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hgmckay
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397
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 Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 |
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I fly an Allegro 2000 ELSA S/N 04-713 with a Rotax 912 UL engine. The MTOW for my airplane is supposedly 1232 lbs. An Allegro 2007 with a Rotax 912 UL is essentially the same airplane, with the same load factors, but with some minor airframe changes such as a little more dihedral in the wing and a slight reshaping of the rear section of the fuselage and raising the tail slightly higher off the ground, yet the MTOW for the 2007 is 1320 lbs. My question is why does the model 2007 have this allowable increase of 88 lbs. over the model 2000? Why will my model 2000 airframe supposedly not safely carry this additional 88 lbs?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
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Brian Carpenter
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 26
Location: TAYLOR, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:33 am Post subject: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 |
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Hugh,
As I understand it, the proposed, guessed at max weight for LSA was to be 1232. The Allegro 2000 being one of the first LSA to be approved used this weight even though 1320 became the final weight limit. If you look around you will see others that use the 1232. I believe that the 1232 limit is also a weight limit that was used in some European countries for their version of a LSA. The 2007 is a whole new airplane and the 1320 was adopted. Was your 04 made before the LSA program was started?? The ruling came out in the Federal Register July 27, 2004
Or I may be all wrong!!!!
Anyway , the point seems mute to me unless you have the extra wing tanks for the extra 10 gals of fuel . With a 22 lb baggage limit and 14 gals of fuel, I find it hard to find a pilot / passenger that can GET IN the airplane that will exceed the 1232 limit.
Brian
--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 8:09 PM
I fly an Allegro 2000 ELSA S/N 04-713 with a Rotax 912 UL engine. The MTOW for my airplane is supposedly 1232 lbs. An Allegro 2007 with a Rotax 912 UL is essentially the same airplane, with the same load factors, but with some minor airframe changes such as a little more dihedral in the wing and a slight reshaping of the rear section of the fuselage and raising the tail slightly higher off the ground, yet the MTOW for the 2007 is 1320 lbs. My question is why does the model 2007 have this allowable increase of 88 lbs. over the model 2000? Why will my model 2000 airframe supposedly not safely carry this additional 88 lbs?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
|
[quote][b]
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BRIAN N3081X |
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hgmckay
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:03 am Post subject: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 |
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Brian,
My Allegro 2000 has S/N 04-713. The order was placed in November 2004, and it was delivered to me in March 2005. I do have the extra wing tanks which carry the extra 10 gallons of fuel (60 lbs.).
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Brian Carpenter (n3081x(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 5:30 AM
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com (allegro-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007
Hugh,
As I understand it, the proposed, guessed at max weight for LSA was to be 1232. The Allegro 2000 being one of the first LSA to be approved used this weight even though 1320 became the final weight limit. If you look around you will see others that use the 1232. I believe that the 1232 limit is also a weight limit that was used in some European countries for their version of a LSA. The 2007 is a whole new airplane and the 1320 was adopted. Was your 04 made before the LSA program was started?? The ruling came out in the Federal Register July 27, 2004
Or I may be all wrong!!!!
Anyway , the point seems mute to me unless you have the extra wing tanks for the extra 10 gals of fuel . With a 22 lb baggage limit and 14 gals of fuel, I find it hard to find a pilot / passenger that can GET IN the airplane that will exceed the 1232 limit.
Brian
--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 8:09 PM
I fly an Allegro 2000 ELSA S/N 04-713 with a Rotax 912 UL engine. The MTOW for my airplane is supposedly 1232 lbs. An Allegro 2007 with a Rotax 912 UL is essentially the same airplane, with the same load factors, but with some minor airframe changes such as a little more dihedral in the wing and a slight reshaping of the rear section of the fuselage and raising the tail slightly higher off the ground, yet the MTOW for the 2007 is 1320 lbs. My question is why does the model 2007 have this allowable increase of 88 lbs. over the model 2000? Why will my model 2000 airframe supposedly not safely carry this additional 88 lbs?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
|
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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aerosiam
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: Re: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 |
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I would be interested to hear Thom's expert view on this subject.
I have no idea if this is correct but here is my take on it.
The Allegro 2000 was designed to the 'standard' European normal / ultimate limits of 4.0 / 6.0 G at 520 kg or 1,144 lb . In the US, the normal category is 3.8 G
1,144 x 6.0 is 6,864 lb. If the weight is raised to 1,232, the normal / ultimate loads are reduced to 3.71 / 5.57
At a weight of 1,320 it is further reduced to 3.46 / 5.2.
The US normal category of 3.8 G comes out at 1,204 lb for the Allegro (6,864 divided by 5.7 divided by 1.5)
Presumably there are issues about operating an aircraft over the original design maximum weight, for example, undercarriage design loads.
I saw photos of Fantasy doing a static test by loading sandbags onto an upside down wing which I think is normal practice. But I wonder just how reliable these static tests are in a dynamic environment. What about the bending loads on the tail boom at 1,320 lb in sudden vertical turbulence?
I have the wing tanks and I have flown my Allegro 2000 on a long trip at about 1,250 lb. The extra weight seemed to make little difference and with the 100 hp engine, the take off and climb from our 1,500 ft grass strip is fine. I check the weather and stay in the green arc until I have burned off some gas.
I would hesitate to operate an aircraft designed to 1,144 lb at 1,320 lb
Is the 2007 model structurally stronger?
Paul
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