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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
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 Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: QB baggage door seal angle |
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Pat, good points are made by both of you and Marcel. However, don’t forget that RV builders (RVATORS) are highly tolerant, devotional, and litigation adverse. It is a tragic fact that little QC or QA exists going out the door from VANS. We have been spoiled by the CNC precision down to 0.001 and the match drill concept of assembly. There are still many who remember what the words fabrication meant with the RV-4. Yes, some of the fiberglass work is atrocious, some parts are indeed out of tolerance and some parts have induced stress or cracks which need to be dealt with by the ultimate builder, and occasionally there will be a Service Bulletin to correct needed and glaring faults. This is an Amateur Built – Experimental (being pursued for your own exclusive education) and as such every single decision to use a part, attach a part and certify its quality to the DAR is solely the builder’s. Any effort to point a finger at someone else will remain irresponsible. If they don’t care enough to fix the leak, then bail the boat, swim or hold your breath. Did I miss any options once you board?
Orders continue because it remains a great choice among the alternatives. Tracked Lancair fatalities lately?
John Cox
Do not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:22 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: QB bagage door seal angle
In a message dated 5/12/06 8:54:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com writes:
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In addition there's a bit on the Van's web site, legal terms point 7.
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Marcel, just because they write a disclaimer does not make it legal..its just their and their attorney's belief that the statement covers something..it is a court or jury's opinion...that's what counts.
If they make something out of spec and sell it, it's not caveat emptor...it seems to me that they are lacking QA control on a fairly important item...that control is not in the clients hands, but you are relying on them to provideyou with the product as specified, if they don't do that then they need to recall that product and provide you with the quality specified or make sometype of replacement/compensation etc.
Having their customer rework their QA issue is OK as long as you've been notified that the product you are receiving is out of spec...They havethe ability to QA the product in the Philippines, at port, at shipping point etc before releasing it...you the buyer only when it arrives and you begin working on it. I don't believe there is a lot of case law on their side, and I dealt with QA issues for decades...your boiler plate can contain all kinds of statement that will not hold up in court to discourage some people from taking action..it's part of the game. But boiler plates generally do not protect a manufacturer quality/warranty/liability issues IMHO. Mileage may vary.
It's sort of like saying...we've got a problem...the people in my plant are making crap, but I sold it to you and now it's your problem...have a nice day.
I don't mean to take a brush out and paint but the statement from Van's did not sound very customer friendly, it did explain what happened and what they've done since. As long as all are happy then that's a good thing that they are open and frank about the problem.
I wish I could have used the same statement when we made off spec product, but I was dealing with a closed group of customers and our reputation wouldhave gone in the "community" pot if we had taken this type of attitude. My plant goofed up a bit but it now your problem...I really don't know how poor the product was before they made the correction, maybe it was somewhat minor but their comment sure was interesting, none the less.
Patrick
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jhstarn(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: QB baggage door seal angle |
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Ya'll think you have RV-10 problems with Van's. Ya need to talk to a old Harley rider about the factory fit of ANY replacement parts. Why yes we did take RV-4 (no punched, marked or shown holes) parts & plans mix with Harmon Rocket parts & plans and ended up with an HRII. Only won two trophies so far. We also had the used engine checked out, brought up to spec's by the engine shop but built it up ourselves.
Sorry John but you left out the cheese to go with all the whine.
KABONG HRII N561FS Do Not Archive
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Rick S.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas
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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: QB baggage door seal angle |
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Thanks for the perspective. I forgot the Cheeze Whiz. Just for balance, it is no different with certified airline birds manufactured under a TCDS. Parts don’t fit, design is flawed, some modification required. It all pays the same.
As a footnote John, it’s the Harmon Rockets that have given Van most of his heartburn lately (35 years in business). In comparison to the Lancairs, they are right up there. Have you checked the fatality in California?
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:57 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Cc: Tom Gummo
Subject: Re: QB baggage door seal angle
Ya'll think you have RV-10 problems with Van's. Ya need to talk to a old Harley rider about the factory fit of ANY replacement parts. Why yes we did take RV-4 (no punched, marked or shown holes) parts & plans mix with Harmon Rocket parts & plans and ended up with an HRII. Only won two trophies so far. We also had the used engine checked out, brought up to spec's by the engine shop but built it up ourselves.
Sorry John but you left out the cheese to go with all the whine.
KABONG HRII N561FS Do Not Archive
[quote]
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T.gummo(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: QB baggage door seal angle |
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Lets be clear.
The awards are "Peoples Choice Awards" from the local Apple Valley Airport open houses.
Having a military style paint job, sets the plane apart from the spam cans also parked on the ramp during the open house.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
PS - I have found after years of knowing Jack, AKA, KABONG. He sometimes needs a translator. 
[quote] ---
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GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: QB baggage door seal angle |
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John all great points...what's really refreshing about Van's is there open and honesty of the company, it's employees and their customers...a great community culture.
Patrick
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