 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25781
Location: Livermore CA USA
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:59 am Post subject: PMag |
 |
|
I was browsing the P-Mag web site this week. They look pretty cool, but the web site really makes no mention of whether there's any real performance/economy benefit to them. Does anyone have any real world experience along these lines?
I've got two standard Slick mags on my IO-390. If I dumped $2200 on a pair of P-Mags, would I really notice any difference? The IO-390 already starts and runs great. More power and better economy are always welcome, though...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 150+ Hours TTSN - Paint Job Is All That's Left To Do...
At 10:36 AM 3/9/2011 Wednesday, you wrote:
[quote]Do they even still make the E-mag, the non self powered version?
I wonder what the performance differences are between E/P-Mags and the competing LSE- Systems in terms of additional power output as well as fuel savings?
I wonder if anyone has ever run a single LSE in conjunction with not a Magneto, but rather an E/P-Mag for two truly redundant electronic ignitions?
Hmm, I wonder how they would work together, i.e. if both competing EI systems would be mixed on one engine??? Hmm...?
Konrad
On Mar 9, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
>I think the early problems are behind them. I have one on my 8A based on some recommendations of RV pilots I trust that have had no issues in years of use. I plan to place on eon my -10 when they finally release the 6 cylinder version.
>Like most systems I prefer diversity so I would never run two PMags but I would never run two Light speed either.
>
>
>Robin
>
>
>From: <mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com>owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:<mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com>owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of <mailto:HCRV6(at)comcast.net>HCRV6(at)comcast.net
>Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 AM
>To: <mailto:rv6-list(at)matronics.com>rv6-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Anyone here?
>
>
>HI Konrad,
>
>Well, the evidence seems to be accumulating that they have. More and more of them are in use in RV's in my area, KLVK, and so far it looks like they may have worked through those early problems. I remain somewhat cautious but thinking about starting with one and see how it goes.
>
>Harry Crosby
>RV-6 N16CX, 805 hours
>
>---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:45 am Post subject: PMag |
|
|
Matt. If it ain't broke ......
$2200 will buy a couple tanks of avgas ....
Linn
On 3/9/2011 1:54 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
[quote]
I was browsing the P-Mag web site this week. They look pretty cool, but the web site really makes no mention of whether there's any real performance/economy benefit to them. Does anyone have any real world experience along these lines?
I've got two standard Slick mags on my IO-390. If I dumped $2200 on a pair of P-Mags, would I really notice any difference? The IO-390 already starts and runs great. More power and better economy are always welcome, though...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 150+ Hours TTSN - Paint Job Is All That's Left To Do...
At 10:36 AM 3/9/2011 Wednesday, you wrote:
> Do they even still make the E-mag, the non self powered version?
>
> I wonder what the performance differences are between E/P-Mags and the competing LSE- Systems in terms of additional power output as well as fuel savings?
>
> I wonder if anyone has ever run a single LSE in conjunction with not a Magneto, but rather an E/P-Mag for two truly redundant electronic ignitions?
>
> Hmm, I wonder how they would work together, i.e. if both competing EI systems would be mixed on one engine??? Hmm...?
>
> Konrad
> On Mar 9, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
>> I think the early problems are behind them. I have one on my 8A based on some recommendations of RV pilots I trust that have had no issues in years of use. I plan to place on eon my -10 when they finally release the 6 cylinder version.
>> Like most systems I prefer diversity so I would never run two PMags but I would never run two Light speed either.
>>
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>> From:<mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com>owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:<mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com>owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of<mailto:HCRV6(at)comcast.net>HCRV6(at)comcast.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 AM
>> To:<mailto:rv6-list(at)matronics.com>rv6-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV6-List: Anyone here?
>>
>>
>> HI Konrad,
>>
>> Well, the evidence seems to be accumulating that they have. More and more of them are in use in RV's in my area, KLVK, and so far it looks like they may have worked through those early problems. I remain somewhat cautious but thinking about starting with one and see how it goes.
>>
>> Harry Crosby
>> RV-6 N16CX, 805 hours
>>
>> ---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ed Anderson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: PMag |
|
|
Matt, In addition to many other nice features and factors, one of the
"features" of the Pmag is that the ignition parameters can be changed by the
user fairly easily.
That is - such parameters as your maximum rpm limit, maximum ignition
advance permitted, the aggressiveness of your advance curve, etc, can be
changed. The Pmags come with two pre-set curves and "A" and a "B" curve,
with the "B" curve being a bit more aggressive (by about 5 deg) than the
stock Lycoming ignition advance.
