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bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
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 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: strength of recovered wings ? |
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Hi Folks,
Ages since I've participated here …I miss it, and sure not surprised to see you all still having a good time. I have a Firestar KXP (1994), flew it for about 200 hours, about which time it was torn from its tie-downs and needed significant repairs. Did those, and flew only limited since then, for other life demands.
One of the things I've always been just a little nervous about is the strength of the recovered wings. (I had replaced several pieces of one wing, and just a few of the other, then complete new covering for both.) I'm not worried about anything in there except where the fabric rivets go into the ribs that I was able to re-use. Mind you, I threw out ribs that had any defects at all, but it still just bothered me that drilling out the old fabric rivets probably enlarged some holes at least slightly.
I think I'm being an old lady about this. Feel free to concur with that ….But has anyone heard of strength issues due to fabric holes after recovering?
ps: my dad wants to fly it now, he's 200lbs compared to me at 155, and his second flight (long ago) he told me what fun it was to spin …after he got back.
Thanks!
-Ben Ransom
Davis, CA
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Eugene Zimmerman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:32 am Post subject: strength of recovered wings ? |
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Ben.
Your little KXP is one of the strongest planes Kolb ever sold. It has seven ribs per wings and is only a single place plane. In my opinion you are concerned about a non issue.
I have recovered numerous kolb planes and reused and repaired ribs and have never had or heard of a problem. If you have ever tried to pull the fabric off a damaged rib you know how good those rivets do their job.
Good to see you back in here again, and hope to hear more about your KXP getting back in the sky again.
Gene Z
On May 3, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Ben Ransom wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Folks,
Ages since I've participated here …I miss it, and sure not surprised to see you all still having a good time. I have a Firestar KXP (1994), flew it for about 200 hours, about which time it was torn from its tie-downs and needed significant repairs. Did those, and flew only limited since then, for other life demands.
One of the things I've always been just a little nervous about is the strength of the recovered wings. (I had replaced several pieces of one wing, and just a few of the other, then complete new covering for both.) I'm not worried about anything in there except where the fabric rivets go into the ribs that I was able to re-use. Mind you, I threw out ribs that had any defects at all, but it still just bothered me that drilling out the old fabric rivets probably enlarged some holes at least slightly.
I think I'm being an old lady about this. Feel free to concur with that ….But has anyone heard of strength issues due to fabric holes after recovering?
ps: my dad wants to fly it now, he's 200lbs compared to me at 155, and his second flight (long ago) he told me what fun it was to spin …after he got back.
Thanks!
-Ben Ransom
Davis, CA
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: strength of recovered wings ? |
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Ben Ransom wrote: << … but it still just bothered me that drilling out the old fabric rivets probably enlarged some holes at least slightly. has anyone heard of strength issues due to fabric holes after recovering? -Ben Ransom >>
Hey, Ben – nice to hear from ya again on the Kolb List!
Good to hear that you got your FS back together and flying. Not sure if you intentionally timed your message this way, but … if I recall, wasn’t it on a Mother’s Day weekend that you encountered that fateful day of bad luck where your tie downs pulled out from a severe wind? (Sorry if mentioning that event festered on old wound!)
Anyway, it is exactly the situation you describe that convinced me to rib stitch my Kolb wings rather than use the wide head fabric rivets, for securing the fabric on my wings. I too wondered if drilling out the old rivets might result in enlarged holes and the possibility of reduced structural integrity of the ribs.
I’ll be watching with interest as the responses come rolling in …
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul
Sandia Park, NM
do not archive
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bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: strength of recovered wings ? |
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Thanks for the reassurance there Gene …good to hear no issues from someone who has recovered several.
Part of what got my imagination going on this is the fact that on most of the damaged ribs in my FS, there was buckling at the fabric rivet holes. But really, this makes sense, as those are the points where span-wise skin forces concentrate, as well as the points where material is removed from the rib tube. I did give special care when removing those rivets.
Dennis, Yes, you're right, it was a Mother's Day. No worries bringing that up, I'd remember anyway! LOL We do get the strong north winds this time of year, and you can bet I have always since been extra thorough on tie-downs.
