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Filser Radio problems

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davidlewendon(at)me.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject: Filser Radio problems

I have a Filser ATR 600 VHF Com plus a separate Filser Mode S  

Transponder. I am experiencing difficulties in transmitting and  

although I can hear various ATC centers from a reasonable distance of  

20 to 30 miles out I cannot get them to hear me until I am only 6 or 7  

miles away.



My Europa does not have an external antenna and having looked in the  

rear fuselage section there appear to be two coax type cables. One  

goes to a black metal box approximately 4 inches long and 3/4 of an  

inch square that is fixed to the upper side of the fuselage (about the  

ten o clock position). The other cable disappears into the tail section.



There is a small unpainted metal antenna about 2 inches long  

protruding from the lower fuselage but this must be too short for a  

VHF radio and does not have the small ball on the end like a  

transponder aerial would have.



BTW, I have not checked the transmit button yet for a good connection.



Any clues pleas?



Thanks



David

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: Filser Radio problems

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  David,

 Perhaps it is best to check the following in this order for a field  check:

 First check and ohm out your radio connections and coax attachment to your  antenna.  Check out the coax that the center wire and outer shield have no  continuity.  

 If the antenna is buried in the rear, do the following:

  

 Build a 10 foot coax cable jumper.  Install your coax jumper lead  to the radio back.  

 Beg, borrow or buy a standard VHF metal antenna with a ground  plane, or make a ground plane from aluminum and bolt it too the antenna and  connect to the ground.  Place the antenna on a bench

 near the aircraft.  OR

  

 I have an Advanced Aircraft Electronics VHF - 5T spare in my shop for  this purpose. 

 The coax connector attached to this antenna needs no ground plane and is  made from carbon fiber and wire.  It is just like the tape antenna in  principal, but I have yet to find a better easier to install antenna, but  that is an opinion, because all properly built and  installed antennas should be nearly equal.  

  

 To best test your integrity of the com system.

 If the intercom is loud and clear then the intercom to jacks are OK.

 The newer radios have transmit key indicators as does a  separate intercom which may also be in your system.  Press the mic  button and look.  If the transmit indicator appears, the hookup is OK as  the mic hi position is connecting to ground for the transmit signal.  If  the ground used for the mic button is hooked up outside the back of the radio,  you may have a poor and noisy ground or ground loop.

 Please check your electrical continuity and circuit output using the  temporary antenna by pushing the com and  giving a test count and observe  the power meter then check your primary antenna.  If you don't have a power  meter, don't despair. compare the output transmission using a handheld or  other nearby radio.

 If it is the antenna, it is time to go shopping.

  

 Again if the antenna is the problem, the fastest, easiest to  install, high performance antenna is the VHF 5T available through Aircraft  Spruce.

 An excellent position if you have no access to the tail, is to install it  just behind the baggage bay as close to vertical as possible.  Works great  even with a little curve.

  

 As for the short antenna, that is most likely your Transponder  antenna.

  

 Again, test its continuity and ground plane as the short antenna has a  ground plane requirement for the whip antenna of about an eight inch disk.   Your ground plane may not have been installed.   

 Again Advanced Aircraft Electronics has an antenna if yours does not  work.

  

 The small box may be a radio switching box.  It may have been used for  Nav and Glide slope switching if there is a horizontal antenna or a com  switcher if the ELT antenna was also hooked to the com antenna.  Hard to  tell without tracing out your com and reading the part number on the box.

  

  

  

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly

Custom Flight Creations, Inc.

www.customflightcreations.com

(813)  653-4989

 [quote]   ---

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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: Filser Radio problems

David-



I had an identical problem a few years ago.  I had blown the final in my transmitter.  The final transistor is relatively powerful and what permits you to transmit some distance.  I was getting about 2 milliwatts output from the driver and could be heard for about 3 miles.  Replacing the final transistor was the fix.  If you can beg, borrow, or steal one, a wattmeter with a dummy load will tell you if that is the case.  Simpler than all the testing, if you can get to the back of the transmitter, put an SWR bridge in the line.  If it is an antenna problem, the SWR will be quite high, probably over 2/1.  If you know someone who is a radio amateur they may be able to help you with both tests.  They are very simple and can be done in five minutes or so.  Failing that, I'd construct a tape dipole as described in the manual and hang it outside the plane.  If you can both transmit and receive off it, the antenna in the airplane is your problem.  The tape dipole aft of the baggage compartment will work just fine if you need to replace the antenna.  



Jim Puglise, Punta Gorda, FL 

   

---

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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:16 am Post subject: Filser Radio problems

On 05/28/2011 11:09 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   First check and ohm out your radio connections and coax attachment to

 your antenna.  Check out the coax that the center wire and outer shield

 have no continuity. 


	


All too complicated and not necessary. Just borrow an SWR-meter, and see

what it says. Broken wires, shorts, resonance problems, everything shows

up with this simple test.



There are many radio amateurs, find one and he probably loves to look at

the installation of a real airplane.



If there is anything else than the Europa recommended halve wave antenna

in the tail closeout, I would scrap it and arrange such a halve wave

antenna. Contradictory to common believe fed by marketroids, there is

nothing that beats a simple halve wave dipole for this application. No

antenna can have any gain over a dipole without introducing losses in

some area's. It is just like a light bulb, any gain you derive with

reflectors and lenses will introduce dark spot in other directions. A

half wave is close to omnidirectional and only has two small "dark

spots" straight up and straight down. Fortunately if you are overhead an

ATC facility the "dark spot" is of no consequence as you are pretty

close anyway.

