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Safety and helmets

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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: Safety and helmets

Probably opening a can of worms but anyway here goes.  



I read in the most recent AOPA report it mentions the FAA study of 647

accidents of which 133 were fatal in Alaska between 2004 and 2009.



The FAA mentions 20 of the 133 could have been prevented by shoulder

harnesses - not particular surprise there.



38 of the 133 could have been prevent by inflatable restraints...this was a

new one for me.  Anyone else know anything about this?



33 of the 133 could have been prevents by the wearing of helmets - slightly

surprised but at the same time it seems logical.



12 of the 133 could have been saved by ELT - again not particularly

surprising in Alaska.



I thought the inflatable restraints and the helmets point were quite

interesting.  Does anyone wear a helmet and if so what type?  Does anyone

know anything about inflatable restraints?



Will

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: Safety and helmets

Will, Probably 70 of them could have been prevented by eliminating pilot 

error! The military wear helmets and at least historically their accident 

rates I believe have been higher than civil ones. I wouldn't want to make a 

thesis of that, but I do believe there have been serious research findings 

that show that in recreational pursuits, risk taking by the people involved 

tends to increase until the perceived level of risk reaches the level the 

individual enjoys - which suggests that if helmets are worn and the 

individual feels protected his level of risk taking might increase too, and 

the number of pilot error crashes will increase!

           Quite apart from that I don't fancy one, nor yet a parachute!

Happy landings, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

---

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: Safety and helmets

William,



No helmet or parachute when flying the Europa.  But I do wear both helmet and parachute when flying the Little Toot Sport Biplane as I may get the dirty side up on occasion.



My helmet is the typical white bone dome with drop down sun visor and integral head set & mic.  Don't see that it's of great necessity in the Europa, but it wouldn't hurt anything to wear it if it makes you feel safer.  Besides, if I wore it in the Europa, my wife would have to have one as well.  Come to think about it, she'd be cute in helmet and flight suit.  May have to think about that.



For information on the airbags just do a Google search on "general aviation airbags" and there's plenty of info out there.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232

http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046

Europa Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117



On Feb 23, 2011, at 14:10, William Daniell wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Probably opening a can of worms but anyway here goes.  

 

 I read in the most recent AOPA report it mentions the FAA study of 647

 accidents of which 133 were fatal in Alaska between 2004 and 2009.

 

 The FAA mentions 20 of the 133 could have been prevented by shoulder

 harnesses - not particular surprise there.

 

 38 of the 133 could have been prevent by inflatable restraints...this was a

 new one for me.  Anyone else know anything about this?

 

 33 of the 133 could have been prevents by the wearing of helmets - slightly

 surprised but at the same time it seems logical.

 

 12 of the 133 could have been saved by ELT - again not particularly

 surprising in Alaska.

 

 I thought the inflatable restraints and the helmets point were quite

 interesting.  Does anyone wear a helmet and if so what type?  Does anyone

 know anything about inflatable restraints?

 

 Will

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:48 am Post subject: Re: Safety and helmets

Inflatable restraints are the air-bags of the aircraft world.  We conducted a lot of R&D in the 90's using car technology (FMVSS, NCAP etc test data) we then set up some simulations using nifty finite element codes.  The result from this work (and the work of others) is a commercially available inflatable air-bag system used in Cessnas and other products.  Unlike most cars the air-bags are fitted within the seat belts themselves (this makes periodic inspection/replacement easier and also makes them potentially retro-fitable).  The positioning of accelerometers and sensors is still subject to optimisation within a particular aircraft - that is why qualification has to be done on a type rating basis.



For the Europa pilot the correlation of the 4 point harness and helicopter seating and restraint systems is more relevant.  The approved systems for Cessna etc are all 3 point (car-type) restraints. Four-point systems have inherent advantages in terms of overall levels of safety (read that as occupant protection).  



In a typical nose down, high rate vertical 'arrival' the major concern with Europas (and all other VLA/LSA) is the high levels of intrusion into the occupant space.  Clarification - intrusion by airframe parts and/or powerplant/systems. Air-bag restraints and similar systems would not necessarily help with reduction in overall levels of occupant injury.



