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yak 50 with electronic ignition

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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Hi all,

 

Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).

 

The idea and concept  belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!

 

I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also the distributor from the mag are left in place.

 

First results are very promising. There’s a noticeable difference in RPM between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time.

 

Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now finally a first test flight, I am rather confident.

 

Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when installing an independent  backup alternator system.

 

Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would probably be very marginal.

 

It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a  > 45000 volt system on the Russian solid core plug wires.

 

One of the main goals was to find out if there’s a workable alternative for the mag coils. This has been proven.

 

BR,

 

Jan Mevis

YK50 RA2005K

YK52 RA1453K

 

 

  [quote][b]

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago and are waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the test stand. They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We gave it to an individual for flight test and they never installed it. We finally got it back. 

          It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a regular mag, had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a Toyota magnetic pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module and a Toyota coil is installed in the base of the magneto case. It uses the regular rotor and cap. The result is a 12 volt electronic magneto that is a drop in replacement for the M9 magneto. 

          It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could benefit from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off list and I can supply the parts to replace the cam and points. 

          We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple coils and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and the software is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to fit in the available time. It has the advantage in that it allows different timing depending on multiple variables. (RPM, temperature, fuel octane, manifold pressure etc.). It is also a step to an electronic fuel injection system. 

 

 

George Coy

 

Motorstar NA

714 Airport Rd.

Swanton VT 05488

802-868-5633 off

802-363-5782 cell

george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)

SKYPE george.coy

motorstarna.com

 

 

 

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis

Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

 

Hi all,

 

Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).

 

The idea and concept  belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!

 

I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also the distributor from the mag are left in place.

 

First results are very promising. There’s a noticeable difference in RPM between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time.

 

Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now finally a first test flight, I am rather confident.

 

Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when installing an independent  backup alternator system.

 

Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would probably be very marginal.

 

It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a  > 45000 volt system on the Russian solid core plug wires.

 

One of the main goals was to find out if there’s a workable alternative for the mag coils. This has been proven.

 

BR,

 

Jan Mevis

YK50 RA2005K

YK52 RA1453K

 

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george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago and are waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the test stand. They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We gave it to an individual for flight test and they never installed it. We finally got it back. 

          It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a regular mag, had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a Toyota magnetic pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module and a Toyota coil is installed in the base of the magneto case. It uses the regular rotor and cap. The result is a 12 volt electronic magneto that is a drop in replacement for the M9 magneto. 

          It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could benefit from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off list and I can supply the parts to replace the cam and points. 

          We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple coils and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and the software is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to fit in the available time. It has the advantage in that it allows different timing depending on multiple variables. (RPM, temperature, fuel octane, manifold pressure etc.). It is also a step to an electronic fuel injection system. 

 

 

George Coy

 

Motorstar NA

714 Airport Rd.

Swanton VT 05488

802-868-5633 off

802-363-5782 cell

george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)

SKYPE george.coy

motorstarna.com

 

 

 

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis

Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

 

Hi all,

 

Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).

 

The idea and concept  belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!

 

I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also the distributor from the mag are left in place.

 

First results are very promising. There’s a noticeable difference in RPM between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time.

 

Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now finally a first test flight, I am rather confident.

 

Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when installing an independent  backup alternator system.

 

Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would probably be very marginal.

 

It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a  > 45000 volt system on the Russian solid core plug wires.

 

One of the main goals was to find out if there’s a workable alternative for the mag coils. This has been proven.

 

BR,

 

Jan Mevis

YK50 RA2005K

YK52 RA1453K

 

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:49 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

George, 



We (actually Jan) are not using a multiple coil array, but instead a

single (external) coil.  The coil is fired by an MSD system, as

described to the list in a previous posting.  The design would indeed

benefit from either a Hall Effect sensor, or some other form of "points"

replacement, but it was decided not to do this at first, but to instead

just go with a proof of concept test.  



The plus side of this approach is that the Russian Mag (right side,

lower plugs) is left relatively intact.  Jan has designed a replacement

for the original cigarette shaft, and just the coil has been removed.

Thus, this design remains as a truly "field installable" package.

Sounds like I am selling this thing, but actually not.  