There is another reason to stay with a dipole: A dipole has a certain

impedance and it is exactly this impedance (50 ohms) that became the

standard for the coax and output of the transmitter. Of course this is

no coincidence as the manufacturers know that the dipole is the best

solution. Other antennas might have a different impedance, need a

matching network (often built in and invisible to the user), and often

this matching network (consisting of coils and capacitors) breaks down,

causing all sorts of problems.



Just my 2 cents,



Frans

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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: Filser Radio problems

On 05/28/2011 11:40 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Simpler than all the testing, if you can get to the back of the

 transmitter, put an SWR bridge in the line.

 If you know

 someone who is a radio amateur they may be able to help you with both

 tests.


	


Oops. I should read the entire list before answering something.



Frans

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davidlewendon(at)me.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: Filser Radio problems

Thanks for all the tips folks.

I will track down an SWR meter and check out the system.

I will let you know how I get on.

BW

David

On 29 mai 11, at 12:13, Frans Veldman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 >

 On 05/28/2011 11:09 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:

> First check and ohm out your radio connections and coax attachment to

> your antenna.  Check out the coax that the center wire and outer  

> shield

> have no continuity.

 All too complicated and not necessary. Just borrow an SWR-meter, and  

 see

 what it says. Broken wires, shorts, resonance problems, everything  

 shows

 up with this simple test.

 There are many radio amateurs, find one and he probably loves to  

 look at

 the installation of a real airplane.

 If there is anything else than the Europa recommended halve wave  

 antenna

 in the tail closeout, I would scrap it and arrange such a halve wave

 antenna. Contradictory to common believe fed by marketroids, there is

 nothing that beats a simple halve wave dipole for this application. No

 antenna can have any gain over a dipole without introducing losses in

 some area's. It is just like a light bulb, any gain you derive with

 reflectors and lenses will introduce dark spot in other directions. A

 half wave is close to omnidirectional and only has two small "dark

 spots" straight up and straight down. Fortunately if you are  

 overhead an

 ATC facility the "dark spot" is of no consequence as you are pretty

 close anyway.

 There is another reason to stay with a dipole: A dipole has a certain

 impedance and it is exactly this impedance (50 ohms) that became the

 standard for the coax and output of the transmitter. Of course this is

 no coincidence as the manufacturers know that the dipole is the best

 solution. Other antennas might have a different impedance, need a

 matching network (often built in and invisible to the user), and often

 this matching network (consisting of coils and capacitors) breaks  

 down,

 causing all sorts of problems.

 Just my 2 cents,

 Frans

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: Filser Radio problems

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->   

Guys, 

I  guess I really have a dumb SWR meter in comparison to yours.  It allows me to measure if my antenna is  tuned to the freq (all our antennas bought on the market are tuned, only  handmade ones aren’t and they are close (probably within 4-5% if you follow the  instructions). 

  

Radio  systems work best when the antenna system's impedance 

matches  the transmitter's output impedance as closely as possible. 

The  meter's standing wave ratio (SWR) function helps you trim your  antenna 

to  the precise length you need for the maximum transmitted  power. 

  

The  meter's field strength function helps you position your antenna  for 

the  best coverage and determine the effectiveness of changes you make  to 

your  antenna, antenna cable, and transmitter.   We already know the tail is a superb place in the  Europa. 

  

If  you have a radio that you suspect a low power or poor transmit but can receive  OK, it seems that one can check with an SWR but you will still have to get  another antenna and compare if the installed antenna is not working.    Plus, you must get to the back of  the radio and hook up a jumper get the meter hooked in anyway.  The SWR is not going to tell me anything  other than good or bad on the installed antenna, so get a good antenna off the  shelf and compare is what works fast and easy.  

  

Finally,  if you suspect the radio is bad, (you should have bench checked it, but what the  heck¸ it is a new radio and my experience in 12 panels they all worked), so if  you suspect the radio, you have to bench check it anyway.  An Ohm meter will tell you if you have a  bad cable and the quick disconnect com lead at your panel back is your junction  to the spare antenna and you have your quick and dirty  check. 

  

Check  your dials if you want, but it isn’t going to be any faster.  That’s why I have the spare antenna and  build my panels to pop out fast.  My  com 25 pin D sub connection from the panel to the airframe  can be hooked to a jack for a separate  com check in minutes right on the bench.   By opening up the firewall access hole, and hooking to the backup antenna  is the quickest way to satisfaction. 

  

Regards, 

Bud

 [quote]   ---

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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:14 am Post subject: Filser Radio problems

On 05/31/2011 01:57 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I guess I really have a dumb SWR meter in comparison to yours.


	


No, any SWR will do.



 	  Quote: 	
		   It

 allows me to measure if my antenna is tuned to the freq


	


That's one of the things it can do. If the cable is shorted or broken,

the impedance will show up as zero or infinite ohms, so it will display

a severely out of tune situation.



 	  Quote: 	
		   If you have a radio that you suspect a low power or poor transmit but

 can receive OK, it seems that one can check with an SWR but you will

 still have to get another antenna and compare if the installed antenna

 is not working.


	


You don't have to do that, if the SWR shows up OK, you can be pretty

sure that the antenna is working and the cable is OK.



Frans

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