For most folk this is sufficient, but what some may not realize is that
you can set up your own ignition configurations for your Pmags.
For those with forced induction (turbocharger), the Pmag can be set up to
use an even less aggressive advance curve than the stock Lycoming ignition
set up.
another example, if you fly with high compression pistons, it might be nice
to have an ignition configuration that would retard ignition timing - if you
ever had to use Mogas or low octane fuel. This would enable you to fly home
without danger of damaging your engine.
Another possibility is for those who like to fly at 17,500 MSL and would
benefit from more ignition advance to gain better fuel economy - could set
up a configuration with great ignition advance to meet those conditions.
And for those individuals who perhaps like the pylon pattern, a "Race"
ignition configuration might be set up, etc.
The other thing that may be worth considering is the TBO for the Pmags - the
last time I checked, I believe at 1400 hours the Emag folks wanted you to
return the unit for a check up. So for some, this benefit may be worth the
cost over time.
Ed
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.eicommander.com
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 1:54 PM
To: <rv6-list(at)matronics.com>; <rv8-list(at)matronics.com>;
<rv-list(at)matronics.com>; <rv7-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: PMag
[quote]
I was browsing the P-Mag web site this week. They look pretty cool, but
the web site really makes no mention of whether there's any real
performance/economy benefit to them. Does anyone have any real world
experience along these lines?
I've got two standard Slick mags on my IO-390. If I dumped $2200 on a
pair of P-Mags, would I really notice any difference? The IO-390 already
starts and runs great. More power and better economy are always welcome,
though...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 150+ Hours TTSN - Paint Job Is All That's Left To Do...
At 10:36 AM 3/9/2011 Wednesday, you wrote:
>Do they even still make the E-mag, the non self powered version?
>
>I wonder what the performance differences are between E/P-Mags and the
>competing LSE- Systems in terms of additional power output as well as fuel
>savings?
>
>I wonder if anyone has ever run a single LSE in conjunction with not a
>Magneto, but rather an E/P-Mag for two truly redundant electronic
>ignitions?
>
>Hmm, I wonder how they would work together, i.e. if both competing EI
>systems would be mixed on one engine??? Hmm...?
>
>Konrad
>On Mar 9, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
>>I think the early problems are behind them. I have one on my 8A based on
>>some recommendations of RV pilots I trust that have had no issues in
>>years of use. I plan to place on eon my -10 when they finally release the
>>6 cylinder version.
>>Like most systems I prefer diversity so I would never run two PMags but I
>>would never run two Light speed either.
>>
>>
>>Robin
>>
>>
>>From:
>><mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com>owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:<mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com>owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com]
>>On Behalf Of <mailto:HCRV6(at)comcast.net>HCRV6(at)comcast.net
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 AM
>>To: <mailto:rv6-list(at)matronics.com>rv6-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV6-List: Anyone here?
>>
>>
>>HI Konrad,
>>
>>Well, the evidence seems to be accumulating that they have. More and
>>more of them are in use in RV's in my area, KLVK, and so far it looks
>>like they may have worked through those early problems. I remain
>>somewhat cautious but thinking about starting with one and see how it
>>goes.
>>
>>Harry Crosby
>>RV-6 N16CX, 805 hours
>>
>>---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
panamared505(at)brier.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: PMag |
|
|
Wait until the slick mags need to be replaced/OH then go for the P-mag.
There are a lots of extra upgrades that you will probably do over the life
of the airplane, you do not have to do all them now!
Bob
---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: PMag |
|
|
The principal improvements of EIs over magnetos are a much hotter spark over a larger plug gap, spark advance as well as more reliability. A hotter spark will ignite a leaner mixture more reliably. It should start easier, too. Magnetos stay at the same timing whatever the RPM and manifold pressure, until the points wear anyway. They were made with no advance to avoid the possibility of detonation at high power settings. EIs advance at lower manifold pressure, where detonation margins are increased, to gain back some of the lost power that occurs as the flame front takes longer to make it's way across the bore. This puts the timing of the maximum cylinder pressure at the proper angle for the connecting rod to do it's best work. With one EI and one mag and when the EI is advanced, the magneto fires much later than the EI and much of the burn is over before the magneto contributes. If I turn mine off at altitude, it's barely noticeable, if at all. We have a Lightspeed and a Bendix on an O-320, so you know.