-Ben
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com (etzimm(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 07:20:09 -0400
To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: strength of recovered wings ?
Ben.
Your little KXP is one of the strongest planes Kolb ever sold. It has seven ribs per wings and is only a single place plane. In my opinion you are concerned about a non issue.
I have recovered numerous kolb planes and reused and repaired ribs and have never had or heard of a problem. If you have ever tried to pull the fabric off a damaged rib you know how good those rivets do their job.
Good to see you back in here again, and hope to hear more about your KXP getting back in the sky again.
Gene Z
On May 3, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Ben Ransom wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Folks,
Ages since I've participated here …I miss it, and sure not surprised to see you all still having a good time. I have a Firestar KXP (1994), flew it for about 200 hours, about which time it was torn from its tie-downs and needed significant repairs. Did those, and flew only limited since then, for other life demands.
One of the things I've always been just a little nervous about is the strength of the recovered wings. (I had replaced several pieces of one wing, and just a few of the other, then complete new covering for both.) I'm not worried about anything in there except where the fabric rivets go into the ribs that I was able to re-use. Mind you, I threw out ribs that had any defects at all, but it still just bothered me that drilling out the old fabric rivets probably enlarged some holes at least slightly.
I think I'm being an old lady about this. Feel free to concur with that ….But has anyone heard of strength issues due to fabric holes after recovering?
ps: my dad wants to fly it now, he's 200lbs compared to me at 155, and his second flight (long ago) he told me what fun it was to spin …after he got back.
Thanks!
-Ben Ransom
Davis, CA
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:29 am Post subject: strength of recovered wings ? |
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Ben- Nice to see you back. I still have your web site on my "favorites" list, and referred to it during my rebuild. I stripped down two sets of damaged wings, and recovered using rivets. When I did have a loose one, I knew it immediately. Some of the ribs were cracked at the rivet holes, and were replaced. Once it was covered, everything went really tight. I think that as long as you find the cracked or suspicious ribs, you won't have any trouble. Especially with the KXP.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447, with 5 rib wings.
--- On Wed, 5/4/11, Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: strength of recovered wings ?
To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 3:09 PM
Thanks for the reassurance there Gene …good to hear no issues from someone who has recovered several.
Part of what got my imagination going on this is the fact that on most of the damaged ribs in my FS, there was buckling at the fabric rivet holes. But really, this makes sense, as those are the points where span-wise skin forces concentrate, as well as the points where material is removed from the rib tube. I did give special care when removing those rivets.
Dennis, Yes, you're right, it was a Mother's Day. No worries bringing that up, I'd remember anyway! LOL We do get the strong north winds this time of year, and you can bet I have always since been extra thorough on tie-downs.
-Ben
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 07:20:09 -0400
To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: strength of recovered wings ?
Ben.
Your little KXP is one of the strongest planes Kolb ever sold. It has seven ribs per wings and is only a single place plane. In my opinion you are concerned about a non issue.
I have recovered numerous kolb planes and reused and repaired ribs and have never had or heard of a problem. If you have ever tried to pull the fabric off a damaged rib you know how good those rivets do their job.
Good to see you back in here again, and hope to hear more about your KXP getting back in the sky again.
Gene Z
On May 3, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Ben Ransom wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Folks,
Ages since I've participated here …I miss it, and sure not surprised to see you all still having a good time. I have a Firestar KXP (1994), flew it for about 200 hours, about which time it was torn from its tie-downs and needed significant repairs. Did those, and flew only limited since then, for other life demands.
One of the things I've always been just a little nervous about is the strength of the recovered wings. (I had replaced several pieces of one wing, and just a few of the other, then complete new covering for both.) I'm not worried about anything in there except where the fabric rivets go into the ribs that I was able to re-use. Mind you, I threw out ribs that had any defects at all, but it still just bothered me that drilling out the old fabric rivets probably enlarged some holes at least slightly.
I think I'm being an old lady about this. Feel free to concur with that ….But has anyone heard of strength issues due to fabric holes after recovering?
ps: my dad wants to fly it now, he's 200lbs compared to me at 155, and his second flight (long ago) he told me what fun it was to spin …after he got back.
Thanks!
-Ben Ransom
Davis, CA
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
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