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weight, resale

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garyk2(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: weight, resale



 	  Quote: 	
		   Im considering replacing my Stratus EA81 with a continental 80hp during

the

rebuild. Once of my main concerns will be weight. Can anyone recall what

their engine/accesories weight was as they installed?

- mine was 185 lbs as advertised w/o muffler, rad, etc. i'm sure there's a 	


wide varience between accessory weights but to compare to a cont (not

counting prop, engine mount, gascolator/fuel lines, battery, etc) i'd guess

210 -220 lbs? muffler - 5lbs, rad - 5lbs, coolant - 5lbs, plus 185 = 200.

i have lot's of exact weights for items but never added everything up.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Has anybody seen used Stratus engines sell - what did they sell for, im

wondering if the sale price would cover a mid time continental.

- i've only seen one for sale for about $5K but not sure if it was sold. it 	


was the vision aircraft company http://www.visionaircraft.com/, maybe you

can find out from them if they sold it.

- just curious - why switch? bad luck with the Stratus?

gary

rueffy(at)jetthrust.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: weight, resale



I'm still undecided on a definate switch. I have been happy with the Stratus.

I know this particualar engine had a failure and forced landing (float plane on

water - no sweat) because only one ignition coil was installed and something in

there failed. I dont exactly know the full story but by the time I bought it

had 2 coils. Since I've had it its been fine. Im thinking about a switch for

a couple of reasons. I'm leaving the floats and going to wheels so I dont need

rediculous power like I wanted on the floats (it was only a 750lb plane empty -

you should have seen the looks when I blasted off the water and climbed at

1000ft/min with a full load of people/fuel). Im actually concerned the 100hp

is too much for an airframe which Fisher has only rated for 80hp and most

people go with 60hp I think. Plus the airframe wasn't excatly built to precise

fisher specs...things were changed and I dont want to be the dunce to find out

100hp is too much on a full power takeoff. Having the HP and using it are two

different things I know.

Im also considering a switch for peice of mind. I know the history of cont/lyc

is not as stellar as public opinion thinks, but I seem to have no concerns

about checking the oil and jumping and blasting off. Maybe it was the fact I

learnt on lyc/cont engines. However with the soob I am paranoid and before

every flight I remove top cowl, do a full engine inspection and go over

everything. It seems to take away from the joy somehow.

Another reason I am thinking of a switch, and im sorry to say this, is that im

not totally comfortable with Mykal as the new owner. He has been helpful to

me, shipped me things, answered prompty which I cant fault. But I get the

feeling he is in it purely and soley to manufacture and sell. The drive and the

love that Reiner had for the product doesn't seem to be there with Mykal. I

wish him the best, but thats my distant observation. I've heard several

second-hand stories of Mykals "it should be alright" approach to constant speed

prop and other questions. I think the manufacturer should be at the forefront

of their engines testing, not the customers. When the testbed C150 was put up

for sale it pretty much reinforced my thoughts above.

Anyway, perhaps this will start some good discussions. Lets talk about why and

why I should not change this engine over. One other thing while I think of it

- the soob installation is pretty cluttered firewall forward. I saw a cont

installation locally that I would copy - its beautifully clean firewall

forward, just looks so sweet. Nothing but frame and engine basically with a

bit of ducting.

Brett

Quoting Gary K <garyk2(at)cox.net>:

d3dw(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: weight, resale



When I first read your question, I was concerned that you wouldn't be happy with that much reduction in performance going from 100+ to 80 hp. Get ready for a little let down if that happens. I, too, remember the days of just checking the oil, walking around with a quick preflight, and then going. But like you, now I open the cowl each time and look her over really good...the mounts, the belt reduction system...etc. I like the simplicity of the lyc/cont. I never have to add oil, though , like on my old continental. But I have grown to like the quiet, smooth and efficient, inexpensive operation of the Subaru. At nearly 400 hours, I trust it more now. It has definitely been inexpensive to operate and work on.

Ditto on the perception you have of Mikel. That has been a big disappointment to me. He bought it as a business, not as a pilot. He is not familiar with aviation or really that interested it seems. Reiner had a good business strategy...build it, have fun, sell it and then move to Florida and disappear.

