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wingdingy(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 |
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| Quote: | >>>>That is pretty much SOP - putting a bit of oil on the filter gasket and
filling the filter with fresh prior to fitting.<<<<<
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Hello Martin,
Yes, I know. Been doing it that way for 30+ years. I thought it was interesting information to share with the group. I hope you found it helpful.
>>>>>>>But my understanding is that the reason you apply oil to the gasket is to
prevent it grabbing when you tighten it up and possibly tearing or winding
out of shape.<<<<<<
That is part of it. The carbon bound in the old oil helps the new gasket stick after it gets hot the first time. That is the point of using old oil on the gasket.
>>>>>And are you serious about 912's shaking ? I'd be balancing your prop as
soon as possible !<<<<<<
Nothing wrong with my prop at all. The 912s is a high compression 4 cylinder engine that uses two carbs. It will never run as smooth as a 6 cylinder. Ever. Balance issues with the Rotax are inherent in the design of the engine, not the balance of the prop. Of the two dozen or so Rotax 9xx's I've flown behind (or in front of) this particular one in my Ximango is the smoothest of all and it still shakes like a banshee at start up and shut down compared to the Jabiru, even with the prop perfectly balanced and the carbs perfectly synced.
FWIW, I've been operating and maintaining a 3300 and a 912s side by side for nigh onto 5 years now with a combined TT approaching 1000 hours. There's really no reason to be biased one way or the other on either engine. They're both good engines. I have no idea why the rivalry always sets up between engine owners.There is stuff both groups can learn from the other. I get the same bias from Rotax owners, especially in the Europa crowd in Europe. (Rotax is the only way!) Yeah, well, I'm here to tell you it's BS on both ends. The truth is both engines have their high points and low points. Gripes I hear from both sides are generally a product of owner ignorance. You would not believe some of the crap I've heard out of Rotax owners about the Jab. Overall, I don't see an advantage one has over the other beyond price. The Rotax, with jacketed heads, is perfectly suited for use in a motorglider, light, powerful, low fuel consumption, etc. The Jab is better suited for a touring airplane like the Europa, fast, smooth, powerful, although with a slight weight and fuel consumption penalty. However, as an example, the Jab wouldn't last two seasons in a motorglider. Much like when the Limbach was used in motorgliders shock cooling would likely do in the heads and probably the crank in relatively short order. Ask an early Stemme or Ximango owner, or a Taifun owner. They'll tell you all about it. This problem simply doesn't exist with the Rotax, thanks to the jacketed heads.
As with everything, there's always give and take.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Jabiru 3300
Ximango N135XS - Flying
Rotax 912s (certified)
[quote][b]
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 |
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Oh BULL-DINKEY!
Carbon in the oil... Come on get real! What are you talking about, parts per million!
I don't know who is worse old Wife's and their tails ... Or Young wanta-bees and their regurgitation of oral deification.
The oil is put on to prevent dragging of the 'O' ring and distortion. <--- See the PERIOD!
Old oil Vs New oil... BULL! Use what ever is available.. As one fellow said... The new oil ain't open yet! GREAT ANSWER.
BUT! Please stop with the BULL!
Hey even BullS#!+ will act as lubrication until it dries up. Then you can tape it to your wings ... Because we all know how well Cow Chips Fly.
Barry
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:20 AM, John Lawton <wingdingy(at)gmail.com (wingdingy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] >>>>>That is pretty much SOP - putting a bit of oil on the filter gasket and
filling the filter with fresh prior to fitting.<<<<<
Hello Martin,
Yes, I know. Been doing it that way for 30+ years. I thought it was interesting information to share with the group. I hope you found it helpful.
>>>>>>>But my understanding is that the reason you apply oil to the gasket is to
prevent it grabbing when you tighten it up and possibly tearing or winding
out of shape.<<<<<<
That is part of it. The carbon bound in the old oil helps the new gasket stick after it gets hot the first time. That is the point of using old oil on the gasket.
>>>>>And are you serious about 912's shaking ? I'd be balancing your prop as
soon as possible !<<<<<<
Nothing wrong with my prop at all. The 912s is a high compression 4 cylinder engine that uses two carbs. It will never run as smooth as a 6 cylinder. Ever. Balance issues with the Rotax are inherent in the design of the engine, not the balance of the prop. Of the two dozen or so Rotax 9xx's I've flown behind (or in front of) this particular one in my Ximango is the smoothest of all and it still shakes like a banshee at start up and shut down compared to the Jabiru, even with the prop perfectly balanced and the carbs perfectly synced.
