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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
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 Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
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Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to shield the fuel system from engine heat.
Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of s/s steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The clamps expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes, so no cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be seen, the carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by Graham) makes the factory heat shields difficult to use.
All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve and heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) – see photo. Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK (don’t recall name, and I am away from my file). I also use the heat sleeve on oil lines running very close to the engine.
/////
Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied by the factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less than 0.5 mm. The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in mind that gasoline has very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
(I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it did not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
Regards
Svein
LN-SKJ
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Brian Davies
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
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I have been following this thread and waiting to see if exhaust wrapping will be mentioned as a solution to high under-cowl temperatures. The wrapping of exhaust systems has always been frowned upon in the certified world, supposedly because it causes cracking and corrosion of the system. Modern exhaust wrap is highly effective and I am not aware of any negative effects. It is also approved by the LAA on a number of Rotax installations.
My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing engine where the heat reduction is quite dramatic.
Any comments?
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen
Sent: 10 May 2011 21:39
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to shield the fuel system from engine heat.
Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of s/s steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The clamps expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes, so no cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be seen, the carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by Graham) makes the factory heat shields difficult to use.
All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve and heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) – see photo. Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK (don’t recall name, and I am away from my file). I also use the heat sleeve on oil lines running very close to the engine.
/////
Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied by the factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less than 0.5 mm. The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in mind that gasoline has very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
(I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it did not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
Regards
Svein
LN-SKJ
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
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Hi Brian,
Only comment is what you mentioned, it has been thought to cause cracking specifically in the case of Europa installations,
Pete
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Davies
Sent: 11 May 2011 08:42
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
I have been following this thread and waiting to see if exhaust wrapping will be mentioned as a solution to high under-cowl temperatures. The wrapping of exhaust systems has always been frowned upon in the certified world, supposedly because it causes cracking and corrosion of the system. Modern exhaust wrap is highly effective and I am not aware of any negative effects. It is also approved by the LAA on a number of Rotax installations.
My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing engine where the heat reduction is quite dramatic.
Any comments?
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen
Sent: 10 May 2011 21:39
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to shield the fuel system from engine heat.
Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of s/s steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The clamps expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes, so no cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be seen, the carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by Graham) makes the factory heat shields difficult to use.
All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve and heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) – see photo. Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK (don’t recall name, and I am away from my file). I also use the heat sleeve on oil lines running very close to the engine.
/////
Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied by the factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less than 0.5 mm. The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in mind that gasoline has very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
(I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it did not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
Regards
Svein
LN-SKJ | Quote: | | [b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List[b] |
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05/10/11
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:21 am Post subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
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Back in the mid '90s, early adopters experimented with heat wrap and claimed reduced noise and marginal performance improvements (subjective). This was followed by a rash of exhaust pipe fractures that were attributed to the heat wrap and everybody dropped it like a, well, hot exhaust.
It was subsequently discovered that the first batch of (classic) exhausts had been made out of mild steel and not the stainless steel specified, so it is possible that this could have been a contributing factor.
I have a motorcycle fitted with a titanium exhaust. It is so thin that at night I can see the road ahead by the cosy red glow. This system is incredibly light and ridiculously resilient and I wonder if it would be a suitable material for a bespoke Europa system - combined with heat wrap?
Nigel
On 11/05/2011 08:42, Brian Davies wrote: [quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I have been following this thread and waiting to see if exhaust wrapping will be mentioned as a solution to high under-cowl temperatures. The wrapping of exhaust systems has always been frowned upon in the certified world, supposedly because it causes cracking and corrosion of the system. Modern exhaust wrap is highly effective and I am not aware of any negative effects. It is also approved by the LAA on a number of Rotax installations.
My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing engine where the heat reduction is quite dramatic.
Any comments?
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen
Sent: 10 May 2011 21:39
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to shield the fuel system from engine heat.
Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of s/s steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The clamps expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes, so no cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be seen, the carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by Graham) makes the factory heat shields difficult to use.
All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve and heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) – see photo. Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK (don’t recall name, and I am away from my file). I also use the heat sleeve on oil lines running very close to the engine.