In any case, the only thing that the points do now is to provide a

trigger for the electronics package.  The advantage of keeping the

points is that you can still do some sort of "relative" timing to the

other mag using points closure as your comparison.  The points will

never erode or pit, since there is no high current demand on them

anymore.  However, mechanical failure is of course still possible, and

the accuracy of point triggers are obviously not nearly as accurate as

magnetic or hall effect sensors. 



The beauty of this design George, is that it is cheap, it is easily

available right now and the only 12 volt signal needed is a low current

turn on voltage.  The rest of the whole design is being run directly off

of 28 VDC, so no conversion of the original design of the electrical

system is necessary.  The electronic ignition is currently being run off

a B&C small alternator, with the aircraft battery as backup, and as

backup to that, there is of course the original left mag.  



The design has provisions to add retarded timing for starting.  When

that is added, the engine can be started on either the original system,

or the electronic system on the right mag.  Thus you now have backup

starting ignition as well.  



Your package sounds much more modern and obviously has great potential.

The design I came up with here, is very cheap, and should be extremely

reliable, and already has obvious gains at idle and with starting.  



I still can't believe that Jan trusted me enough to put this design into

an M-14R engine.  However, that engine also has a lot to gain from a

Multiple Spark Capacitive Discharge ignition system.  In any case, Jan

really did it right and did not spare a nickel to do a really

professional installation.  I believe he is taking pictures to document

everything.  



The timing on this design is also variable should that be necessary, but

not nearly as complete as what you are discussing.  Obviously, it would

be wonderful to have a complete package such as you are describing, but

for right now... this has some interesting potential, especially

considering price.  



Lastly, in case anyone is thinking otherwise, this is not the Mark

Bitterlich ignition system, available with only a slight markup from my

new company.  (Big Smile).  As I said before, I am giving this design

away to anyone who needs it.  Jan Mevis was generous enough to offer

flight testing on a VERY rare, expensive, and (almost) one of a kind

engine, and for this we should all be very grateful.  



Mark Bitterlich 

--

dstroud(at)xplornet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:02 pm Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Giday, George. I've done the same process you describe  years ago with Subaru engines in smaller planes. It works very well.  I developed the same system for a Corvair

 engine using a Ford, slightly machined down reluctor with  equal success. I was looking into my Housai mags to see if that system would  work well too but didn't have 

 much time to continue development last year. It struck me  though, that a lobe reading pickup might be able to read directly  from the existing cam on the Housai mag eliminating 

 the need for a new, machined  reluctor.  I do note that the cam lobes are not very well defined due to  there being nine of them on a small diameter. Any thoughts ?

  

  

 David Stroud     Ottawa,  Canada

Christavia C-FDWS

Fairchild 51 replica

under  construction  C-FYXV

 [quote]   ---

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Hi George, Hi Jan,



BRAVO and congratulation Jan and thanks to you and Mark. This sounds really promissing and I must say that with all that mind power I am not any more worried about the future of our planes and motors.

  

Reading your mail Mark it is a pitty that nobody wanted to test your mag.  I would love to test it on my M14P with certainly the help of Jan (Jan???) to set it up.



Do you think it could be of any use???



  If yes then I would be very enthousiastic about that testing...



best regards from Paris - France (1h from NAMUR!!!)



Didier





2011/1/11 George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>

   	  Quote: 	
		  

  It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago and are waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the test stand. They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We gave it to an individual for flight test and they never installed it. We finally got it back.   

          It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a regular mag, had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a Toyota magnetic pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module and a Toyota coil is installed in the base of the magneto case. It uses the regular rotor and cap. The result is a 12 volt electronic magneto that is a drop in replacement for the M9 magneto.   

          It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could benefit from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off list and I can supply the parts to replace the cam and points.   

          We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple coils and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and the software is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to fit in the available time. It has the advantage in that it allows different timing depending on multiple variables. (RPM, temperature, fuel octane, manifold pressure etc.). It is also a step to an electronic fuel injection system.   

 

 

George Coy  

 

Motorstar NA  

714 Airport Rd.

  Swanton VT 05488

802-868-5633 off  

802-363-5782 cell

  george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)  

SKYPE george.coy

  motorstarna.com

   

 

 

   

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis

  Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

  



 

Hi all,

 

Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).  