I won't switch, but I would probably use a different engine if I build another plane. don walker

larrymc(at)qconline.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: weight, resale



Brett,

On these issues, I totally empathize with you. The Subaru is not the

old familiar Continental and no one

sets out to install one of these without having been sweated out,

learning about ignition, fuel mixtures, proper

adjustment of carburetor linkages, belt adjustment, cooling, hoses and

radiators. A lot to expect of a person just wanting to

fly. I went thru all of these and the Subaru engine check has only

recently become routine without anxiety.

On past Continentals I've flown, I only found oil leaks, muffler leaks,

fuel leaks, fouled plugs, loose plugs, dead batteries

a mag that would become intermittent and a broken tach cable. Also found

a bird nest once. I never felt stressed going

cross country with the sound of the Continental penetrating my headset,

tiring my eardrums the whole way. That was the

way it was supposed to be. The parts search was no worse, but it was

lots more expensive to replace a cylinder or find

a replacement exhaust muffler. But that's what was expected.

Mykal has lost some control of his configuration, but the engine is not

his mfr and the accessories that are special

to the Stratus are not complicated by themselves. The Bing carbs are

great performers, pricey, but dependable.

The belt drive is maintainable without Stratus help. After resolving and

troubleshooting all the mechanicals, I'm

only a year later, getting comfortable with the extreme reliability of

the engine. The comfort is in realizing I'm

capable of repairing the few things most likely to go wrong. I like the

sound of this water cooled engine. I'm

able to tolerate its smooth humm for hours. For these reasons, I just

don't see making a change from the Subaru

in the future. It would have to be water cooled and be able to burn

87-octane or 100LL without compromise.

Larry McFarland - 601HDS

rueffy(at)jetthrust.com wrote:

Im also considering a switch for peice of mind. I know the history of cont/lyc

is not as stellar as public opinion thinks, but I seem to have no concerns

about checking the oil and jumping and blasting off. Maybe it was the fact I

learnt on lyc/cont engines. However with the soob I am paranoid and before

every flight I remove top cowl, do a full engine inspection and go over

everything. It seems to take away from the joy somehow.

Anyway, perhaps this will start some good discussions. Lets talk about why and

why I should not change this engine over. One other thing while I think of it

- the soob installation is pretty cluttered firewall forward. I saw a cont

installation locally that I would copy - its beautifully clean firewall

forward, just looks so sweet. Nothing but frame and engine basically with a

bit of ducting.

Brett

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: weight, resale



Hello Brett,

My two cents is don't change the engine. There are a couple of weak

points you should look into but they are way less hassle, cost and

airplane downtime that an engine swap.

The Stratus set up is a very reliable installation provided you do three

things.

1) Take the heads off and send them to ram Performance for his stepped

valve guide installation. This was (IS) the number 1 reliability concern

with the motor.

2) Check that you not only have two coils but also two coil pickup

sysytems. This should be the original Subaru unit under the distributor

cap and a second one run off of the flywheel and is on the left side of

the engine just below the starter I think? The Subaru chip is feeble and

you should replace this regardless with a NAPA TP 45 ignition chip,

wired into the pickup coil...This makes a bullet proof installation. The

Startus secondary systems has a fairly high failure rate as well and I

and a few others have built systems using 2 TP 45 modules to replace

both of these setups.

3) The RH upper engine mount can crack...Easy to weld up a reinforcing

plate however.

I simply don't buy the "My airframe is not rated to take the power"

argument...I have a friend with a so called 300HP gLassair with a 700HP

turbine on it....You should see that thing GO!...Anyway...for 20 extra

HP its really a non issue unless maybe you are going to run around at

full power....But I bet the extra 5mph but 30% extra fuel will be a

natural limiter. You can then save the power for spectacular take offs

and high altitude cruise.....I mean like 10,000 feet or so.

Now the engine weight is the killer...the shock of landing with a really

heavy engine upfront is way more injurous to the airframe than the extra

power would be. If your engine is not much heavier than the design

called for I really wouldn't worry about it.

Provided the re-drive is in good shape (I would change the bearings

rather than dismanlte/inspect/relubricate at the 300 hour

intervals...They are cheap from a bearing supplier) i.e the teeth are

not worn I think you have a good set up.

