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Door Incident

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dhsa@mac.com

Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 1

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: Door Incident

I had an incident in the Dallas Texas area last week when the pilot door of my RV-10 flew off the aircraft at 3000 feet.  I was lucky enough to land at McKinney, Texas without injury.  The plane sustained damage to the stabilator, area surrounding the door and rear pilot side window.  We believe the door is in a lake and unrecoverable.  The NTSB and FAA are investigating.  Due to this investigation I will not comment any further as to the cause of the incident until their analysis is complete.   I will advise ALL RV-10 owners that the Vans safety latch was installed and did not function as designed.



I am out of the Atlanta area and my plane is in McKinney Texas at Aero Country.  I am in desperate need of someone with RV experience in the Dallas area to do the repair work.  Any suggestions, recommendations or contacts would be appreciated.

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robertbrunk(at)me.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: Door Incident

My door  was replaced by Stephan Breier at Fazar fbo at Ft.Worth Mecham. He did a great job.

Robert Brunkenhoefer

Sent from my Apple iPad



On May 4, 2011, at 8:04 PM, "dhsa(at)mac.com" <dhsa(at)mac.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I had an incident in the Dallas Texas area last week when the pilot door of my RV-10 flew off the aircraft at 3000 feet. Â I was lucky enough to land at McKinney, Texas without injury. Â The plane sustained damage to the stabilator, area surrounding the door and rear pilot side window. Â We believe the door is in a lake and unrecoverable. Â The NTSB and FAA are investigating. Â Due to this investigation I will not comment any further as to the cause of the incident until their analysis is complete. Â Â I will advise ALL RV-10 owners that the Vans safety latch was installed and did not function as designed.

 

 I am out of the Atlanta area and my plane is in McKinney Texas at Aero Country. Â I am in desperate need of someone with RV experience in the Dallas area to do the repair work. Â Any suggestions, recommendations or contacts would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338944#338944

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: Door Incident

I hate to say this, but until the directions in the plans are re written on how far the pins should penetrate into the aluminum fuselage members, how the fiberglass return on the cabin top should be so snug that a business card can't penetrate between the locked door and the cabin top return, pilots will keep losing doors even with the stupid, ugly, drag inducing latch. 

Having a big gap with a compressible seal leaves one guessing at to whether the door is actually closed. A block of foam in the center of the door laminating the two halves in more places would go a long way to preventing the low pressure on the outside of the door during flight from bowing the door

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dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: Door Incident

agreed on pin length; I requested longer pins from Vans;  insertion varies on how accurately gear box is located in the door. Vans  indicated they had only fixed length pins so we made our own from 6061 stock.  they were intentionally made excessively long and then gradually cut back until  just fitting. Our beveled pins have a full circumference through the door  aluminum frame. After looking at various incidents it seems that loosing the  door in a pitch up attitude invites the door to go over the airframe, but a  level attitude invites a horizontal stabilizer strike. Just wondering whether  the tail cone was bent like 416EC. See http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20071024X01649&key=1.

  

 Also I do not have the pins covered by facade. I "feel"  the pins when loaded and before takeoff but did not install any warning or extra  latch system.. 

 [quote]   ---

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Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Door Incident

One of the easiest and simplest solutions is to have the handle go 180.  Anyone with a standard kit can accomplish this.   Even if you don't want to buy the middle cam or install Vans solution.  If new builders would cut the handle gear racks in half, instead of per vans instructions, it would add considerable pin length.  180 degrees of travel equals TWO inches of pin travel.  Now you can still close a 180 degree handle and have one of the aft pins hanging out the door and still have the door come off.  The key ingredient is making sure the pins go INTO the guides and through the fuselage structure.  Another good reason to have the magnetic or mechanical proximity switches installed.  I truly believe the intention of Vans' latch is to make sure the pins go into the guides NOT hold the door in if you forget to rotate the handle all the way.  (I'm not insinuating this happened to you) That goes for my solution too.  The cam pulls the door in so the pins have to go into the guides.  I made mine so it was a one hand operation to open the door, especially in a situation like Ted just had.  Anyone installing these doors should make sure they are easy to close and the pin extension goes through the structure. 

Another situation has been the hollow stock pins cutting into the stock plastic guides.  I have heard of one incident where the pin lodged into the guide and held the door there until airborne.  The relative wind opened the door and it departed the aircraft.  Prox. switches would help this scenario as well as solid ended pins.  

My 2 cents

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40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Door Incident

+1 for Sean. 

I have his cam and tips and have no worries for door integrity as it solves several issues.  His kit should be supplied stock by Van's. I'm going to visit the factory next week on a PDX RON and suggest that.

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Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

Last edited by woxofswa on Thu May 05, 2011 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: Door Incident

Let them know specifically that their anchor does not resolve the issue and 

the SB 10-14 should be removed and replaced with a working solution (aka 

Sean's).

Thx

--

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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: Door Incident

For many the Vans SB 10-14 is enough.  For some of those the phrase so

often mentioned by Ken at VANS is "Just Build it".  For others who are

true manufacturer's and experimenter in the tradition of the EAA.  Let's

research the possibilities, shout at the moon there must be better ideas

and encourage those who have already walked this path to shine the light

on the road traveled. I continue to marvel at the talent of this group.



There is always a better solution ahead when you view the path laid out

by those before us.



Don't ever buy the mantra "Just Built It".  Know why, know the

alternatives...... choose wisely.



John 

#40600



PS and Thanks Tim for documenting so many of those footsteps.

--

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bill.peyton

Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 198
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Door Incident

I have installed Seans kit and see no way the door could ever come unlatched in flight.  The key is proper and significant penetration into the fuse structure.  One addition I plan on making is to use a drift pin through the threaded rod ends to assure that they can't unscrew in flight from constant vibration.  This is in addition to the locktight on the threads.  

What I would really like to see is someone re-design the door similar to the Cirrus door with the hinge at the foward edge.  Then the door opening in flight is a non-issue just like most other comparative aircraft.  This is a poorly designed door from many perspectives.  Dealing with it on a windy day is not going to be fun, just hope the wind does not rip it off the hinges.  It is just too bad that Vans won't do the research and spend the money to improve some of the deficiences with this model.  (Don't get me going on the list!)

Bill

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Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC

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