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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:36 pm Post subject: Intake Hose |
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p { margin: 0; }Guys,
I am using a 260 main and 290 needle jet and still just barely on the rich side at full throttle. When I pull back to 2600 ~ 2650 it will lean out. My front 2 cylinders will run 1350 EGT at cruise while the other 4 are below 1200. I believe this to be due an inherent design problem. I have tried most all the ideas I have read and nothing seems to work at all throttle settings. I have to cruise at 2550 or lower or go above 2850 to maintain cooling. Has anyone toyed with a needle change. I am using the newer leaner tapered needle and black floats.
PLEASE BE ADVISED OF THE PROBLEM I HAD USING SMOOTH RADIATOR HOSE. WHEN IT WARMS UP IT BECOMES PLIABLE AND WILL COLLAPSE AT FULL THROTTLE. PLEASE INSTALL VANES TO PREVENT THIS . My engine quit cold on take off roll just prior to lift off. Another minute and I would have been in the trees.
Bobby
Jab 3300
601 XL "B"
116 hrs.
[quote][b]
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: Intake Hose |
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Hi Bobby,
Have you checked the actual size of the main jet ? Ours had #255 stamped on it but measured at 0.25mm so we took it out to 0.260 mm which helped. The EGT is irrelevant below 75% power in my opinion, but you could try placing a small washer under the needle clip in order to raise it slightly, hence richening the mixture.
Martin
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:32 AM, <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote] Guys,
I am using a 260 main and 290 needle jet and still just barely on the rich side at full throttle. When I pull back to 2600 ~ 2650 it will lean out. My front 2 cylinders will run 1350 EGT at cruise while the other 4 are below 1200. I believe this to be due an inherent design problem. I have tried most all the ideas I have read and nothing seems to work at all throttle settings. I have to cruise at 2550 or lower or go above 2850 to maintain cooling. Has anyone toyed with a needle change. I am using the newer leaner tapered needle and black floats.
PLEASE BE ADVISED OF THE PROBLEM I HAD USING SMOOTH RADIATOR HOSE. WHEN IT WARMS UP IT BECOMES PLIABLE AND WILL COLLAPSE AT FULL THROTTLE. PLEASE INSTALL VANES TO PREVENT THIS . My engine quit cold on take off roll just prior to lift off. Another minute and I would have been in the trees.
Bobby
Jab 3300
601 XL "B"
116 hrs.
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: Intake Hose |
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"I believe this to be due an inherent design problem."
Yup, you got it, Bobby...it's called a compromise solution, and
that's what Jabiru decided to go with in their intake manifold
design. A thing of beauty, that doesn't work worth a damn, in my
estimation....that's the manifold I'm talking about....the rest of
the engine is also a thing of beauty, and some of it works pretty
well most of the time.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1086 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Mar 13, 2011, at 4:32 PM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net wrote:
| Quote: | I believe this to be due an inherent design problem. I have tried
most all the ideas I have read and nothing seems to work at all
throttle settings.
|
(snip)
| Quote: |
Bobby
Jab 3300
601 XL "B"
116 hrs.
============================================================ _-
============================================================ _-
contribution_-
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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MHerder
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Hose |
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Bobby,
I thank you for sharing your experience with your collapsing tube! I take it there was no warning, but I'm wondering now if my "warning" could be lower than anticipated RPM. Did you fly at all before this happened or was it on your first takeoff roll in this configuration? I've got about 1.5 hrs like this now without the dividers and with the Radiator hose, but with your comments I wont push it more without some reconsideration as to how to be sure the hose doesn't collapse.
I will say however that my hose is very rigid (nearly 1/4" tck), but I could see your point when warm. I would also figure that once it starts to collapse, it happens almost instantaneously rather than slowly.
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_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: Intake Hose |
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Do you all remember when the lower radiator hose(s) on cars had a
spring coiled up inside them? I don't mean molded inside, I mean just
slid into the lower hose. (The upper didn't necessarily have a
spring.) Well, I had a car that I was working on, and the spring was
all rusty, so I decided to throw the spring away, and reinstall the
hose. I did and went merrily on my way. Some time later, I was
working under the hood and running the engine, and I noticed that
when I'd rev the engine up, the lower hose would collapse....yup, the
hose was being sucked shut by the suction of the water pump. The same
thing is happening with your intake hose, because it is not strong
enough. When I first installed my Jabiru, I used a truck radiator
hose for an inlet, but it was quite stiff, and didn't...as far as I
could tell...collapse under suction.
Bobby, did you do a thorough run-up before flying with that
collapsing hose? It seems like that would have given you a clue as to
whether the hose would behave or not. If you could not get the engine
to run up to 2850 or so, static, then I would have looked further
into it before taking off.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1086 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Mar 13, 2011, at 10:44 PM, MHerder wrote:
| Quote: |
<michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
Bobby,
I thank you for sharing your experience with your collapsing tube!
I take it there was no warning, but I'm wondering now if my
"warning" could be lower than anticipated RPM. Did you fly at all
before this happened or was it on your first takeoff roll in this
configuration? I've got about 1.5 hrs like this now without the
dividers and with the Radiator hose, but with your comments I wont
push it more without some reconsideration as to how to be sure the
hose doesn't collapse.
