seeing how I like it. Then when I was ready to buy my second chute, either get the same one or move the 306 to the rear seat and get a Butler. I may still do that, but I need to get moving for I need to fly soon!

 

Tom Fowler is a good person to talk to about the Butler. His email is Tom.Fowler(at)ButlerParachutes.com (Tom.Fowler(at)ButlerParachutes.com)

John Makoski is the Sales Mgr for Strong. His email is jmakoski(at)strongparachutes.com (jmakoski(at)strongparachutes.com) 

 

Good Luck. Let me know what you decide to do.

Tom

 

PS. I had sent Strong an email asking which harness (304 or 306) and chute (26 or 29) they recommended for the CJ. John Makoski’s reply was “For the Nanchang, we highly recommend the Model 306 Squadron seat pack.  This particular model replaces any existing cushion you may have in the seat pan.  The total thickness of the seat cushion plus the chute you are sitting on is approximately 6".  The differences of the 2 canopies you specified below are that the 26ft. canopy is rated at 254 lbs at 150 knts.  The C-9 canopy is rated around 300 lbs at 150 knts.  The C-9 is a much more poris canopy which means it can withstand the higher knts however you will be coming down much faster.  We would definitely recommend our 26 ft. midlite.  This is the most common and popular canopy for all of our warbird communities. “

 

 

 

--

drc(at)wscare.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Excellent and through post !!



I have a question for TW owners.  What chute are you using?  I have removed the small cushion on the back and use a backpack type parachute (Para-phenalia Wedge Softie)  I have foam in the seatpan and a cushion on top of that and this combination is great for height and back position. (5'9")

I had a seat pack chute in the Yak 55 (National 425) 

I came to really like the seat chute more than the backpack, but I tried the National in the TW and it did not fit the seatpan very well and was too thin, I sat too low in the   TW.  

I am just curious what other people are using in the TW?

Herb



On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:27 PM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote:

[quote]Philip,

I am going through the same process right now. I just bought a CJ-6A and put many hours looking at chutes (I’ve never had a chute before). I narrowed it down to the Strong 306 or the Butler. Butler makes custom chutes. They make the harness specific to the pilot (you send them several different measurements) and they have a model that is made specifically for the CJ seat pan.

 

Other than one being customized for the pilot (Butler), the biggest difference I have seen between the two are the Operation Limitations. The Strong 306 is limited to 254lbs (115kg) and up to 150 knots IAS. Butler's Custom Seat Pack (CJ-6A) has three chute options with different Operating Limitations:

1.  LoPo 350 is rated for 220lbs (at) 150 knots.

2.  LoPo 450 is rated for 285lbs (at) 150 knots.

3.  LoPo 550 is rated for 350lbs (at) 150 knots.

 

Strong 306 Operation Limitation (Section 1.3  http://www.strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/306manual2.pdf)

Butler’s LoPo Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/LoPo%20Intro%20page.htm

 

Butler also has their H-X series Canopies that utilizes their BAT Sombrero Slider system that has been certificated for speeds over 150 knots. Their ratings are:

