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rv8ch
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland
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 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
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Hi,
I used the West Mountain Radio CBA to test some batteries that I had hoped to use in my aircraft. Unfortunately the PC680 batteries have been laying around for about 6 years, and had became quite discharged. I have used the Battery Tender to charge them a few times, and have re-run the load test. The results of two tests (with a recharge in between) are below, along with a test of a Panasonic LC-XD1217P (12v, 17 Ah) of a similar form factor, and with identical treatment.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B5D8Jl0C8SZbNDQ0N2FiNzItYjA0Yy00MmQ5LTk0NjUtOWVkZTMwNzlmMTU3&hl=en
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B5D8Jl0C8SZbYmUyMzdhN2ItYjBkOS00MWJkLThlNWUtODUzNjRmMWVmOWE1&hl=en
My question is do you think that I can get the Odyssey batteries back to a decent state? Below are the test results in text for those that don't want to download the above PDFs with the pretty graphs.
Panasonic2:
Description: 6 Lead Acid cells, 17.0 Ah (at) 7.50A
Started At: 16-Jan-11 2:56 PM
Discharge Rate: 7.50 A
Starting Voltage: 12.91 V
Ending Voltage: 10.50 V
Total Time (hh:mm:ss): 01:26:37
Tested Capacity: 10.878 Ah
Odyssey:
Description: 6 Lead Acid cells, 16.0 Ah (at) 7.50A
Started At: 16-Jan-11 4:34 PM
Discharge Rate: 7.50 A
Starting Voltage: 12.56 V
Ending Voltage: 10.48 V
Total Time (hh:mm:ss): 00:39:53
Tested Capacity: 5.006 Ah
Odyssey2:
Description: 6 Lead Acid cells, 16.0 Ah (at) 7.50A
Started At: 18-Jan-11 6:14 PM
Discharge Rate: 7.50 A
Starting Voltage: 12.80 V
Ending Voltage: 10.49 V
Total Time (hh:mm:ss): 00:39:37
Tested Capacity: 4.973 Ah
I really thought that the Odyssey batteries would hold a charge better than a "standard" Panasonic. Also, the fact that the Panasonic is giving me double the capacity is quite surprising. I have not yet tried my desulfator, but that's my next step. I've only tested one of my two Odyssey batteries, going to test the other "soon".
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
[quote][b]
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glastar(at)gmx.net
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
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Hello Mickey,
I would try the desulfator once as well. I had a lead acid battery from
a car where one cell seemed to be shorten. I did it leave on the
desulfator combined with a battery tender for 2 years and had to use it
for my car as that battery was to much depleted (cabin light on for 4
days with minus temp). That Battery showed full recovery for usage in my
car even that it is only 2/3 of the capacity of the original battery.
Give it a try, just a few cents of power you spend on it and let it
there for at least a month.
Werner
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
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I used the West Mountain Radio CBA to test some
batteries that I had hoped to use in my aircraft.
� Unfortunately the PC680 batteries have been
laying around for about 6 years, and had became quite discharged.
What kind of maintenance did you do on the batteries
while stored? The Battery Tender and Battery Minders
are not intended to be 'chargers' so much as 'maintainers'.
When you have 12v batteries on storage, it's a good idea
to clip them all together in parallel and have some
sort of sophisticated maintainer supporting the lot.
I use the Schumacher 1562 or a Battery Tender to
support my test batteries. Some are pushing 7 years
old with better than 80% of new capacity.
I really thought that the Odyssey batteries would
hold a charge better than a "standard" Panasonic.
� Also, the fact that the Panasonic is giving me
double the capacity is quite surprising.
Were all three stored under the same conditions?
� I have not yet tried my desulfator, but
that's my next step. � I've only tested one of my
two Odyssey batteries, going to test the other "soon".
We'll be interested to hear what you discover.
Bob . . .
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rv8ch
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:49 am Post subject: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
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Hi Bob,
All three batteries were just sitting on a shelf - not connected to anything. I didn't do any charging to them during these years, which makes me wonder if perhaps they are now "damaged". The two Odyssey batteries had very low voltages - can't recall exactly, but it was low single digits, and they could not trigger a battery contactor. The Panasonic still had about 12 volts and worked fine. Exact same treatment for all three batteries.