FWIW, I've been operating and maintaining a 3300 and a 912s side by side for nigh onto 5 years now with a combined TT approaching 1000 hours. There's really no reason to be biased one way or the other on either engine. They're both good engines. I have no idea why the rivalry always sets up between engine owners.There is stuff both groups can learn from the other. I get the same bias from Rotax owners, especially in the Europa crowd in Europe. (Rotax is the only way!) Yeah, well, I'm here to tell you it's BS on both ends. The truth is both engines have their high points and low points. Gripes I hear from both sides are generally a product of owner ignorance. You would not believe some of the crap I've heard out of Rotax owners about the Jab. Overall, I don't see an advantage one has over the other beyond price. The Rotax, with jacketed heads, is perfectly suited for use in a motorglider, light, powerful, low fuel consumption, etc. The Jab is better suited for a touring airplane like the Europa, fast, smooth, powerful, although with a slight weight and fuel consumption penalty. However, as an example, the Jab wouldn't last two seasons in a motorglider. Much like when the Limbach was used in motorgliders shock cooling would likely do in the heads and probably the crank in relatively short order. Ask an early Stemme or Ximango owner, or a Taifun owner. They'll tell you all about it. This problem simply doesn't exist with the Rotax, thanks to the jacketed heads.
As with everything, there's always give and take.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Jabiru 3300
Ximango N135XS - Flying
Rotax 912s (certified)
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 |
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Hi John,
I now see that you were talking about the start up and shut-down vibes ! The only answer there might be a free-wheeling clutch. In flight, I have found the 912 series to be much smoother than any Jab 6, not that I minded the relatively low frequency vibes anyway, just a bit surprising with a flat six.
I don't know if you aware, but Rotec is making watercooled heads for the Jabs, and I am half-way through fitting a set at the moment. I'll let you know how that goes.
As an aside, there is a new version of the CAW SportCruiser expected later this year that is not only aerobatic but will have the option of the UL360i , which started life as a Jab 2.2 replacement. I'll be following that with interest !
Cheers
Martin
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:20 PM, John Lawton <wingdingy(at)gmail.com (wingdingy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]>>>>>That is pretty much SOP - putting a bit of oil on the filter gasket and
filling the filter with fresh prior to fitting.<<<<<
Hello Martin,
Yes, I know. Been doing it that way for 30+ years. I thought it was interesting information to share with the group. I hope you found it helpful.
>>>>>>>But my understanding is that the reason you apply oil to the gasket is to
prevent it grabbing when you tighten it up and possibly tearing or winding
out of shape.<<<<<<
That is part of it. The carbon bound in the old oil helps the new gasket stick after it gets hot the first time. That is the point of using old oil on the gasket.
>>>>>And are you serious about 912's shaking ? I'd be balancing your prop as
soon as possible !<<<<<<
Nothing wrong with my prop at all. The 912s is a high compression 4 cylinder engine that uses two carbs. It will never run as smooth as a 6 cylinder. Ever. Balance issues with the Rotax are inherent in the design of the engine, not the balance of the prop. Of the two dozen or so Rotax 9xx's I've flown behind (or in front of) this particular one in my Ximango is the smoothest of all and it still shakes like a banshee at start up and shut down compared to the Jabiru, even with the prop perfectly balanced and the carbs perfectly synced.
FWIW, I've been operating and maintaining a 3300 and a 912s side by side for nigh onto 5 years now with a combined TT approaching 1000 hours. There's really no reason to be biased one way or the other on either engine. They're both good engines. I have no idea why the rivalry always sets up between engine owners.There is stuff both groups can learn from the other. I get the same bias from Rotax owners, especially in the Europa crowd in Europe. (Rotax is the only way!) Yeah, well, I'm here to tell you it's BS on both ends. The truth is both engines have their high points and low points. Gripes I hear from both sides are generally a product of owner ignorance. You would not believe some of the crap I've heard out of Rotax owners about the Jab. Overall, I don't see an advantage one has over the other beyond price. The Rotax, with jacketed heads, is perfectly suited for use in a motorglider, light, powerful, low fuel consumption, etc. The Jab is better suited for a touring airplane like the Europa, fast, smooth, powerful, although with a slight weight and fuel consumption penalty. However, as an example, the Jab wouldn't last two seasons in a motorglider. Much like when the Limbach was used in motorgliders shock cooling would likely do in the heads and probably the crank in relatively short order. Ask an early Stemme or Ximango owner, or a Taifun owner. They'll tell you all about it. This problem simply doesn't exist with the Rotax, thanks to the jacketed heads.
As with everything, there's always give and take.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Jabiru 3300
Ximango N135XS - Flying
Rotax 912s (certified)
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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