I will say however that my hose is very rigid (nearly 1/4" tck),
but I could see your point when warm. I would also figure that
once it starts to collapse, it happens almost instantaneously
rather than slowly.
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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pete(at)usjabiru.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:49 am Post subject: Intake Hose |
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Perhaps the difference here might be a “Radiator Hose” vs an “Intake Hose”. Radiator hoses are cheap and usually available from local auto stores but not designed for suction. Intake hoses are more of a specialized item and are designed to hold up to intake suction and might be best found at www.intakehoses.com.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:33 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Intake Hose
Guys,
I am using a 260 main and 290 needle jet and still just barely on the rich side at full throttle. When I pull back to 2600 ~ 2650 it will lean out. My front 2 cylinders will run 1350 EGT at cruise while the other 4 are below 1200. I believe this to be due an inherent design problem. I have tried most all the ideas I have read and nothing seems to work at all throttle settings. I have to cruise at 2550 or lower or go above 2850 to maintain cooling. Has anyone toyed with a needle change. I am using the newer leaner tapered needle and black floats.
PLEASE BE ADVISED OF THE PROBLEM I HAD USING SMOOTH RADIATOR HOSE. WHEN IT WARMS UP IT BECOMES PLIABLE AND WILL COLLAPSE AT FULL THROTTLE. PLEASE INSTALL VANES TO PREVENT THIS . My engine quit cold on take off roll just prior to lift off. Another minute and I would have been in the trees.
Bobby
Jab 3300
601 XL "B"
116 hrs.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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MHerder
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Intake Hose |
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Tilting the bowl helped things run smoother. Haven't installed vane yet but will do so very soon and report back.
#5 is still the pesky warm cylinder. Just above 1400 at MWOT. The rest are running a little cooler now. I went back to hte .255 which helped a bit too.
This really is a moving target. Any little change has a trickle effect on other things.
I just think that I should be able to get 3300 rpm on such a fine pitch prop (64x47)
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying |
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MHerder
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:06 am Post subject: Intake Hose |
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Fine pitch? 47"? I had a 62 X 46 on my 2200, and I couldn't get 3300
unless I was going downhill.
At WOT the needle is pulled up as far as it will
go...supposedly....and this should richen things up quite a bit, and
should give you something in the 1200's for EGT. Then when you reduce
throttle to cruise speed, the needle plugs part of the needle jet,
and things warm up a bit. If you've got 1400 at WOT, something is wrong.
What plane is this on again? It helps if you add some pertinent data
into your signature...then questions like I just asked is always
available.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1088 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Mar 14, 2011, at 12:43 PM, MHerder wrote:
| Quote: |
<michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
Tilting the bowl helped things run smoother. Haven't installed
vane yet but will do so very soon and report back.
#5 is still the pesky warm cylinder. Just above 1400 at MWOT. The
rest are running a little cooler now. I went back to hte .255
which helped a bit too.
This really is a moving target. Any little change has a trickle
effect on other things.
I just think that I should be able to get 3300 rpm on such a fine
pitch prop (64x47)
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=333871#333871
|
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
|
_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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MHerder
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Intake Hose |
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I should clarify. THis is on a Jab 3300, it is a 64x47. It is on a Zodiac HD (draggier) not an XL. Most XL drivers seem to be using a 64x51. I wanted climb.
I agree something is wrong... THat something is the distribution of fuel to the cylinders. 1425 is the worst I've seen that #5 at. Mind you, at the same time, my cyl 6 is running at 1080-1100!. Tilting the carb has helped and now.
The mathematical average of the cylinders at MWOT is about 1225-1275, so my main jetting appears to be about right. Ive tried the .255 and .250 It seems that in an Ideal world I might need something in the middle. If I get really ambitious one day and when I really get things tuned in I might open up my .250 just a tiny tiny bit with a very precise reamer, but I'm not that close yet in the tuning stages.
I'll look into adding some clarifications on my signature. Good point.
| Lynn Matteson wrote: | Fine pitch? 47"? I had a 62 X 46 on my 2200, and I couldn't get 3300
unless I was going downhill.
At WOT the needle is pulled up as far as it will
go...supposedly....and this should richen things up quite a bit, and
should give you something in the 1200's for EGT. Then when you reduce
throttle to cruise speed, the needle plugs part of the needle jet,
and things warm up a bit. If you've got 1400 at WOT, something is wrong.
What plane is this on again? It helps if you add some pertinent data
into your signature...then questions like I just asked is always
available.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1088 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Mar 14, 2011, at 12:43 PM, MHerder wrote:
| Quote: |
<michaelherder>
Tilting the bowl helped things run smoother. Haven't installed
vane yet but will do so very soon and report back.
#5 is still the pesky warm cylinder. Just above 1400 at MWOT. The
rest are running a little cooler now. I went back to hte .255
which helped a bit too.
This really is a moving target. Any little change has a trickle
effect on other things.
I just think that I should be able to get 3300 rpm on such a fine
pitch prop (64x47)
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=333871#333871
|
|
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying |
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lbmathias(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: Intake Hose |
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Mike,
I have had similar numbers on my 3300 in a Lightning; the splitter
vane installed in the exit from the airbox cover made the greatest
improvement. Changing jets had no impact.
Linda Mathias
---
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