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urgent: 912S ignition failure

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terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Hi Remi,



I am afraid I missed the earlier parts of this thread, but I just wanted

to let you know we had loose wires that would normally be connected (the

insulation held the broken pieces in contact), and would only break in

the presence of vibration, or when we pulled on the wire.  We just ran

the engine at idle and gently pulled on each wire that came into the

ignition bundle until the engine idle stumbled.



If someone already suggested this, sorry for the duplication.



Regards,

Terry



--

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Not jumping on the band wagon but I'm having a similar problem. I discovered sometime back this vibration that continued to get worse. After many attempts at balancing the carbs and the sensenich carbon prop I finally changed back to the warp drive 3 blade. I then had it balanced but It was perfect. I balanced the carbs again and they we're almost perfect. Still at 2800 to 3000 static on the ground theres this annoying vibration. Maybe more than annoying as I don't want to fly with it. Sitting at an idle static I decided to do a 1800 to 2000 RPM mag check and noticed a smooth left / A mag but a rough running right B mag. Spent days checking all the obvious stuff. Plugs, wires with a timing light and still nothing. At this point I've had two Rotax certified mechanics and we still have not solved the problem. Trying to isolate the source we switched the 4 prong plugs going into the mag's and the vibration was still on the B side. Finally we switched the 6 prong plugs going into the coils and the vibration switched to the A or left mag on check. Called Lockwood and they believe it's not in the coils but what else could it be? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm not only frustrated but like Remi I wish I had a thirsty Lycoming hanging on the front.  Rotax may be light and yes I know most swear by them but for me.... I just want to swear at it. 

Anyone working on trying the new UL power on the Europa.

Jeff R. 

N128LJ Gold Rush



On May 27, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Hi Remi,

 

 I am afraid I missed the earlier parts of this thread, but I just wanted

 to let you know we had loose wires that would normally be connected (the

 insulation held the broken pieces in contact), and would only break in

 the presence of vibration, or when we pulled on the wire.  We just ran

 the engine at idle and gently pulled on each wire that came into the

 ignition bundle until the engine idle stumbled.

 

 If someone already suggested this, sorry for the duplication.

 

 Regards,

 Terry

 

 --

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Jeff, I had a somewhat similar problem once too.  The wires to the ignition

module had broken internally.  Fortunately I was able to repair them as a

new ignition module was, I think, priced at about $US 800.



Then last year I experienced an intermittent "surging" of the engine.

Couldn't get more than 4,000 RPM or the engine would start cutting out.  I

checked all the usual suspects for problem areas and came up blank.  I then

had the finest Rotax minds in the business pour over the engine with their

computers and engine analyzers, etc.  They spent 4 weeks checking out the

entire engine, and swapping almost every accessory part, and guess what?

They could not determine the cause of the problem.  They gave up.



Rotax is a pretty good engine......when it runs as it should.  When it stops

running, God help you.  It is so complex and there are so few people around

who are capable of diagnosing problems, if any at all, that you're flat out

stuck.  I don't think I would buy another Rotax engine.



Garry Stout

--

cptimm(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Remi,



I had a similar problem early in 2007 on my early model 912 S. After doing 

all the tests you have already done on yours I had to remove the engine from 

the aircraft and take it to the local  (300 km away)  Rotax dealer for 

repairs.

It turned out to be a faulty stator assembly, due to some poor bedding of 

wire-bundles in epoxy, which had become brittle and allowing the wires to 

shorten out intermittently. The bill was over $ 1800.00,the engine had only 

330 hrs on it at the time. I sincerely hope, that this is not your problem.

Good luck.



Peter Timm





--

mau11(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Le 27/05/2011 22:10, Remi Guerner a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Mike,



 I have been working on the problem almost full time for the last ten days. I have not found any broken wire in the ignition system. I have ordered a new ignition module and will test it as soon as I get it.

 I will let you know what I find.

 Of course I regret the good old Lycoming of my previous plane: it was using a lot more fuel but was a lot more reliable and required a lot less maintenance time and money.

 Cheers

 Remi

 F-PGKL still grounded, courtesy of Rotax





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=341222#341222





Salut Rémi,
	


J'ai oublié de te le dire,

J'ai eu sur mon précédent moteur des problèmes de démarrage dûs à 

l'allumage, j'étais persuadé que cela venait d'un des boitiers Ducati, 

mais en fait les boitiers n'avaient rien, cela venait du stator de 

génération.

Qui avait un de ses circuits "intermittent".

A voir



-- 



         --|--

--------(*)--------

Michel AUVRAY

mau11(at)free.fr

duanefamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Garry,

    

   I had the pleasure of meeting you and coming over your house to see your build during SNF back around 2002. I brought the beer. LOL. I really enjoyed our talk and it was then I decided to make my Europa purchase.

    

   In all the times I have been on this forum I have never heard anyone speak negatively about of the Rotax. It was as if it was sacrosanct and no one was to speak ill of the almighty Rotax. I guess I don't feel so bad going with the Jabiru. I am sure all engines have their idiosyncrasies.....I just hope mine are more reasonably priced.

    

   Mike Duane

   Redding, CA

 

 

   

 

 

   --

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Gentlemen,

 My years are going to show, but we must understand and be consistent in our  opinions.

 I have found it necessary to be fair.  I hate them all.

  

 Rotax is expensive, and has two carbs, two ignitions so multiple  troubleshooting problems and high prices.