/////
Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied by the factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less than 0.5 mm. The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in mind that gasoline has very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
(I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it did not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
Regards
Svein
LN-SKJ
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
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Morning Nigel. You are mostly right, but the first ones were stainless. Then one cracked on a factory aircraft (after take off at Sywell I remember). Shortly after that the
first exhaust manufacturer changed to mild steel without telling anyone. Next problem was because of the very high EGT the mild steel burned through and another rash of failures developed.Eventually their insurers got expensive and nervous about anything to do with aircraft. They stopped supplying exhausts and a new manufacturer had to be found in a hurry. Not easy!
imho the problem with the early stainless ones was that the stainless steel was too thick, excess weight, vibration loads and result, cracks. Some of we early builders supported the heavy aft end of the box and had no problems.
Titanium would certainly fix it but the price might make one's eyes water.
Graham
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:18:59
Subject: Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Back in the mid '90s, early adopters experimented with heat wrap and claimed reduced noise and marginal performance improvements (subjective). This was followed by a rash of exhaust pipe fractures that were attributed to the heat wrap and everybody dropped it like a, well, hot exhaust.
It was subsequently discovered that the first batch of (classic) exhausts had been made out of mild steel and not the stainless steel specified, so it is possible that this could have been a contributing factor.
I have a motorcycle fitted with a titanium exhaust. It is so thin that at night I can see the road ahead by the cosy red glow. This system is incredibly light and ridiculously resilient and I wonder if it would be a suitable material for a bespoke Europa system - combined with heat wrap?
Nigel
On 11/05/2011 08:42, Brian Davies wrote: [quote]
I have been following this thread and waiting to see if exhaust wrapping will be mentioned as a solution to high under-cowl temperatures. The wrapping of exhaust systems has always been frowned upon in the certified world, supposedly because it causes cracking and corrosion of the system. Modern exhaust wrap is highly effective and I am not aware of any negative effects. It is also approved by the LAA on a number of Rotax installations.
My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing engine where the heat reduction is quite dramatic.
Any comments?
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen
Sent: 10 May 2011 21:39
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to shield the fuel system from engine heat.
Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of s/s steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The clamps expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes, so no cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be seen, the carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by Graham) makes the factory heat shields difficult to use.
All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve and heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) – see photo. Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK (don’t recall name, and I am away from my file). I also use the heat sleeve on oil lines running very close to the engine.
/////
Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied by the factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less than 0.5 mm. The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in mind that gasoline has very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
(I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it did not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
Regards
Svein
LN-SKJ
http://www.matronics.com/con================
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
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Hello Graham. I just hate it when facts get in the way of a good story  Thanks for the correction.
Nigel
On 11/05/2011 11:06, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: [quote] Morning Nigel. You are mostly right, but the first ones were stainless. Then one cracked on a factory aircraft (after take off at Sywell I remember). Shortly after that the
first exhaust manufacturer changed to mild steel without telling anyone. Next problem was because of the very high EGT the mild steel burned through and another rash of failures developed.Eventually their insurers got expensive and nervous about anything to do with aircraft. They stopped supplying exhausts and a new manufacturer had to be found in a hurry. Not easy!
imho the problem with the early stainless ones was that the stainless steel was too thick, excess weight, vibration loads and result, cracks. Some of we early builders supported the heavy aft end of the box and had no problems.
Titanium would certainly fix it but the price might make one's eyes water.
Graham
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:18:59
Subject: Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Back in the mid '90s, early adopters experimented with heat wrap and claimed reduced noise and marginal performance improvements (subjective). This was followed by a rash of exhaust pipe fractures that were attributed to the heat wrap and everybody dropped it like a, well, hot exhaust.
It was subsequently discovered that the first batch of (classic) exhausts had been made out of mild steel and not the stainless steel specified, so it is possible that this could have been a contributing factor.
I have a motorcycle fitted with a titanium exhaust. It is so thin that at night I can see the road ahead by the cosy red glow. This system is incredibly light and ridiculously resilient and I wonder if it would be a suitable material for a bespoke Europa system - combined with heat wrap?
Nigel
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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