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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 Posts: 284
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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Hi all,
My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
[img]cid:5F672AA3-9F28-4363-A784-25C20CADF229[/img]
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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Remi
that looks a bit like zinc plating, which imno would be a waste of time (& money) The plating should be hard chrome. Pad technology is not as simple as it used to be either, but I am not up to date on that.
Graham
From: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
To: Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 8 February, 2011 21:23:08
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel disk brake
Hi all,
My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
[img]cid:1.2833828303(at)web87111.mail.ird.yahoo.com[/img]
| - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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brian.davies(at)clara.co. Guest
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:50 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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Remi,
I did not have any problem when I had a mono but I have had problems on a racing car recently that meant I had to learn fast about disk brake technology. I think your problem could be lack of bedding in of new brakes. In order to work correctly the brakes need to be applied at about 50% normal for a number of times and then allowed to cool down fully. During this process, pad material should be deposited on to the disc to create a shiny surface that will give smooth braking action and long life. If this process does not take place you will get tearing of the disc material/ rough surface, leading to poor braking action and short pad life.
The Trigear Owners Manual describes a brake bedding procedure that requires two consecutive full stop braking applications from 30 to 35knots without allowing the brakes to cool between each application. You then need to check that the conditioning process has been successful by looking for the shiny surface and also checking that the brakes will hold during a static full power run.
I hope this helps.
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi
Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: Monowheel disk brake
Hi all,
My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CBC83D.2EC42D80[/img]
| - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Brian Davies
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 124 Location: uk
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:51 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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From: Brian Davies [mailto:brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk]
Sent: 09 February 2011 09:46
To: 'europa-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Monowheel disk brake
Remi,
I did not have any problem when I had a mono but I have had problems on a racing car recently that meant I had to learn fast about disk brake technology. I think your problem could be lack of bedding in of new brakes. In order to work correctly the brakes need to be applied at about 50% normal for a number of times and then allowed to cool down fully. During this process, pad material should be deposited on to the disc to create a shiny surface that will give smooth braking action and long life. If this process does not take place you will get tearing of the disc material/ rough surface, leading to poor braking action and short pad life.
The Trigear Owners Manual describes a brake bedding procedure that requires two consecutive full stop braking applications from 30 to 35knots without allowing the brakes to cool between each application. You then need to check that the conditioning process has been successful by looking for the shiny surface and also checking that the brakes will hold during a static full power run.
I hope this helps.
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi
Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: Monowheel disk brake
Hi all,
My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CBC83D.2EC42D80[/img]
| - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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brian.davies(at)clara.co. Guest
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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Remi,
Further to my last post, you will need to skim off the rough surface on the disc, either in a lathe or by hand with an oil stone, before doing the bedding in process.
Regards
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi
Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: Monowheel disk brake
Hi all,
My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBC83E.FDD98650[/img]
| - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Brian Davies
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 124 Location: uk
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:56 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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From: Brian Davies [mailto:brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk]
Sent: 09 February 2011 09:52
To: 'europa-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Monowheel disk brake
Remi,
Further to my last post, you will need to skim off the rough surface on the disc, either in a lathe or by hand with an oil stone, before doing the bedding in process.
Regards
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guerner Remi
Sent: 08 February 2011 21:23
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: Monowheel disk brake
Hi all,
My original brake pads lasted 635 flight hours. The second set (Cleveland 66-106) lasted only 159 hours. I also had to refill the master cylinder every 20 hours or so to compensate for the rapid pad wear. I then discovered that the surface of the disc was showing circular grooves with some embedded steel particles emerging from the surface. I decided to order a new disk from Europa (142 british pounds + VAT) . I flew with the new disk and new pads (Rapco RA66-106) for the first time yesterday. The attached picture shows the surface of the new disk after only two full stop landings with moderate braking. The aspect of the surface is very similar to the old disk one. I do not expect the new pads to last long with such a rough surface!
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solution?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBC83E.FDD98650[/img]
| - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 Posts: 284
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel disk brake |
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Thank you Brian, this is good advice. I will try it. However I am wondering why on my car the pads and the disks last thousands times more without having to bother with conditioning! I really think there is compatibility problem between the Europa disk material and the (non asbestos) metallic lining.
Regards
Remi
| - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Brian Davies
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 124 Location: uk
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:52 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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You are partially correct. It is the pad material that makes some braking
systems more critical. Racing cars and some aeroplanes seem to have this
problem.
Brian
--
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budyerly(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Brian,
Thanks for your insight. I have found out, the hard way, on a wheel replacement, when I thought I was sure that the anodizing of the new disk galled up the pad on the replacement wheel. I removed the wheel, sanded the disk with 80 grit and 220 grit using a DA sander, cleaned (sanded) the pads and used brake cleaner to clean both disk and pads. I retried a hard brake burn in with no more directional problems. Result of the cleanups autopsy showed my own failure to burn in the new brake, I only did light braking, and the anodizing and residue compromised the pad surface... It's all about the prep, or in my case lack of it.
I reviewed my errors and printed off the Matco tech advice in their technical support section on brake care and techniques and now review it religiously.
Best regards,
Bud Yerly
[quote] ---
| - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 Posts: 284
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:53 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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Hi Nigel,
Very nice looking brake disk! That may be the solution. What is your
experience with that chromed disk? How many hours on the disk? on the
pads?
Regarding the chroming process, do you know the thickness of the
chrome layer?
Regards
Remi
<<<<I chose to modify my standard disc to lighten it, provide better
water
drainage and to improve the wear characteristics by having it hard
chromed (as Graham suggested in his response). I have attached a photo
FYI.>>>>>
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte Guest
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: Monowheel disk brake |
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I once had plated Cleveland discs on my Long EZ, They lasted a year or so then the plating started to flake off and that was that, pads lasted a few weeks only! The full answer is stainless steel with a special surface treatment, they were superb but I don't think the company exists any more. Aircraft Spruce sold them but that was 15 years ago
Graham
From: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
To: Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, 11 February, 2011 9:50:14
Subject: Monowheel disk brake
--> Europa-List message posted by: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)>
Hi Nigel,
Very nice looking brake disk! That may be the solution. What is your experience with that chromed disk? How many hours on the disk? on the pads?
Regarding the chroming process, do you know the thickness of the chrome layer?
Regards
Remi
<<<<I chose to modify my standard disc to lighten it, provide better water
drainage and to improve the wear characteristics by having it hard
chromed (as Graham suggested in his response). I --> http://forums.matronics.comhttp://ww=======================
[quote][b]
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 Posts: 284
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel disk brake |
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Hi Graham,
Thank you for the advice about chrome plating. From your experience, it seems chrome plating is not the solution for an increased service life.
BTW I had also my own experience on a Varieze fitted with aluminium disk with a sort of ceramic coating similar to what is used on engine cylinder walls. This was a real mess when the thick coating was locally separating from the aluminum.
Regards
Remi
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