You mentioned that the battery tender is not meant as a charger. I also have a "dumb" charger that just dumps in either 2.5 or 5 amps - I forgot to check the voltage it puts out. Do you think that this charger would be better at recovering these batteries than the battery tender?
Thanks,
Mickey
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 23:50, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
I used the West Mountain Radio CBA to test some batteries that I had hoped to use in my aircraft. Â Unfortunately the PC680 batteries have been laying around for about 6 years, and had became quite discharged.
What kind of maintenance did you do on the batteries
while stored? The Battery Tender and Battery Minders
are not intended to be 'chargers' so much as 'maintainers'.
When you have 12v batteries on storage, it's a good idea
to clip them all together in parallel and have some
sort of sophisticated maintainer supporting the lot.
I use the Schumacher 1562 or a Battery Tender to
support my test batteries. Some are pushing 7 years
old with better than 80% of new capacity.
I really thought that the Odyssey batteries would hold a charge better than a "standard" Panasonic. Â Also, the fact that the Panasonic is giving me double the capacity is quite surprising.
Were all three stored under the same conditions?
 I have not yet tried my desulfator, but that's my next step.  I've only tested one of my two Odyssey batteries, going to test the other "soon".
We'll be interested to hear what you discover.
Bob . . .
|
--
Mickey Coggins
[quote][b]
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http://www.rv8.ch/ |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
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At 01:40 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Bob,
All three batteries were just sitting on a shelf - not connected to anything.
|
| Quote: | � I didn't do any charging to them during these
years, which makes me wonder if perhaps they are
now "damaged".� � � The two Odyssey batteries
had very low voltages - can't recall exactly,
but it was low single digits, and they could not
trigger a battery contactor.� The Panasonic
still had about 12 volts and worked
fine.� Exact same treatment for all three batteries.
|
Interesting. As you've noted, I would have expected
Hawker products to be equal to or better than
Panasonic.
| Quote: | You mentioned that the battery tender is not meant as a charger.
|
Battery Tenders WILL charge good batteries. With it's
limited output (0.8A as I recall) it might take
some time. But when the BT is INTENDED to stay
hooked up for duration of a storage interval, recharge
time is not a significant consideration.
When I returned my instrumentation batteries back
to the shelf after a job, I just let the battery
maintainer top it off . . . never ran one down
seriously that I recall but it didn't matter.
With weeks to months between tasks, the battery
maintainer had all the time in the world.
| Quote: | I also have a "dumb" charger that just dumps
in either 2.5 or 5 amps - I forgot to check the
voltage it puts out.� Do you think that this
charger would be better at recovering these batteries than the battery tender?
|
"Recovering" is a term subject to interpretation.
In many, many conversations with Skip Koss at
Concorde and the gurus at Navy Battery Labs at
Crane, IN, I've been made aware of numerous successful
recoveries (80% plus of new capacity) for batteries
that were accidently (or even deliberately abused).
There are numerous qualification specs for aircraft/military
batteries that call for total discharge and store
at elevated temperature for some period of time. Then
conduct some sort of recovery process. Usually starts
with connecting a 12v battery to a 20v source until it
starts to draw recharge current exceeding 1A or some such.
Then charge at 14.6 until current drops below 100 mA.
Then discharge and repeat up to two times. If the battery
doesn't 'recover' after the third attempt, it's scrap.
I don't recall the exact numbers but yes, SOME batteries
can be 'recovered' under SOME conditions.
YEARS of dead storage . . . it's a long shot.
Bob . . .
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jef.vervoortw(at)telenet.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
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Would that mean that that Panasonic battery is also a good choice for our RV ?
Thanks
Jef 91031 Belgium, almost there.