1.  H-X 300 is rated for 175lbs (at) 150 KEAS

2.  H-X 400 is rated for 236lbs (at) 170 KEAS

3.  H-X 500 is rated for 306lbs (at) 170 KEAS

4.  H-X 600 is rated for 382lbs (at) 170 KEAS

Butler’s H-X Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm



I am not going to try to explain what the BAT Sombrero Slider system does, but from their web site “We have demonstrated beyond any doubt that the BAT Sombrero Slider™ is the most effective device ever invented for controlling the inflation process of conventional parachutes. It completely eliminates inversion type malfunctions and provides the parachute designer with one of his most versatile tools in controlling opening shock and force profiles. Further, it is the only device ever invented that benefits the entire speed range of the parachute system with no detrimental side effects.” It’s worth reading their web page about the BAT and you can make your own decision.http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm  The price difference between the Lopo 550 and the H-X 500 was around $900.I was intrigued about the H-X series and a local aerobatics Pitts pilot told me he would fly with nothing but that system due to the higher opening speed and especially due to the BAT system, which opens the chute quicker. The above ratings for the H-X are 170 KEAS, but Butler states they have done much testing of their chutes and others and their chutes have not failed well above 170 while other manufacturers have. This got me thinking though about how fast you would be traveling when you ejected from a plane. My thinking was that you would slow down quickly and would be pulling your chute at a speed much lower than when you ejected. I posed this question to Tom Fowler of Butler and he responded “You will slow to 150 knots from 200 knots in approximately one second.  With structural failure, the aircraft will accelerate to a faster speed than red-line.  This type of emergency is difficult to bail out from and by the time you get out the aircraft is probably going to be going hair-on-fire fast.  It is rare, but it has happened and the pilot successfully bailed out but the canopy failed because he was going too fast.”

 

 

The best price I have found so far on the Strong is from the Parachute Shop for $2,050.http://www.parachuteshop.com/STRONG.htm#Model_306_Squadron_Seat

Butler’s direct price for the LoPo 550 was $2,210, and $135 for a 3” cushion. I haven’t shopped that price yet.

Butler states that it takes about 6 weeks to custom make the chute.

Strong says 3-4 weeks if they don’t have one in stock, or you customize it (pockets, etc).

 

I spoke with many CJ and Yak pilots. It seemed the majority (60%) owned the Strong 306. Everyone liked the chute they owned, and no one had anything bad to say about either one other then any chute will become uncomfortable after a few hours. One Butler chute owner did state that their cushion was really hard in the cold until their butt warmed it up. Most said that adding a sheepskin pad, lumbar support, and a pocket for ELT/Cell/etc is worth the extra money.

 

I am a heavier guy, so I am considering the Butler for that reason, but I think either chute would work. I was considering purchasing a Strong 306 and seeing how I like it. Then when I was ready to buy my second chute, either get the same one or move the 306 to the rear seat and get a Butler. I may still do that, but I need to get moving for I need to fly soon!

 

Tom Fowler is a good person to talk to about the Butler. His email is Tom.Fowler(at)ButlerParachutes.com (Tom.Fowler(at)ButlerParachutes.com)

John Makoski is the Sales Mgr for Strong. His email is jmakoski(at)strongparachutes.com (jmakoski(at)strongparachutes.com) 

 

Good Luck. Let me know what you decide to do.

Tom

 

PS. I had sent Strong an email asking which harness (304 or 306) and chute (26 or 29) they recommended for the CJ. John Makoski’s reply was “For the Nanchang, we highly recommend the Model 306 Squadron seat pack.  This particular model replaces any existing cushion you may have in the seat pan.  The total thickness of the seat cushion plus the chute you are sitting on is approximately 6".  The differences of the 2 canopies you specified below are that the 26ft. canopy is rated at 254 lbs at 150 knts.  The C-9 canopy is rated around 300 lbs at 150 knts.  The C-9 is a much more poris canopy which means it can withstand the higher knts however you will be coming down much faster.  We would definitely recommend our 26 ft. midlite.  This is the most common and popular canopy for all of our warbird communities. “

 

 

 

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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Pappy is absolutely correct. You make the decision to eject before ever leaving the ground. You need to review your EPs and decide under what circumstances would you would give the jet back to the taxpayers in pieces. No one steps to fly that day planning on stepping over the side. Sane person that is. The average descent rate for the standard military chute is 17 mph for a 180 lb pilot. Simply said, the fatter you are the faster you are going fall therefore arriving at terra firma at a higher rate of descent.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 9, 2011, at 1:31 PM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com) wrote:



[quote] One of things you need to be concerned about on chutes, is its porosity.  I had a chute for a number of years until the gal I had repacking it suggested that if I had to use it, I'd want to consider trying to land in trees!  Otherwise I'd "most likely brake ankles or leg."  Now I have made 7 jumps and you do land with a very pronounced thud.  And since my current wight is more massive than back 63, I took her advice.