 

The idea and concept  belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!  

 

I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also the distributor from the mag are left in place.  

 

First results are very promising. There’s a noticeable difference in RPM between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time.  

 

Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now finally a first test flight, I am rather confident.  

 

Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when installing an independent  backup alternator system.  

 

Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would probably be very marginal.

   

It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a  > 45000 volt system on the Russian solid core plug wires.  

 

One of the main goals was to find out if there’s a workable alternative for the mag coils. This has been proven.

   

BR,

 

Jan Mevis

YK50 RA2005K  

YK52 RA1453K

 

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Didier BLOUZARD

didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)

0624243672

  [quote][b]

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Hay guys and gals lets kick it up a notch. Due you think we could leave the carburetor on an M14 just turn the fuel off to it and use it as a backup and a place to mount the throttle position unit until were comfy with EFI take a bunch of lower intake tubes and put electronic fuel injectors in them and coil over plug ignition with a programmable electronic control unit? SAWEEEET

  

 Bill Wade



 Programmable ECUs  

A special category of ECUs are those which are programmable. These units do not have a fixed behavior, but can be reprogrammed by the user. 

Programmable ECUs are required where significant aftermarket modifications have been made to a vehicle's engine. Examples include adding or changing of a turbocharger, adding or changing of an intercooler, changing of the exhaust system, and conversion to run on alternative fuel. As a consequence of these changes, the old ECU may not provide appropriate control for the new configuration. In these situations, a programmable ECU can be wired in. These can be programmed/mapped with a laptop connected using a serial or USB cable, while the engine is running. 

The programmable ECU may control the amount of fuel to be injected into each cylinder. This varies depending on the engine's RPM and the position of the accelerator pedal (or the manifold air pressure). The engine tuner can adjust this by bringing up a spreadsheet-like page on the laptop where each cell represents an intersection between a specific RPM value and an accelerator pedal position (or the throttle position, as it is called). In this cell a number corresponding to the amount of fuel to be  injected is entered. This spreadsheet is often referred to as a fuel table or fuel [url=http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Map_(higher-order_function)]map[/url]. 

By modifying these values while monitoring the exhausts using a wide band lambda probe to see if the engine runs rich or lean, the tuner can find the optimal amount of fuel to inject to the engine at every different combination of RPM and throttle position. This process is often carried out at a dynamometer, giving the tuner a controlled environment to work in. An engine dynamometer gives a more precise calibration for racing applications. Tuners often utilize a chassis dynamometer for street and other high performance applications. 

Other parameters that are often mappable are:  Ignition: Defines when the spark plug should fire for a cylinder. 
Rev. limit: Defines the maximum RPM that the engine is allowed to reach. After this fuel and/or ignition is cut. Some vehicles have a "soft" cut-off before the "hard" cut-off. 
Water temperature correction: Allows for additional fuel to be added when the engine is cold (choke) or dangerously hot. 
Transient fueling: Tells the ECU to add a specific amount of fuel when throttle is applied. The term is "acceleration enrichment" 
Low fuel pressure modifier: Tells the ECU to increase the injector fire time to compensate for a loss of fuel pressure. 
Closed loop lambda: Lets the ECU monitor a permanently installed lambda probe and modify the fueling to achieve stoichiometric (ideal) combustion. On traditional petrol powered vehicles this air:fuel ratio is 14.7:1. 

Some of the more advanced race ECUs include functionality such as [url=http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Launch_control_(automotive)]launch control[/url], limiting the power of the engine in first gear to avoid burnouts. Other examples of advanced functions are:  Wastegate control: Sets up the behavior of a turbocharger's wastegate, controlling boost. 
Banked injection: Sets up the behavior of double injectors per cylinder, used to get a finer fuel injection control and atomization over a wide RPM range. 
Variable cam timing: Tells the ECU how to control variable intake and exhaust cams. 
Gear control: Tells the ECU to cut ignition during (sequential gearbox) upshifts or blip the throttle during downshifts. 

