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stratobee
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles
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 Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:14 am Post subject: Replacing seats.. |
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Hi.
One of my goals in the future is to lighten my aircraft and clean her up significantly.
One of the things I want to do is to replace the seats for something better and lighter. The low 50's backrest with no support for the head and the midriff only seat belt are not very safe and rather uncomfortable as well. I would like to replace them for a harness seat and something more snug and robust.
So I was looking at these super light, ultra strong car racing seats. What are the legalities of bolting those onto the sliding frame of the seats in there now? Is this a modification I could do, or do seats have to be certified and all the rigmarole involved with that? 337?
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moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:10 am Post subject: Replacing seats.. |
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Adam,
Looked around myself several years ago at the seat situation, and other than new upholstry (from a legal standpoint) you are pretty much stuck with what you have, unless of course you want to go "Experimental" and then insurance is about impossible.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
> Subject: Replacing seats..
| Quote: | From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com
Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 06:14:41 -0700
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
--> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Hi.
One of my goals in the future is to lighten my aircraft and clean her up significantly.
One of the things I want to do is to replace the seats for something better and lighter. The low backrest and the 50's midriff seat belt I would like to replace for a harness and something more snug and safe. So I was looking at these super light, ultra strong car racing seats. What are the legalities of bolting those onto the sliding frame of the seats in there now?
Is this a modification I could do, or do seats have to be certified and all the rigmarole involved with that? 337?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339742#339742
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[quote]
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cschuerm(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: Replacing seats.. |
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Moe Mills wrote:
| Quote: |
Looked around myself several years ago at the seat situation, and
other than new upholstry (from a legal standpoint) you are pretty
much stuck with what you have, unless of course you want to go
"Experimental" and then insurance is about impossible.
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Sorry, but you can't just "go experimental" on a certified aircraft.
You can re license as "experimental R&D" or "experimental exhibition",
but either effectively renders the aircraft useless for general
operation. Both categories come with extreme operational limitations.
Totally different thing than "experimental, amateur built" where you can
do pretty much anything you want.
chris
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stratobee
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing seats.. |
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How about getting a one-off STC? It's nuts that they would prohibit something that's much safer than the old seats that are in there now.
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tylorhall(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: Replacing seats.. |
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Adam,
Commander-aero.com has the cross the shoulder seat belts as a field approval.
I have seen dual over shoulder seat belts in some aircraft like the 500B that are used by the forest service. That too may be a field approval and can be done.
Recovering the seats with the new foam goes a long way to contort.
Tylor Hall
On May 13, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Chris wrote:
| Quote: |
Moe Mills wrote:
>
> Looked around myself several years ago at the seat situation, and other than new upholstry (from a legal standpoint) you are pretty much stuck with what you have, unless of course you want to go "Experimental" and then insurance is about impossible.
Sorry, but you can't just "go experimental" on a certified aircraft. You can re license as "experimental R&D" or "experimental exhibition", but either effectively renders the aircraft useless for general operation. Both categories come with extreme operational limitations. Totally different thing than "experimental, amateur built" where you can do pretty much anything you want.
chris
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stratobee
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing seats.. |
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Actually, it seems like the FAA have agreed that shoulder harnesses are a safety benefit and can be allowed as minor modification on aircrafts made before 1978.
http://150cessna.tripod.com/c150shoulderharnesses.html
It states that as long as no alteration to the structure is done (drilling, welding) then it's OK. In my case the belts attach to the bottom seat structure itself and are not in any way attached to the airframe, so adding a harness using the same attachment points should be possible.
That just leaves the seat.
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yourtcfg(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: Replacing seats.. |
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HI ADAM.Welome to the wonderful world of the FAA, where their motto "We're not happy, until your not happy" prevails. You will soon find out that the FAA is nothing about safety, they are all about control!! jb
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rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject: Replacing seats.. |
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Hi Adam,
Buddy Windham (lurking on this list), had some really nice mods carried out on the pilot seats in his 560E...higher backs etc etc.
He may be able to recall what processes he went through to get those certified (I think through Commander Aero at Dayton).
Captain Windham...?
Cheers
Russell
On 14/05/2011, at 9:05 AM, stratobee wrote:
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blorber(at)southwestcirru
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: Replacing seats.. |
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We got a field approval for 400CH (or whatever the new n-number is) for
4-point harnesses on the front two seats. They consisted of a lap-belt
and a centrifugal lock on the shoulder belts that hid in the pocket on
the seat back. Very comfortable, useable, and clean.
Unfortunately, I don't have the manufacturer or any of the paperwork
anymore.
AFA the FAA rules preventing safety...shocking, isn't it?
Brock
stratobee wrote:
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