    

   Anyway I advise you make sure you take into account your weight (now & future) when picking the chute.  And gentle men, always put into your mind a plan on when you will use a chute.  What conditions will you 'step over the side'?  Try imagine all the situations that would make you do so.  Plus take a little time climbing OUT of your cockpit with your chute on.  You may be surprised how difficult it is.  You can take this educational experience if you will all the way to a local jump school and try one or a couple of tandem jumps with an instructor.  Much saner than the old days, believe me.

    

   And if you don't think you'll ever need to? - - - well I nearly departed a Pitts I spent 5 long years building.  With smoke filling the cockpit, one flicker of flame and I would have departed all that work, in 5/10s of a second.  That kind of 'back-up' and a plan made long before, allowed me to think about and work the situation.  A chute is not just to sit on.

    

   Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

 

 

   

 

 

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markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Doc,

      I haven't weighed in on  this on the YAK List, but it seems that everyone is worring about chute  size/porosity etc too much.  IF I can actually get get out of the aircraft  for whatever reason I've decided that's the best alternative at hand and IF am  at an altitude that I can get a swing in the chute I don't give a shit whether I  bust an ankle if I'm alive.  Survival is paramount, everything else is  gravy!

  

 Mark 

 [quote]   ---

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Its just not how fast you come down, but will it stay together during the opening shock.  A lot of good, a bunch of blown panels will do you.  Its been along time since I flew a jump plane, but I saw a lot of malfunctions.  Back then the sky divers use surplus emergency chutes.  The chutes were packed into "sleeves" that allowed a 'gentler' opening sequence not only for the body but to keep from blowing cores or panels.  Even than I can tell you the shock is remembered.  A chute with a blown panel not only comes down faster but will spin because it is spilling air out one side.  This makes it come down even faster.  I am sure every chute manufacture will most likely ask what your weight is.  When I brought my, Strong's, it was the first thing the sales guy asked me.



BTW I've seen a couple of "cut always" where a jumper had to get rid of his main chute and go to his reserve.  They were very unstable, with large oscillation (swings) and every one broke something.  Believe me you do not want to hit the ground on the wrong end of a swing, the radial rotation speed in the arch is added to you falling speed at some point.



Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

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markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: Strong Parachute Selection

Pappy,

      Thanks for the  reply.  Here's my thought process for emergency bailout chute  considerations (not skydiving):    

      Won't a jumper slow  to a terminal velocity of around 120 mph within approximately one second of  clearing the aircraft?  If I recall my Navy training they taught us to  count to three (likely less than 3 seconds in an extremis situation) to  stabilize your body in the airstream before you pull the D ring to avoid  entanglement.  By then you'd be well under the 150 mph canopy rating.   Keep in mind that we're talking about YAKs/Nanchangs not Mustangs.  If you  manage to pull 12+ g's in a YAK or Nanchang the resulting twisted wreckage from  the airframe failure or GLOC will make the chute a moot point.  In the  event of a midair collision our (notso)sleek airframes will likely become pretty  draggy and hopefully be escapable if the pilot closes the throttle.   Otherwise a properly executed controlled bailout due to engine failure  over hostile terrain like mountains should be well within a  150 mph canopy rating.   Navy parachute riggers were adamant about  properly cinched chutes or torso harnesses so I'm still in the habit of snugging  up my harness once I'm seated in the aircraft.   But, even that  was for stories of aircrew punching out at 450 kts where the harness came  to an immediate halt and the body hit the webbing at near the  original ejection speed resulting in severe injury from the lower crotch  straps.   I also tell my wife if we ever have to go over the side  or out the top in a controlled bailout to pull on every bitter end until it  hurts if she has time.  As far as blown panels, wouldn't they be  more a function of an aged or improperly inspected canopy at the likely  speeds we would deploy a chute?  Granted that the lower the deployment  speed, the better everything is going to turn out.   That's my thought  process for anything beyond one swing is gravy.

  

 Thanks,

 Mark Davis

 N44YK

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