Frank

Zodaic HDS Stratus (with mods) 387 hours

RV7A finishing with Lyc IO360

rueffy(at)jetthrust.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: weight, resale



There has been some excellent discussion. Thank you all for your opinions which

have largely been based on fact or expereince rather than "I heard" or hearsay

or "my friend" To continue the discussion.

Frank. I agree a great move is to send the heads to Ram. However I think this

is totally unacceptable that you should have to take a package that costs

something like $7000 new and as soon as you unpack it take heads off and spend

more getting things redone. This issue should be dealt with my the prodcucer

not the customer. Goes back to what I was saying about the pro's/con's of

Reiner Vs Mykal running the business. Same goes for the cracked engine mount.

This has happened enough times that I expect Stratus, not the customer to be

dealing with this.

Regarding Engine Weight. I am actually hoping to reduce wieght with a C80. If

the C80 will be overall heavier, it will probably lean me back towards keeping

the soob. Plus I dont think I will be loosing the full 20 HP from the EA81 to

the C80. Im pretty sure after 250hrs of running im not getting the full 100Hp

due to a variety of reasons, slight mistune, carbs need a service etc. Plus I

know Im not getting a full 100hp because I only achieve 5200rpm on takeoff, not

the 5500rpm required for 100hp. So it may not be as drastic as a full 20hp

drop. One thing I will miss if I change is the ability to ground adjust the

prop.

Really interesting to hear other people have the same routine I do...cowl off,

check everything, hoses, cables, engine mount, redrive etc etc. It can be

tedious and I often wonder what my passenger thinks.

Cheerio. This decision is a long way from being made. I have lots of time to

think about things.

Brett

Quoting "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>:

<frank.hinde(at)hp.com>

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: weight, resale



Hmmm...Not quite, My engine was an original Reiner and it dropped guides

as well. Every so called "solution" from Mykal has either failed (twice)

or was unnaceptable...Believe me I was more than angry about this

situation.

However now I have gone thru this learning curve I have hopefully sent a

number of builders to Ram to solve the problem before it starts.

Bottom line, now we know how, the Stratus is a Very reliable package.

The carbs are simple to rebuild and ought to be done alongside a jetting

check when you get your heads back.

Notice I'm putting a Lycoming in the RV.......But I think your closer

to a reliable setup going with what you've got rather than starting

over.

Frank

d3dw(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: weight, resale



Really interesting to hear other people have the same routine I do...cowl off,

check everything, hoses, cables, engine mount, redrive etc etc. It can be

tedious and I often wonder what my passenger thinks.

I'll tell you what they think. I've taken over ninety passengers now, have gotten a bit of feedback, and they really appreciate seeing you look closely at your airplane before you take off. However, I have taken a bit of flack from fellow pilot friends who talk about how many times that dang cowl has been removed. don walker do not archive

bryanmmartin(at)comcast.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: weight, resale



As far as the cracked engine mounts are concerned, when the engine mount on

my engine cracked I contacted Mykal and he told me to send it to him and he

would repair or replace it. I sent my cracked mount to him and a week later

I received a new, much beefier mount at no charge. The only cost to me was

the $3.95 express mail postage and about a half hour of my time swapping out

the mount.

--

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.

on 1/9/06 2:51 PM, rueffy(at)jetthrust.com at rueffy(at)jetthrust.com wrote:

rueffy(at)jetthrust.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: weight, resale



Interesting. I cracked an alternator bracket which is a common flaw like the

engine mount. I politely asked Mykal if he was willing to assist hoping he

would offer a free replacement like he did for your engine mount. He didn't

appear willing to offer it for just shipping, so I asked directly if he would

replace it since mulitple failures have been recorded amongst various users.

He wouldn't so I paid. I'm not sure why he would replace your engine mount and

not my alternator bracket?

Cheerio all

Brett

Quoting Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>:

bryanmmartin(at)comcast.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: weight, resale



Maybe it was because I only had 120 hours on the plane at the time of

failure or maybe because the engine mount is a more critical item. I don't

know.