In summary, airbag restraints form an effective and desirable means of potentially limiting occupant injury during typical GA type arrivals.  Especially so if integrated properly.  However, of more relevance to Europa (read VLA/LSA) is the requirement to have a high level of crashworthiness in the primary structure.  Typically this will require a  optimally deformable seat base, 4 or 5 point restraint system (to control occupant kinematics), roll-over protection.



Tomorrow's GA designs will have more focus on these key safety issues.  They will have adaptive ainflatable restraints (possibly mandated). This is especially the case as electric powerplants and energy storage systems (batteries to you and me) have high local inertias/mass and require effective restraint or controlled kinematics during 'arrivals'.



Sorry to bore anyone with this - hopefully this answers the original question.



Happy landings.

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:45 am Post subject: Safety and helmets

If you are looking for a very thin lightweight helmet, perhaps a surfing

Helmet, they are about 10mm thick and very light



--

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: Safety and helmets

Thanks to all.  "Intrusion" I not the cockpit does not sound nice.



AS always I am educated...constantly amazed by the wealth of knowledge

available in the group.



When I started Skiing XX years ago (state secret) nobody wore helmets in

fact it would have been considered weird.  Now most people, at least in

North America, even those who don't go fast or who used to go fast but don't

any more, wear them.



Will

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: Safety and helmets

Sorry that was gibberish



I meant to say - obviously - "intrusion into the cockpit does not sound

nice"



--

fraser(at)dalgowan.freese
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: Safety and helmets

I routinely wear a Mk10 " bone dome" as issued by the RAF, etc.  It is quite

wide so I had the bulged canopies fitted to allow for this.  I tried a

Europa cockpit that had the standard canopy for size some years ago and it

was too tight a fit. (That was an Alpha helmet which is slightly smaller

than a Mk10.)  I am 5 feet 10inches tall, not sure of sitting height.

I have no problem wearing it but greater reassurance re safety.  A "high

top" version would probably not have a problem either.

I hope this opinion might help.

On a slight variation to this theme, I always wear a seat type parachute

(and bone dome) in the Chipmunk and Fox Moth but have not yet tried slim

back packs in the Europa (after removing the seat cushions).  I wonder if

anyone wears a parachute in a Europa?  Possibly for test flying.



Ken Fraser (G-IVET)



---

josok-e

Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Ivalo Finland

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: Safety and helmets

 	  Quote: 	
		   In a typical nose down, high rate vertical 'arrival' the major concern with Europas (and all other VLA/LSA) is the high levels of intrusion into the occupant space.  Clarification - intrusion by airframe parts and/or powerplant/systems. Air-bag restraints and similar systems would not necessarily help with reduction in overall levels of occupant injury.



Not so obvious maybe is that in case of the Europa the floor just in 
	


front of the seats will crack, the nose will pivot around the tunnel and 

the potruding edge of the instrument panel will hit the face(s).

My money would go to remove that lip, and replace it with some padding, 

and or reinforce the floor in front of the seats. Don't ask me how i 

know this 



Regards,



Jos

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: Safety and helmets

You're quite right Jos, but don't ask me either!

Graham

From: josok-e <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, 25 February, 2011 13:00:01

Subject: Re: Re: Safety and helmets

--> Europa-List message posted by: josok-e <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi (josok-e(at)ukolo.fi)>

 	  Quote: 	
		   In a typical nose down, high  rate vertical 'arrival' the major concern with Europas (and all other VLA/LSA) is the high levels of intrusion into the occupant space.  Clarification - intrusion by airframe parts and/or powerplant/systems. Air-bag restraints and similar systems would not necessarily help with reduction in overall levels of occupant injury.

Not so obvious maybe is that in case of the Europa the floor just in front of the seats will crack, the nose will pivot around the tunnel and the potruding edge of the instrument panel will hit the face(s).

My money would go to remove that lip, and replace it with some padding, and or reinforce the floor in front of the seats. Don't ask me how i know this 

Regards,

Jos

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Li> http://forum             - List Contribution Web Site - [quote][b]

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