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Conjecture about Frank D's IIIX wing and tail incidence

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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: Conjecture about Frank D's IIIX wing and tail incidence

First time using the Paint attachment to Irfanview. The arrow on the picture of my Mk IIIC was black when I edited it but saved as red. Sorry guys for any confusion.



Rick



 On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Frank, I've changed the subject line to reflect exactly what this is, conjecture based upon the photo you posted (which I've attached here).When Bryan delivered Ken Holle's Mk IIIX to my shop last December we had a great conversation about all things Kolb. One of the many tidbits he shared with me was how the taller steel main gear for the IIIX was developed. When the angle of incidence was changed on the prototype Mk IIIX to correct the cruise position of the its new nose, Bryan found that he couldn't get the aircraft to rotate without using the first notch of flaps. The combination of lower wing incidence and short gear legs didn't work so the new steel legs, that are about 6" taller (raising the take off incidence back to that of the IIIC) were developed.

  That being said, I notice two things from the picture. You have the short gear and judging by the difference between the aft cabin roof frame (those "C" shaped weldments that extend outboard of the cabin and parallel to the wing root rib) and the bottom of the wing, I believe you have the wing incidence set to that of a Mk IIIC and the horizontal stabilizer set to that of a Mk IIIX.

  I've cropped out a section of your picture. The red arrow points to your cabin roof frame. Notice the difference in angle to that of the bottom of the wing. This frame is visible from the front on your airplane, it is not on mine as shown in the picture of cabin roof and wing bottom of my Mk IIIC. I had to take the picture from the rear of my aircraft to see the difference. Notice the wing bottom is more near parallel to the cabin roof frame (black arrow). It also shows that Zulu Delta is in bad need of a spring bath. :-}

  While I was out in the hangar to take the picture, I grabbed my Warp Drive propeller protractor. The bottom of my wing measures 12 degrees angle of incidence.

Frank, it's your experiment and you're free to do with it as you see fit, but if you measure the wing incidence and find it is indeed too high, I respectfully suggest you fix it rather than doing a bandaid job with a trim tab.

  



Rick Girard

-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

    - Groucho Marx



 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:30 am Post subject: Conjecture about Frank D's IIIX wing and tail incidence

Dang, hit the pick key instead of the enter key and sent this too early.This post may come through twice as I got a returned mail response when I first sent it because of the apostrophes in the file names. I renamed the attachment files and resent the post, then Matronics put the first one through.

 



Rick



On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   First time using the Paint attachment to Irfanview. The arrow on the picture of my Mk IIIC was black when I edited it but saved as red. Sorry guys for any confusion.



Rick

 



 On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    Frank, I've changed the subject line to reflect exactly what this is, conjecture based upon the photo you posted (which I've attached here).When Bryan delivered Ken Holle's Mk IIIX to my shop last December we had a great conversation about all things Kolb. One of the many tidbits he shared with me was how the taller steel main gear for the IIIX was developed. When the angle of incidence was changed on the prototype Mk IIIX to correct the cruise position of the its new nose, Bryan found that he couldn't get the aircraft to rotate without using the first notch of flaps. The combination of lower wing incidence and short gear legs didn't work so the new steel legs, that are about 6" taller (raising the take off incidence back to that of the IIIC) were developed.

   That being said, I notice two things from the picture. You have the short gear and judging by the difference between the aft cabin roof frame (those "C" shaped weldments that extend outboard of the cabin and parallel to the wing root rib) and the bottom of the wing, I believe you have the wing incidence set to that of a Mk IIIC and the horizontal stabilizer set to that of a Mk IIIX.

   I've cropped out a section of your picture. The red arrow points to your cabin roof frame. Notice the difference in angle to that of the bottom of the wing. This frame is visible from the front on your airplane, it is not on mine as shown in the picture of cabin roof and wing bottom of my Mk IIIC. I had to take the picture from the rear of my aircraft to see the difference. Notice the wing bottom is more near parallel to the cabin roof frame (black arrow). It also shows that Zulu Delta is in bad need of a spring bath. :-}

   While I was out in the hangar to take the picture, I grabbed my Warp Drive propeller protractor. The bottom of my wing measures 12 degrees angle of incidence.

Frank, it's your experiment and you're free to do with it as you see fit, but if you measure the wing incidence and find it is indeed too high, I respectfully suggest you fix it rather than doing a bandaid job with a trim tab.

   



Rick Girard

-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

     - Groucho Marx



 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

    - Groucho Marx



 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

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