Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Monowheel disk brake

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

Hi all,



My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!

Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?

Regards

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL

   





[img]cid:5F672AA3-9F28-4363-A784-25C20CADF229[/img]

P2080003a.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

170.93 KB

Viewed:

7935 Time(s)

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

Remi

that looks a bit like zinc plating, which imno would be a waste of time (& money) The plating should be hard chrome. Pad technology is not as simple as it used to be either, but I am not up to date on that.

Graham



From: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>

To: Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 8 February, 2011 21:23:08

Subject: Europa-List:  Monowheel disk brake



Hi all,



My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!

Has anyone experienced this problem? Any  solution?

Regards

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL

   





[img]cid:1.2833828303(at)web87111.mail.ird.yahoo.com[/img]

P2080003a.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

170.93 KB

Viewed:

7932 Time(s)

brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:50 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

Remi,

 

I did not have any problem when I had a mono but I have had problems on a racing car recently that meant I had to learn fast about disk brake technology.  I think your problem could be lack of bedding in of new brakes. In order to work correctly the brakes need to be applied at about 50% normal for a number of times and then allowed to cool down fully.  During this process, pad material should be deposited on to the disc to create a shiny surface that will give smooth braking action and long life.  If this process does not take place you will get tearing of the disc material/ rough surface, leading to poor braking action and short pad life.

 

The Trigear Owners Manual describes a brake bedding procedure that requires two consecutive full stop braking applications from 30 to 35knots without allowing the brakes to cool between each application. You then need to check that the conditioning process has been successful by looking for the shiny surface and also checking that the brakes will hold during a static full power run.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Brian Davies

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi

Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23

To: Europa-List Digest Server

Subject: Monowheel disk brake

 

Hi all,

 



My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!



Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?



Regards



Remi Guerner



F-PGKL



   



 



 



 



 



 



[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CBC83D.2EC42D80[/img]

image002.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

85.22 KB

Viewed:

7921 Time(s)

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:51 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

From: Brian Davies [mailto:brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk] 

Sent: 09 February 2011 09:46

To: 'europa-list(at)matronics.com'

Subject: RE: Monowheel disk brake

Remi,

I did not have any problem when I had a mono but I have had problems on a racing car recently that meant I had to learn fast about disk brake technology.  I think your problem could be lack of bedding in of new brakes. In order to work correctly the brakes need to be applied at about 50% normal for a number of times and then allowed to cool down fully.  During this process, pad material should be deposited on to the disc to create a shiny surface that will give smooth braking action and long life.  If this process does not take place you will get tearing of the disc material/ rough surface, leading to poor braking action and short pad life.

The Trigear Owners Manual describes a brake bedding procedure that requires two consecutive full stop braking applications from 30 to 35knots without allowing the brakes to cool between each application. You then need to check that the conditioning process has been successful by looking for the shiny surface and also checking that the brakes will hold during a static full power run.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Brian Davies

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi

Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23

To: Europa-List Digest Server

Subject: Monowheel disk brake

Hi all,

My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!

Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?

Regards

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CBC83D.2EC42D80[/img]

image002.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

85.22 KB

Viewed:

7921 Time(s)

brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

Remi,

 

Further to my last post, you will need to skim off the rough surface on the disc, either in a lathe or by hand with an oil stone, before doing the bedding in process.

 

Regards

 

Brian

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi

Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23

To: Europa-List Digest Server

Subject: Monowheel disk brake

 

Hi all,

 



My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!



Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?



Regards



Remi Guerner



F-PGKL



   



 



 



 



 



 



[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBC83E.FDD98650[/img]

image001.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

85.22 KB

Viewed:

7921 Time(s)

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:56 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

From: Brian Davies [mailto:brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk] 

Sent: 09 February 2011 09:52

To: 'europa-list(at)matronics.com'

Subject: RE: Monowheel disk brake

Remi,

Further to my last post, you will need to skim off the rough surface on the disc, either in a lathe or by hand with an oil stone, before doing the bedding in process.

Regards

Brian

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi

Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23

To: Europa-List Digest Server

Subject: Monowheel disk brake

Hi all,

My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!

Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?

Regards

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBC83E.FDD98650[/img]

image001.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

85.22 KB

Viewed:

7920 Time(s)

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel disk brake

Thank you Brian, this is good advice. I will try it. However I am wondering why on my car the pads and the disks last thousands times more without having to bother with conditioning! I really think there is compatibility problem between the Europa disk material and the (non asbestos) metallic lining. 

Regards

Remi

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:52 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

You are partially correct.  It is the pad material that makes some braking

systems more critical.  Racing cars and some aeroplanes seem to have this

problem.



Brian



--

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Brian,

 Thanks for your insight.  I have found out, the hard way, on a wheel  replacement, when I thought I was sure that the anodizing of the new  disk galled up the pad on the replacement wheel.  I removed the wheel,  sanded the disk with 80 grit and 220 grit using a DA sander, cleaned  (sanded) the pads and used brake cleaner to clean both disk and pads.   I retried a hard brake burn in with no more directional problems.   Result of the cleanups autopsy showed my own failure to burn in the new  brake, I only did light braking, and the anodizing and residue compromised the  pad surface... It's all about the prep, or in my case lack of  it.  

  

 I reviewed my errors and printed off the Matco tech advice in their  technical support section on brake care and techniques and now review it  religiously.

  

 Best regards,

 Bud Yerly

 [quote]   ---

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:53 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

Hi Nigel,



Very nice looking brake disk! That may be the solution. What is your  

experience with that chromed disk? How many hours on the disk? on the  

pads?

Regarding the chroming process, do you know the thickness of the  

chrome layer?

Regards

Remi

<<<<I chose to modify my standard disc to lighten it, provide better  

water

drainage and to improve the wear characteristics by having it hard

chromed (as Graham suggested in his response). I have attached a photo  

FYI.>>>>>

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake

I once had plated Cleveland discs on my Long EZ, They lasted a year or so then the plating started to flake off and that was that, pads lasted a few weeks only! The full answer is stainless steel with a special surface treatment, they were superb but I don't think the company exists any more. Aircraft Spruce sold them but that was 15 years ago

Graham

From: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>

To: Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Friday, 11 February, 2011 9:50:14

Subject: Monowheel disk brake 

--> Europa-List message posted by: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)>

Hi Nigel,

Very nice looking brake disk! That may be the solution. What is your experience with that chromed disk? How many hours on the disk? on the pads?

Regarding the chroming process, do you know the thickness of the chrome layer?

Regards

Remi

<<<<I chose to modify my standard disc to lighten it, provide better water

drainage and to improve the wear characteristics by having it hard

chromed (as Graham suggested in his response). I  --> http://forums.matronics.comhttp://ww=======================

 [quote][b]

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel disk brake

Hi Graham,

Thank you for the advice about chrome plating. From your experience, it seems chrome plating is not the solution for an increased service life.

BTW I had also my own experience on a Varieze fitted with aluminium disk with a sort of ceramic coating similar to what is used on engine cylinder walls. This was a real mess when the thick coating was locally separating from the aluminum. 

Regards

Remi

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum