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kenpowell(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: RV-9 & RV-4 as LSA |
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Hi guys,
I have been a lurker for years but I just couldn't resist commenting on this subject. I started a RV-4 many years ago but never finished it; it is still sitting in the garage awaiting my retirement. Note that a RV-4 has 110 sq ft of wing area and a RV-12 has 125 sq ft. A 'light' RV-4 with an O-320 routinely weighs about 950 lbs. A O-200 weighs about 90 lbs less than a O-320; I think that a 850 lb RV-4 is very possible. This will leave a useful load of 470 lbs. I weigh 170 and my wife weighs 115 lbs (total 285 lbs) which leaves 185 lbs for fuel and luggage. The problem with the LSA regs is not that the RV-4 stalls too fast (~54 MPH clean at 950 lbs) but that the airframe is too fast in top speed. The trick to slow tha airplane down is to extend the wings ~18" on either side (downgrade to the Utility catagory) for a total of 125 sq ft just like the RV-12. This should keep the speed legal (or really close) since both airplanes will have the same wing area and HP (actually, few O-200's really put out 100 HP!!!). Wheel pants and leg fairings will probably make the '-4' too fast so these probably cannot be used. A RV-4 is probably a better candidate for LSA since it is about 100 lbs lighter than a RV-9.
Ken Powell
Bryant, Arkansas 72022
501-847-4721
[quote][b]
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rscott(at)cascadeaccess.c
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: RV-9 & RV-4 as LSA |
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I have to wonder about this RV-9 as an LSA business.
Yes, it has been done, but just because something can be done doesn't
mean it's a great idea. Ford thought the Edsel was a great idea (ok,
some of you are too young to know about the Edsel), the government
thought ethanol in gas was a great idea, etc. Lots of bad ideas look
like good ideas, especially if you want them to be.
I understand the heartbreak of giving up a project that a person has
been working on for years--I am in that exact situation myself with
medical issues that make my passing a physical questionable and a half
done RV-9A in the garage.
So, I have to ask,
Why? The plane designed for LSA is the -12, not the -9. So you have to
modify and watch every gram to keep the weight down. You have to
downgrade the prop and engine from what the plane could have had. And
when you are done, if you are concerned about money, will it have the
resale value? A buyer looking for an LSA RV would logically look for an
RV-12 which would have a better payload. And once a -9 is registered as
an LSA, it is LSA forever, so it will always be a bastardized RV-9.
So here is my situation and my own reasoning.
My project is for sale. The only justification I can see for finishing
the -9 is if I thought my workmanship was super and the plane was a
potential prize winner so I could charge big bucks for the newly
finished airplane. But realistically, my workmanship is probably about
typical, so why finish it? Why make it LSA-- just because I have time
and emotion invested in it? I learned a lot while working on it so all
is not a waste of time--I got an education.
If I want an LSA RV, I'll build a -12 and probably have it in the air
before I could have finished the -9A anyway. Or I can wait until a
project is abandoned and have it in the air even faster. Having built a
-9 part way, I can do a decent job of evaluating workmanship on a
project and I can build it faster than I would as a beginner.
As it is, my Interstate Cadet that I have flown for 20 years is an LSA,
so it may just be a matter of getting out of the building business.
Dick Scott
Estacada, OR (28 miles from Van's)
503-630-4739
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Jdaniel343
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: RV-9 & RV-4 as LSA |
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I may be wrong but, you don't register the RV-9 as LSA but as an
experimental.
If the aircraft meets the weight and performance of a LSA you can then fly
it with a sport pilot license with its requirements.
There are many planes that are certificated that can be flown with a LSP
license.
--
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rscott(at)cascadeaccess.c
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: RV-9 & RV-4 as LSA |
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Yes and no, I misspoke or rather miswrote. When you license the plane,
as the manufacturer you designate the gross weight. My understanding
is that it is difficult to get an approval to change the gross weight.
Could be wrong, but that's my understanding. If I am right, it will
always be restricted to the LSA specs.
On 2011-04-05 18:59, John wrote:
[quote]
I may be wrong but, you don't register the RV-9 as LSA but as an
experimental.
If the aircraft meets the weight and performance of a LSA you can then fly
it with a sport pilot license with its requirements.
There are many planes that are certificated that can be flown with a LSP
license.
--
| | - The Matronics RV9-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Jdaniel343
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: RV-9 & RV-4 as LSA |
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Yes I think you are right. Once the gross weight is set, you will not be
able to have that changed. It will always have to fly with the restrictions
that were set when one has the plane registered.
--
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: RV-9 & RV-4 as LSA |
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That is correct. The only way to build an LSA as an E-LSA, is if the factory has built and certified an S-LSA, which Van's hasn't. The -9 would be an AB Experimental that would be flyable by a sport pilot if it wasn't certified with a gross weight higher than 1,320 lbs. I don't know the options as far as changing the gross weight down the road, as was mentioned. In my experience in AB Experimental, the FAA doesn't really have any record of what was set as the gross weight, so changing it might not be as difficult as has been mentioned on the list, but I do remember hearing that if the particular aircraft has ever been registered at a higher gross weight than 1,320, it can never be flown as an LSA.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:59 PM, John wrote:
[quote]
I may be wrong but, you don't register the RV-9 as LSA but as an
experimental.
If the aircraft meets the weight and performance of a LSA you can then fly
it with a sport pilot license with its requirements.
There are many planes that are certificated that can be flown with a LSP
license.
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV9-List |
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