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Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been publish

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Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been publish

Your FAA contact is missinformed and over stepping his boundarys as that is the realm of the NTSB.  The document clearly states,  At pilots risk.  As E-ab, if you are the manufacturer,  not Zenith. Thus if you think its airworthy, you the manufacturer, can attach a rocket to the tail and fly it.   if i PUT A V12 mERLIN ON IT AND SAY ITS AIRWORTH,  i can fly it.  Insurance coverage is another panty wad mess.



Goes to my old saying and the SAIB this year sums it up;  fly it within its envelope and there should be no issues.



Juan

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psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been publish

Hi Bryan,

Under any other circumstances I would agree with you.  This is a funny 

situation since the Zodiac XL exists both as an E-AB and "Store bought" 

S-LSA.  My guess is the FAA felt they couldn't say the S-LSA planes 

should be grounded and ignore the identical E-AB owners' safety.

I don't know any other way to interpret the inclusion of the full text 

of FAR 91.7 in the same paragraph with the strong suggestion that 

everyone install the AMD upgrade and a heading saying it applied to E-AB 

and E-LSA planes.  I took it as a direct threat to anyone flying a plane 

determined to be not airworthy.

I realize that Wes's position in the FAA is not in the enforcement area 

(Standards/FSDO) but I am quite sure a phone call from him to the head 

of the Standards division would get any pilot grounded in a heartbeat.  

I understand Wes is responsible for all light plane (non-transport 

plane) certifications.  The FAA engineers who do part 23 certification 

reviews all work for him along with a bunch of other people.  It is 

those same engineers who reviewed the XL design and pronounced it 

lacking before the upgrade and meeting the required ASTM standard after 

installation of the upgrade.

Paul

On 4/18/2011 4:31 PM, Bryan Martin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Apr 18, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

>

> I am glad I went through this exercise.  It turns out the guy whose name appears at the bottom of this statement, Wes Ryan, is the same guy I had a long chat with in November 2010 at an ASTM meeting.  He told me in no uncertain terms that the design was deficient before the upgrade and meets the required ASTM specification after the upgrade.

>

 Wes Ryan may be correct in his statement to you, but that is irrelevent. An E-AB aircraft is not required to comply with the ASTM specification for LSA. The builder simply has to show, with a proper phase 1 test program, that the airplane can safely be flown within its designated flight envelope.

 There are E-AB aircraft out there that are far more dangerous to fly and are designed to much lower safety margins than the 601-XL and are still perfiectly legal to fly.

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bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: Final Report on the Markermeer accident has been publish

That rule from FAR 91.7 also specifically states that the pilot must determine if the aircraft is airworthy. For a standard category or S-LSA, the type certificate or ASTM specification is the primary determinant of airworthiness, not so for an E-AB. All E-AB aircraft are considered one of a kind and unique. My background as an engineer and my thorough phase 1 testing have convinced me that my airplane is airworthy if flown within the envelope I determined during that testing. The FAA is in CYA mode in regards to the XL.

On Apr 18, 2011, at 10:13 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi Bryan,

 

 Under any other circumstances I would agree with you.  This is a funny situation since the Zodiac XL exists both as an E-AB and "Store bought" S-LSA.  My guess is the FAA felt they couldn't say the S-LSA planes should be grounded and ignore the identical E-AB owners' safety.

 

 I don't know any other way to interpret the inclusion of the full text of FAR 91.7 in the same paragraph with the strong suggestion that everyone install the AMD upgrade and a heading saying it applied to E-AB and E-LSA planes.  I took it as a direct threat to anyone flying a plane determined to be not airworthy.

 

 I realize that Wes's position in the FAA is not in the enforcement area (Standards/FSDO) but I am quite sure a phone call from him to the head of the Standards division would get any pilot grounded in a heartbeat.  I understand Wes is responsible for all light plane (non-transport plane) certifications.  The FAA engineers who do part 23 certification reviews all work for him along with a bunch of other people.  It is those same engineers who reviewed the XL design and pronounced it lacking before the upgrade and meeting the required ASTM standard after installation of the upgrade.

 

 Paul


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.

do not archive.

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_________________
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

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