A race ECU is often equipped with a data logger recording all sensors for later analysis using special software in a PC. This can be useful to track down engine stalls, misfires or other undesired behaviors during a race by downloading the log data and looking for anomalies after the event. The data logger usually has a capacity between 0.5 and 16 megabytes. 

In order to communicate with the driver, a race ECU can often be connected to a "data stack", which is a simple dash board presenting the driver with the current RPM, speed and other basic engine data. These race stacks, which are almost always digital, talk to the ECU using one of several proprietary protocols running over RS232 or CANbus, connecting to the DLC connector (Data Link Connector) usually located on the underside of the dash, inline with the steering wheel

   From: Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 4:51:49 PM

Subject: Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition



Hi George, Hi Jan,



BRAVO and congratulation Jan and thanks to you and Mark. This sounds really promissing and I must say that with all that mind power I am not any more worried about the future of our planes and motors.



Reading your mail Mark it is a pitty that nobody wanted to test your mag.  I would love to test it on my M14P with certainly the help of Jan (Jan???) to set it up.



Do you think it could be of any use???



If yes then I would be very enthousiastic about that testing...



best regards from Paris - France (1h from  NAMUR!!!)



Didier





 2011/1/11 George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>

  	  Quote: 	
		     

It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago and are waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the test stand. They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We gave it to an individual for flight test and they never installed it. We finally got it back.  

          It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a regular mag, had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a Toyota magnetic pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module and a Toyota coil is installed in the base of the magneto case. It uses the regular rotor and cap. The result is a 12 volt electronic magneto that is a drop in replacement for the M9 magneto.  

          It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could benefit from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off list and I can supply the parts to replace the cam and points.  

          We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple coils and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and the software is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to fit in the available time. It has the advantage in that it allows different timing depending on multiple variables. (RPM, temperature, fuel octane, manifold pressure etc.). It is also a step to an electronic fuel injection system.  

  

  

George Coy 

  

Motorstar NA 

714 Airport Rd. 

Swanton VT 05488 

802-868-5633 off 

802-363-5782 cell 

george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com) 

SKYPE george.coy 

motorstarna.com 

  

  

  

    

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis

Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition



  

  

Hi all, 

  

Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new). 

  

The idea and concept  belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you! 

  

I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also the distributor from the mag are left in place. 

  

First results are very promising. Thereâ€™s a noticeable difference in RPM between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time. 

  

Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now finally a first test flight, I am rather confident. 

  

Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when installing an independent  backup alternator system. 

  

Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would probably be very marginal. 

  

It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a  > 45000 volt system on the Russian solid core plug wires. 

  

One of the main goals was to find out if thereâ€™s a workable alternative for the mag coils. This has been proven. 

  

BR, 

  

Jan Mevis 

YK50 RA2005K 

YK52 RA1453K 

  

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-- 

Didier BLOUZARD

didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)

0624243672

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         [quote][b]

gill.g(at)gpimail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Great job, thanks



Gill



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:11 pm Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Bill,  



I think George Coy indeed has something like that in mind.  And indeed there are several fuel injection projects underway as well, including one in Russia (see Richard Goode for info).  None of them are closed loop that I am aware of.  One of the key requirements for a closed loop system is a valid oxygen sensor, as you probably know.  This is hard to accomplish considering our exhaust arrangement.  However, an ECU open loop design is still very viable and would make a great project.  



I concur that what you are suggesting is a wonderful way to go and is starting to be realized on experimental (and a few certificated) engines, the most exotic of which are being used at Reno and especially in the Red Bull series.  With Red Bull funding the whole thing.... which they just put an end to.    



Seriously, anything can be done... it just takes cash.  Lots of it.  



The big difference between what you are talking about, and what Jan and I are talking about can be summarized with one (plural) symbol: $$$$$   



A very safe and very powerful ignition system, that costs a few hundred dollars and can be installed by any A&P in about a day or so is what we are talking about here.  Not to be confused with a complete engine and ignition redesign.  It also will not fail like the current coils do in the Russian mags, and offers a real improvement overall, especially to guys running M-14's in aerobatic contests, where a failed mag in flight can impact their routine.  This same project can easily be done with a CJ-6 as well using the Housai engine and mags.  