There shouldn't be a problem with mixing brands of EIs. The advance curves aren't likely to be exactly the same and that probably won't matter much, especially if the maximum advance is the same for both. There should be a measurable fuel savings with the use of EIs. I can't document that as our plane has always been equipped like this. The Lightspeed has no moving parts which can be a consideration for reliability. The P-mag will run if electrical power to it is lost.
Here's a link to an article from Sport Aviation that covers some of the basics of ignition systems:
http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/Technicalities/sport_aviation95.html
I've flown for more than six years behind an EI and I do like it better than the magneto and trust it more. I've never had a fouled plug on the EI and the plugs are cheap enough to throw out every year. Can't say the same for the aviation plugs fired by magneto. I'm not trying to sell one EI system over another. Do your own research. With any electronic ignition, you'll get most of the performance/economy boost with the first one. A second one will add a little, but not as much. One approach might be to replace one mag with an EI and save the other mag for when the first one starts acting up. If and when the second one needs replaced, you'll probably want a second EI.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
On 3/9/2011 10:54 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: [quote] [quote]--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> (dralle(at)matronics.com)
I was browsing the P-Mag web site this week. They look pretty cool, but the web site really makes no mention of whether there's any real performance/economy benefit to them. Does anyone have any real world experience along these lines?
I've got two standard Slick mags on my IO-390. If I dumped $2200 on a pair of P-Mags, would I really notice any difference? The IO-390 already starts and runs great. More power and better economy are always welcome, though...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 150+ Hours TTSN - Paint Job Is All That's Left To Do...
At 10:36 AM 3/9/2011 Wednesday, you wrote:
[quote]Do they even still make the E-mag, the non self powered version?
I wonder what the performance differences are between E/P-Mags and the competing LSE- Systems in terms of additional power output as well as fuel savings?
I wonder if anyone has ever run a single LSE in conjunction with not a Magneto, but rather an E/P-Mag for two truly redundant electronic ignitions?
Hmm, I wonder how they would work together, i.e. if both competing EI systems would be mixed on one engine??? Hmm...?
Konrad
On Mar 9, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
[quote]I think the early problems are behind them. I have one on my 8A based on some recommendations of RV pilots I trust that have had no issues in years of use. I plan to place on eon my -10 when they finally release the 6 cylinder version. Like most systems I prefer diversity so I would never run two PMags but I would never run two Light speed either. Robin From: <mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com> (owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com)owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:<mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com> (owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com)owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of <mailto:HCRV6(at)comcast.net> (HCRV6(at)comcast.net)HCRV6(at)comcast.net (HCRV6(at)comcast.net) Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 AM To: <mailto:rv6-list(at)matronics.com> (rv6-list(at)matronics.com)rv6-list(at)matronics.com (rv6-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: RV6-List: Anyone here? HI Konrad, Well, the evidence seems to be accumulating that they have. More and more of them are in use in RV's in my area, KLVK, and so far it looks like they may have worked through those early problems. I remain somewhat cautious but thinking about starting with one and see how it goes. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 805 hours ---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stucklfw(at)westinghouse.
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:11 am Post subject: PMag |
|
|
Matt,
Nobody so far has addressed your original question: is there any real performance/economy benefit… From my experiences on two RV-6A’s (both O-320 D1A engines) and an RV-7A (IO-360) one P-Mag and one Slick Mag will result in about a 10% fuel savings. Adding the second P-Mag doesn’t add much more economy. You will also find that starting on a P-Mag Vs a Impulse Mag will result in quicker starts. As others have pointed out, there is less chances of foiled plugs with the P-Mag.
That all being said, I currently have one P-Mag and one slick on the RV-7A IO-360 setup. I have the P-Mag firing all the lower plugs as they tend to foil more often than the top pugs. I’m using the standard “A” curve for timing…..
I currently have just over 500 Hrs on the Slick Mag, and will be replacing it with a second P-Mag…….
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold)
RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold)
RV-7A N924RV 525 Hrs Flying
Time:
11:01:48 AM PST US
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
Subject:
Re: PMag | Quote: | | I was browsing the P-Mag web site this week. They look pretty cool, but the web site really makes no mention of whether there's any real performance/economy benefit to them. Does anyone have any real world experience along these lines? I've got two standard Slick mags on my IO-390. If I dumped $2200 on a pair of P-Mags, would I really notice any difference? The IO-390 already starts and runs |
0123456
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