Van: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Mickey Coggins
Verzonden: woensdag 19 januari 2011 19:40
Aan: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests
Hi Bob,
All three batteries were just sitting on a shelf - not connected to anything. I didn't do any charging to them during these years, which makes me wonder if perhaps they are now "damaged". The two Odyssey batteries had very low voltages - can't recall exactly, but it was low single digits, and they could not trigger a battery contactor. The Panasonic still had about 12 volts and worked fine. Exact same treatment for all three batteries.
You mentioned that the battery tender is not meant as a charger. I also have a "dumb" charger that just dumps in either 2.5 or 5 amps - I forgot to check the voltage it puts out. Do you think that this charger would be better at recovering these batteries than the battery tender?
Thanks,
Mickey
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 23:50, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
I used the West Mountain Radio CBA to test some batteries that I had hoped to use in my aircraft. � Unfortunately the PC680 batteries have been laying around for about 6 years, and had became quite discharged.
What kind of maintenance did you do on the batteries
while stored? The Battery Tender and Battery Minders
are not intended to be 'chargers' so much as 'maintainers'.
When you have 12v batteries on storage, it's a good idea
to clip them all together in parallel and have some
sort of sophisticated maintainer supporting the lot.
I use the Schumacher 1562 or a Battery Tender to
support my test batteries. Some are pushing 7 years
old with better than 80% of new capacity.
I really thought that the Odyssey batteries would hold a charge better than a "standard" Panasonic. � Also, the fact that the Panasonic is giving me double the capacity is quite surprising.
Were all three stored under the same conditions?
� I have not yet tried my desulfator, but that's my next step. � I've only tested one of my two Odyssey batteries, going to test the other "soon".
We'll be interested to hear what you discover.
Bob . . .
--
Mickey Coggins | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
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At 03:17 AM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
| Quote: | Would that mean that that Panasonic battery is also a good choice for our RV ?
Thanks
Jef 91031 Belgium, almost there. |
Check out the various threads and articles
on about batteries at http://aeroelectric.com
using the search feature. Also check out the
chapter on batteries in The AeroElectric
Connection.
Over the years, I've come to understand that
there are few batteries not of good
value . . . it's a sort of get what you pay
for idea . . . pretty fundamental to an
honorable free-market economy.
We've also discovered that the selling price
for any product must include amortization
of promotional costs. This is why many products
(like alkaline cells) are often made by the
same factory to be sold under a variety of
brands but with wide range of pricing for
exactly the same product.
One is certainly justified in being skeptical
of any new kid on the block for a battery of
any brand or price. Without special knowledge
of where that battery is made, for how many
other brands and for how long deprives you
of data useful for the reduction of risk.
Having said that mouth full, understand that
batteries suitable for service in our
airplanes are more influenced by what
our design goals are. MOST airplane drivers
are 'happy' with a battery that cranked
the engine today so he could go flying.
Just like in our cars.
HOWEVER . . . if your design goals include
DEPENDING on a battery for an alternative
SOURCE of power in case of alternator
failure, it's incumbent on you to KNOW
mow much power you NEED to support your
ENDURANCE loads and then CONFIRM that
your battery is capable of that task
before you launch into the HIGHER RISK
environment.
This takes homework on your part along
with knowledge of how to craft and maintain
a failure tolerant system to your design
goals ("I want to be able to fly battery-
only for X.X hours")
You CAN do this with a Hawker, Panasonic,
Yuasa, etc. etc. Success will be based on
your own knowledge of what you expect.
Relying on your hangar mate's assertion
that "Panasonics are fine batteries for
airplanes" is not a substitute for that
knowledge.
If your forecasted dependence on a battery
is for day/vfr/pleasure flying, then
perhaps you can treat the battery like
99% of the light aircraft drivers and
virtually all car drivers treat theirs.
Run it till it gasps and dies. If your
expectations and goals that go beyond
that, you'll have to educate yourself
in the processes that go to meeting those
goals.
If the battery of interest bears a well
established branding, it's likely that
you'll pretty much get your money's worth.
Its a very competitive business. Anyone
who has been at it for 20 years or more
has probably earned their place in the market.
But if the battery is some new product
being offered by a bunch of folks who
marketed donuts and bagels in an earlier
life, then exercise due caution.
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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