I'm just extremely happy with the success we have had so far.   Realize that I am not an M-14 expert, nor someone with the extensive background and knowledge such as a person like George Coy represents.  I'm just an old race car builder/driver, with a pretty good knowledge of electronics, specializing in RF and not ignition systems.  However, one day I just put 2 and 2 together and came up with a simple idea. I ran it up the flagpole with MSD design engineers and they concurred it should work.  Jan Mevis understood the premise and took on the job of installing and testing it... at his own expense, risking a very valuable engine in the process by the way.  We collaborated in the overall design and went through a lot of teeth gnashing along the way to come up with a SAFE system, and not just one that "works".  



So far, no one on this list (except for one French fellow   have expressed much of an interest, but that's ok.  This project is just an extension of Dennis's original idea using high quality racing plugs and wires on the M-14.  Took awhile, but eventually people realized how much improvement they would get and how cheap it was for the quality gained.  The same thing will happen here... it'll just take awhile.  I expect the really serious aerobatic guys will go with it at first, as soon as they are dead sure it is fully reliable, which is the test that comes next.  



Sadly, no one I know is really rushing into the mix for a system like you are describing.  Sure wish they were.  



Mark

--

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

The problem for Europeans is certification.Jan Mevis is flying his 50 on the 

old Russian registration,which gives a lot of freedom,but some countries 

like the UK and Italy will not allow it,and we have no "experimental" 

category within which one can try such things.

Sure you can apply for a formal modifiction,and then you have to do the same 

test procedure as Lycoming has to for a certificated engine.

You guys in the US do not know how fortunate you are [in this one area at 

least!!!].

Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

United Kingdom



Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is 

+94 779 132 160.

---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Richard,

We do appreciate that fact.just hope some Ill intending FAA Gestapo type does not pass a regulation to riun it.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 12, 2011, at 8:04 PM, "Richard.Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 The problem for Europeans is certification.Jan Mevis is flying his 50 on the old Russian registration,which gives a lot of freedom,but some countries like the UK and Italy will not allow it,and we have no "experimental" category within which one can try such things.

 Sure you can apply for a formal modifiction,and then you have to do the same test procedure as Lycoming has to for a certificated engine.

 You guys in the US do not know how fortunate you are [in this one area at least!!!].

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

 Rhodds Farm

 Lyonshall

 Hereford

 HR5 3LW

 United Kingdom

 

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

 Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129

 www.russianaeros.com

 Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.

 

 

 ---

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Hello Richard,



I took care to talk about this with the Russian inspector before installing, and I got his permission to test. They saw NO objection, since I did not change anything that could jeopardize the airworthiness of the plane. If the electronics quit, I still have the left mag to land asap. Of course the electronics depend upon the electrical installation of the aircraft. In the case of the 50, this system is not heavily loaded. But if necessary, today there are backup alternator systems that could be employed. 



Our main goal (Mark and I) was to prove the feasibility.



Indeed we do not have much freedom in Europe anymore. The results of this over-regulation (European Community, legions of administration and regulations guys and girls) are catastrophic. New ideas and concepts (and not only in aviation) are stopped even before they are tried out. Try to imagine if there would be any aviation at all, if the Wright brothers and the other pioneers would have been hindered the way we are today? 



Indeed, the people in the USA are fortunate, compared to us. Our own fault (Europe) because progress and advance does not originate from Europe anymore. Or very often, a good idea from here has to be developped elsewhere ...



Maybe indeed I will get reprimanded now for having tried out an idea without the tons of paperwork (and months of negotiation) that normally are imperative. 



But "I'll chew it thru".

All the best,



Jan



--

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:38 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Hi Jan,

I was really making the point to our friends across the water that it is so 

much easier for them to experiment.

I got the plugs accepted quite easily by EASA.but to use the excellent 

Barrett pistons requires 350 hours of formal testing on a test-bed-when we 

already have 10 aircraft flying well when fitted with them!!

Regards

Richard

Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

United Kingdom



Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

Iâ€™m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is 

+94 779 132 160.

---

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

Of course, I understood very well what you ment!



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: yak 50 with electronic ignition

You're right.  We are very lucky. 



Mark

--

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