--

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.

on 1/9/06 5:53 PM, rueffy(at)jetthrust.com at rueffy(at)jetthrust.com wrote:

garyk2(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: weight, resale



i do the cowl off routine too. doesn't take too much time and i feel better

even though it's been starting and running perfectly for 120 hrs. i'm

planning on making an easy fold-up (car hood) cowling with piano hinge.

i am disappointed in myself for missing two things recently. i tug on all

my cables (gently) every flight but missed a loose ground strap because i

have two tie-wrapped together. the good one was holding the loose one in

place (store bought from reputable electric place). when i went to start

it, it turned a blade then the lights went out. popped the cowling looking

at power stuff and when i looked closer, i pulled the braided strap right

out of the terminal on the firewall ground block. i think my redundant

battery and ignition would have kept it running but i need to check that or

make redundant ground straps. anyway, after re-crimping i started it and my

aux ig didn't work. found a blown fuse in my aux fuse panel. during my

troubleshooting i noticed the aux ig bracket was cracked. this really

disappointed me because that's a known problem that i check every flight. i

grab the secondary ignition box near the flywheel and wiggle it. always

tight, and still was but i saw a crack. so, my normal wiggle and look

wasn't good enough, it took a real close look at that bracket to see it. it

was broke clear through from one of those sharp inside corners, just like i

was looking for, but the crack was so microscopic that i couldn't see it

during normal preflight. so, making new bracket now but safety wired it and

flew for an hour in the pattern to make sure everything was fine.

i still love that engine. got a prop balancer and it's so smooth and has

very nice power for my pelican. yes, disappointed in mykal with the heads -

he offered to rework them at his cost after promising that they had clips

(they didn't) for $350 but i sent to RAM for $500. lucky i checked and glad

i sent them out. i would still buy another because they are a great little

engine and good bang for the buck, with lowest operating and maint cost

there is. although i would like a gear drive so i can get an adjustable

prop. still waiting for autoflight's new engine to see how that works out.

i need the time to save up anyway.

as far as HP, when i asked my factory, he said it's not HP it's weight.

thrust is maybe 450 lbs pulling out on the firewall but if plane is designed

for let's say 4 g's, that's 250 lbs of engine weight times 4 which is 1000

lbs of down force on the firewall. if it held up an floats, it should be

good on wheels i would guess. factory always tells me how rough floats are

on a plane.

Gary Krysztopik

Pelican PL N522GK

Stratus subaru EA-81, 120 hrs

Newport, RI

http://www.prism.net/user/flyink/

rueffy(at)jetthrust.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: weight, resale



Maybe your right about engine mount being critical. but then again so is the

alternor I would think? Id have to think what that alternator would do if the

mounting broke completely!! I only had 200hrs at the time.

Brett

Quoting Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>:

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: weight, resale



Just to be complete with information here....The latest valve guide

failure from Mykals shop had the circlips installed..He "rebuilt" the

heads again and they had circlips they had also been knurled on the

outside (a common auto shop botch) and glued in with locktite.

So there are examples of the circlipped guides failing as well.

I'm so glad I met on Carr at Ram Performance.

Frank

i still love that engine. got a prop balancer and it's so smooth and

has very nice power for my pelican. yes, disappointed in mykal with the

heads - he offered to rework them at his cost after promising that they

had clips (they didn't) for $350 but i sent to RAM for $500. lucky i

checked and glad i sent them out.

bryanmmartin(at)comcast.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: weight, resale



If the alternator mounting fails, the worst case scenario is that the

alternator falls off causing a total electrical failure requiring an

emergency landing. In this airplane, you have a very good chance of making a

successful emergency landing and walking away unharmed.

If the engine mount fails, the worst case scenario it that the increased

stresses on the other mounts cause them to also fail and the engine falls

off. If the engine falls off, there is no hope of maintaining control of the

aircraft. If you don't have a parachute, you will probably die in the

resulting crash. Granted, this is a low probability event but the

consequences are so severe I would give the cracked engine mount a higher

priority.

--

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.

on 1/9/06 8:57 PM, rueffy(at)jetthrust.com at rueffy(at)jetthrust.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

- The Matronics Stratus-List Email Forum -
 
Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: weight, resale



Not quite Bryan...You can fly with no generator because you have the

battery...A failed mount means potentially a thrown belt which means no

water pump....Now that IS an emergency.

You could possbly wrap the pulley up with the belt...i prefer not to

think about that..

Frank

Do not archive

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: weight, resale



True, but if the alternator falls off and the alternator cable shorts out

and you have no way to cut the alternator out of the system and you don't

have a backup ignition system with an independent power source, you will

suddenly find yourself flying a glider.