 Jabiru has cooling and induction problems, must run at 2700 rpm or  about 85% power to equal a 914 at 75%, and can't swing a prop bigger than  64 inches, (not a problem for the Europa) but is less expensive but needs a  bigger gas tank.

 Lycomings are heavy, leaky, inefficient, in hot cliamates like Florida,  and over temp the cylinder near the valves requiring top overhauls,

 Continentals need a drip pan at 200 hours, have similar problems like the  Lyc. and all one has to do is google lycoming or continental engine problems to  see there is no perfect engine.

 Neither the Lyc or Cont make it beyond about 500 hours down here without  cylinders coming off for repair.

  

 Car engines sound great, but airplanes need torque so you need a reduction  unit (duh, another Rotax type problem).  You are doing engine development  rather than flying many times.  The day they make a car engine that can  start up, idle out of the neighborhood and go full throttle for 15 minutes  then pull a 3000 pound trailer at 80 miles an hour for 4 hours within  500 rpm of max and do that every day for 80,000 miles, I'll put it in an  airplane. because that is what we ask of an airplane engine.

  

 So I prefer to be consistent, I hate them all equally. 

  

 Have a great weekend,

 Bud

  

  

 ---

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Well said Bud. Just a little frustrated up here. We'll keep looking.

 N128LJ Gold Rush 

  

On May 28, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:

[quote]Gentlemen,

My years are going to show, but we must understand and be consistent in our opinions.

I have found it necessary to be fair.  I hate them all.

 

Rotax is expensive, and has two carbs, two ignitions so multiple troubleshooting problems and high prices.

Jabiru has cooling and induction problems, must run at 2700 rpm or about 85% power to equal a 914 at 75%, and can't swing a prop bigger than 64 inches, (not a problem for the Europa) but is less expensive but needs a bigger gas tank.

Lycomings are heavy, leaky, inefficient, in hot cliamates like Florida, and over temp the cylinder near the valves requiring top overhauls,

Continentals need a drip pan at 200 hours, have similar problems like the Lyc. and all one has to do is google lycoming or continental engine problems to see there is no perfect engine.

Neither the Lyc or Cont make it beyond about 500 hours down here without cylinders coming off for repair.

 

Car engines sound great, but airplanes need torque so you need a reduction unit (duh, another Rotax type problem).  You are doing engine development rather than flying many times.  The day they make a car engine that can start up, idle out of the neighborhood and go full throttle for 15 minutes then pull a 3000 pound trailer at 80 miles an hour for 4 hours within 500 rpm of max and do that every day for 80,000 miles, I'll put it in an airplane. because that is what we ask of an airplane engine.

 

So I prefer to be consistent, I hate them all equally. 

 

Have a great weekend,

Bud

 

 

---

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Bud, 



You said it all in a nutshell. I have been lucky I guess in not having had a serious problem with my 912s, and that probably applies to 95% of all 9xx users. I am also fortunate in having access to two Rotax experts within easy driving distance, should I need any help. One is a Rotax agent and the other is a busy flying school using Rotax powered Katanas. The Canadian main agent in BC has also been very helpful, and the Rotax website with many videos (subscription required) explaining how to balance the carbs etc. etc. is extremely useful.

Maybe some day someone will come up with a breakthrough in battery technology, and all these inefficient combustion engines will end up in the garbage overnight.

Have a nice Sunday,

Karl



From: budyerly(at)msn.com

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: urgent: 912S ignition failure

Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:41:53 -0400



           Gentlemen,

 My years are going to show, but we must understand and be consistent in our  opinions.

 I have found it necessary to be fair.  I hate them all.

  

 Rotax is expensive, and has two carbs, two ignitions so multiple  troubleshooting problems and high prices.

 Jabiru has cooling and induction problems, must run at 2700 rpm or  about 85% power to equal a 914 at 75%, and can't swing a prop bigger than  64 inches, (not a problem for the Europa) but is less expensive but needs a  bigger gas tank.

 Lycomings are heavy, leaky, inefficient, in hot cliamates like Florida,  and over temp the cylinder near the valves requiring top overhauls,

 Continentals need a drip pan at 200 hours, have similar problems like the  Lyc. and all one has to do is google lycoming or continental engine problems to  see there is no perfect engine.

 Neither the Lyc or Cont make it beyond about 500 hours down here without  cylinders coming off for repair.

  

 Car engines sound great, but airplanes need torque so you need a reduction  unit (duh, another Rotax type problem).  You are doing engine development  rather than flying many times.  The day they make a car engine that can  start up, idle out of the neighborhood and go full throttle for 15 minutes  then pull a 3000 pound trailer at 80 miles an hour for 4 hours within  500 rpm of max and do that every day for 80,000 miles, I'll put it in an  airplane. because that is what we ask of an airplane engine.

  

 So I prefer to be consistent, I hate them all equally. 

  

 Have a great weekend,

 Bud

  

  

 ---

europapa

Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 63

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: Re: urgent: 912S ignition failure

If our Europas would only have a bigger tank, I would prefer this:



http://www.pbsvb.com/dlt_motor_tps100.php



Or has somebody build wing tip tanks already? 



Have a nice Sunday



Juergen

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:04 am Post subject: urgent: 912S ignition failure

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Karl,

 Education is the key, as I have found out the hard way.

  

 Batteries are great if you like polluting third world countries and china  with heavy metals.

 Plants like CO2.  Our bodies need it for respiration.

  Think of the children Karl.



  

 Just kidding,

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

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