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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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 Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
James Cowl
Metal Plenum (home built)
New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OATs are in the low 80s running about 23/2300, 3,000. The CHTs are being driven up by the high OATs to mid 390s.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4 inlet with a smooth ramp down to the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9s with James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a Niagara unit but I dont see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the rear baffle area but again I dont see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum Significant Temp Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum Significant Temp Issues
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CC21E0.7BC041D0[/img]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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Robin,
The first thing that comes to mind is to add some outlet area. Maybe a louver under the oil cooler?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
[quote]
After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
· IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
· James Cowl
· Metal Plenum (home built)
· New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
· Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OAT’s are in the low 80’s running about 23/2300, 3,000’. The CHT’s are being driven up by the high OAT’s to mid 390’s.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4” inlet with a smooth ramp down to the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9’s with James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a Niagara unit but I don’t see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the rear baffle area but again I don’t see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum – Significant Temp Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum – Significant Temp Issues
[img][/img]
[b]
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panamared505(at)brier.net
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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I think you might be getting turbulent airflow through the oil cooler, maybe too many turns for the airflow. As I recall after 17 degrees the airflow will seperate and go turbulent.
Bob
| Quote: |
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OATs are in the low 80s running about 23/2300, 3,000. The CHTs are being driven up by the high OATs to mid 390s.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the rear baffle area but again I dont see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
[img]cid:7475CCE5C1A84416AC6B78DE479C394E(at)greenbrier.k12.wv.us[/img]
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BGray(at)glasair.org
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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You might check your mag timing. A few degrees of advance will spike the temps.
Bruce
WWW.Glasair.org
--
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:06 pm Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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A couple of thoughts:
<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>I assume you have a 200+HP engine with perhaps high compression pistons. You are starting out with a oil cooling challenge as (my understanding) oil has higher cooling load on angle head engines as compared with heat removed via air passing around the cylinders.
<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>I notice you don’t have ceramic coating on your exhaust pipes. This helps move heat out of the cowl.
<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>While the size of the air hose feed to the cooler is a factor, the differential pressure across the oil cooler still tends to drive the actual air flow. Assuming you make no changes to increase the plenum pressure or reduce the aft lower cowl pressure, then you may consider moving the cooler to the lowest area possible and angling the air outflow more toward the exit ramp (which is smaller on the 8a than the  . On my 8A I have the cooler mounted on the firewall a little lower than what you have, airflow path is vertical (has a straight shot to the exit ramp).
<![if !supportLists]>4. <![endif]>The cooler itself has a lot to do with the how much differential pressure is needed to get a certain amount of air flow. Larger air passages allow more airflow but less oil cooling surface area, and vice versa. One model may work better than another in a particular plane. If you have opportunity to swap in a different oil cooler as a test, you may get some useful data.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A, 650 hrs, standard cowl and the old, small Positech cooler with fair results (temps always below 220).
RV-10, fuselage prep for paint, James cowl with big inlet rings, larger cowl exhaust cross section area, changed oil cooler and oil cooler mount, and shielding to stop the heat muff from dumping hot air onto the fuel pump.
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 2:38 PM
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>James Cowl
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Metal Plenum (home built)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OAT’s are in the low 80’s running about 23/2300, 3,000’. The CHT’s are being driven up by the high OAT’s to mid 390’s.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4” inlet with a smooth ramp down to the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9’s with James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a Niagara unit but I don’t see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the rear baffle area but again I don’t see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum – Significant Temp Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum – Significant Temp Issues
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CC2201.4EAC5410[/img]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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Robin,
We had this same issue several years ago with the same engine, and a larger oil cooler did NOT help. Ended up opening up the air out flow area on the bottom of the cowling. The nose gear cluster adds tremendous amounts of turbulence. Today I would say add outflow louvers to the bottom of the lower cowling. There are numerous others out there that have done that with great results.
Mike
From: robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:37:56 -0700
Subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com
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After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
James Cowl
Metal Plenum (home built)
New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OATs are in the low 80s running about 23/2300, 3,000. The CHTs are being driven up by the high OATs to mid 390s.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4 inlet with a smooth ramp down to the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9s with James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a Niagara unit but I dont see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the rear baffle area but again I dont see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum Significant Temp Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum Significant Temp Issues
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CC21E0.7BC041D0[/img]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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crowbotham(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:10 am Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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Hi Robin,
We had the same problemwith our 8A.
While we did not have the James cowl, we did try a larger oil coolerandoil cooler plenum with minimal improvement.
What workedfor us was the following: Mounted the Oil coolerdirectly to the rear of the baffling (std Van's mounting location)(made a gasket for the oil cooler to bafflingfor a good seal and prevent baffling crackingand installed a double set of louvers on the bottom of the cowling to increase air exit area. This worked for us.
It's worth while to note a couple of items: First thethe IO-360 installation is a tight fit and almost everyone wetalked with who had this config battled Oil temps; Secondalthough we had originally increased the air exit ramp size it still was insufficient without additional venting area andThird when ever the OAT was 90+ we lowered the takeoff deck angle and as soon as we got to cruise altitude went Lean of Peak on the mixture (it was always a joy to watch the oil temps drop).
I would suggestthe lowers installation firstfollowed by the directly mounting theoil cooler to the rear of your baffles (or atleast shortenting the oil cooler plenum and making it straight path.
Regrads,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (sold)
From: robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:37:56 -0700
Subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com
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After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
James Cowl
Metal Plenum (home built)
New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OATs are in the low 80s running about 23/2300, 3,000. The CHTs are being driven up by the high OATs to mid 390s.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4 inlet with a smooth ramp down to the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9s with James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a Niagara unit but I dont see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the rear baffle area but again I dont see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum Significant Temp Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum Significant Temp Issues
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CC21E0.7BC041D0[/img]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
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Thanks Chuck. We ordered the louvers yesterday. I think we will try that first before modifying the oil cooler assembly. We may also try some of Stan Sutterfields internal mods to the gear leg assembly.
Robin
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Charles Rowbotham
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 3:07 AM
To: RV List
Subject: RE: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
Hi Robin,
We had the same problemwith our 8A.
While we did not have the James cowl, we did try a larger oil coolerandoil cooler plenum with minimal improvement.
What workedfor us was the following: Mounted the Oil coolerdirectly to the rear of the baffling (std Van's mounting location)(made a gasket for the oil cooler to bafflingfor a good seal and prevent baffling crackingand installed a double set of louvers on the bottom of the cowling to increase air exit area. This worked for us.
It's worth while to note a couple of items: First thethe IO-360 installation is a tight fit and almost everyone wetalked with who had this config battled Oil temps; Secondalthough we had originally increased the air exit ramp size it still was insufficient without additional venting area andThird when ever the OAT was 90+ we lowered the takeoff deck angle and as soon as we got to cruise altitude went Lean of Peak on the mixture (it was always a joy to watch the oil temps drop).
I would suggestthe lowers installation firstfollowed by the directly mounting theoil cooler to the rear of your baffles (or atleast shortenting the oil cooler plenum and making it straight path.
Regrads,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (sold)
From: robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:37:56 -0700
Subject: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com (rv8-list(at)matronics.com); rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
James Cowl
Metal Plenum (home built)
New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OATs are in the low 80s running about 23/2300, 3,000. The CHTs are being driven up by the high OATs to mid 390s.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4 inlet with a smooth ramp down to the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9s with James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a Niagara unit but I dont see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the rear baffle area but again I dont see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum Significant Temp Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum Significant Temp Issues
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CC2292.6DC81320[/img]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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