But, you're right, a loss of coolant flow is much more likely in this case.

But a loss of coolant will not immediately cause a complete loss of engine

power. If you recognize the problem, you can pull back the power to reduce

heat buildup and glide to the nearest suitable landing site and probably

still have power available for the landing. With no engine power at all,

your options are much more limited, but even a controlled crash into the

tree tops is likely to be survivable in the Zodiac. Having the engine fall

off is not likely to result in a survivable situation. It tends to play

havoc with the center of gravity.

on 1/11/06 3:06 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at frank.hinde(at)hp.com

wrote:

[quote]

<frank.hinde(at)hp.com>

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: weight, resale



Ahh yes but of course we do have two ignition systems that have two

batteries that have a diode in between to completely isolate them don't

we?..

See Frank's archived rantings on the subject.

In that case the alternator can short to ground and burst into flames

and the motor won't stop...In theory.

Frank

rueffy(at)jetthrust.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: weight, resale



I can vouch for what the factory says about floats being hard on plane. I have

landed a few times on a small swell I didn't see. I swear something was going

to break off either the plane or me - the forces would far outweight anything

you could do to the plane in the air and would be much more violent than any

turbulence you would ever get.

I found an interesting site about engine weights. It listed the EA81 at 205Lbs

(stratus says 200Lbs). Obviously with Rad, fluid, accesories it would be much

more than that. Same site listed the C80 at 207Lbs although it has

comparitively little to add. Im assuming thats stock and a lightweight starter

and alternator would drop that weight. Interestingly I found the C90 was

exactly the same weight at 207Lbs for an extra 10hp. I also found the Lyc

O-200A was only 165Lbs!!! for 100hp. All food for thought regarding my

interest in swaping the soob for something else.

Cheerio

Brett

P.S. Set of Murphy 1500 straight floats for sale $5900US with rigging.

Quoting Gary K <garyk2(at)cox.net>:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

i do the cowl off routine too. doesn't take too much time and i feel better

even though it's been starting and running perfectly for 120 hrs. i'm

planning on making an easy fold-up (car hood) cowling with piano hinge.

i am disappointed in myself for missing two things recently. i tug on all

my cables (gently) every flight but missed a loose ground strap because i

have two tie-wrapped together. the good one was holding the loose one in

place (store bought from reputable electric place). when i went to start

it, it turned a blade then the lights went out. popped the cowling looking

at power stuff and when i looked closer, i pulled the braided strap right

out of the terminal on the firewall ground block. i think my redundant

battery and ignition would have kept it running but i need to check that or

make redundant ground straps. anyway, after re-crimping i started it and my

aux ig didn't work. found a blown fuse in my aux fuse panel. during my

troubleshooting i noticed the aux ig bracket was cracked. this really

disappointed me because that's a known problem that i check every flight. i

grab the secondary ignition box near the flywheel and wiggle it. always

tight, and still was but i saw a crack. so, my normal wiggle and look

wasn't good enough, it took a real close look at that bracket to see it. it

was broke clear through from one of those sharp inside corners, just like i

was looking for, but the crack was so microscopic that i couldn't see it

during normal preflight. so, making new bracket now but safety wired it and

flew for an hour in the pattern to make sure everything was fine.

i still love that engine. got a prop balancer and it's so smooth and has

very nice power for my pelican. yes, disappointed in mykal with the heads -

he offered to rework them at his cost after promising that they had clips

(they didn't) for $350 but i sent to RAM for $500. lucky i checked and glad

i sent them out. i would still buy another because they are a great little

engine and good bang for the buck, with lowest operating and maint cost

there is. although i would like a gear drive so i can get an adjustable

prop. still waiting for autoflight's new engine to see how that works out.

i need the time to save up anyway.

as far as HP, when i asked my factory, he said it's not HP it's weight.

thrust is maybe 450 lbs pulling out on the firewall but if plane is designed

for let's say 4 g's, that's 250 lbs of engine weight times 4 which is 1000

lbs of down force on the firewall. if it held up an floats, it should be

good on wheels i would guess. factory always tells me how rough floats are

on a plane.

Gary Krysztopik

Pelican PL N522GK

Stratus subaru EA-81, 120 hrs

Newport, RI

http://www.prism.net/user/flyink/

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