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Flap cross tube problem

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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Hi all,

  

 The flap cross tube  appears to be about 2 inches too short, on my aircraft! I was hoping there would  be some end pieces placed onto FL15 to lengthen it, but unfortunately, the GE12  bearing and the bearing holder do not increase the length. There does not appear  to be any way it will be long enough to firmly grab the pins on both flaps,  though it might just be able to span the gap to barely reach the in-board ends  of the pins. The length of my flap cross tube (FL15) is 44 and one  half inches from end to end. Can someone tell me  what theirs measures? Anyone have this problem?

  

 Thank you,

  

 Greg  A050 

   [quote][b]

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

On 06/03/2011 02:04 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The flap cross tube appears to be about 2 inches too short, on my

 aircraft!


	


Please read the appropriate SB's and AD's on the Europa website. There

has been a batch with too short flap cross tubes (with almost a fatal

crash as a result) so it might well be that it applies to your situation

as well.



Frans

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Frans,



Good point, I could probably find the length info there.

I think my cross tube would just barely hang on, even on the ground.

Something will have to change for sure. I don't believe my flap is short,

either. It appears longer than at least one that I have seen on the Europa

owners website. Only about a quarter inch was shaved off the outboard side

flange, to allow the hinge arm to center between the dual hinge on the wing.

I will start looking through the SB's and AD's.



Thanks,



Greg





 	  Quote: 	
		  Please read the appropriate SB's and AD's on the Europa website. There has

been a batch with too short flap cross tubes 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  (with almost a fatal crash as a result) so it might well be that it applies

to your situation as well.
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  Frans

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

The SB pertaining to the flap drive tube does not discuss the length of the

tube, only the clearance between it and the root of the flap.

I still would like to know a few examples of others drive tube lengths for

the flap cross tube. That way, I could rule out wing pin location, flap

length, etc. before contacting the company. Just a few will do, and it

doesn't need to be real precise. Down to  (+/-) 1/4" or so will be fine.

Reporting in mm or cm (or whatever) is very welcome as well, I just need a

small representative sampling. Next time you are in the garage or hangar

with nothing much to do?



Thanks for all help,

Greg



_______________



 



Frans,



Good point, I could probably find the length info there.

I think my cross tube would just barely hang on, even on the ground.

Something will have to change for sure. I don't believe my flap is short,

either. It appears longer than at least one that I have seen on the Europa

owners website. Only about a quarter inch was shaved off the outboard side

flange, to allow the hinge arm to center between the dual hinge on the wing.

I will start looking through the SB's and AD's.



Thanks,



Greg





 	  Quote: 	
		  Please read the appropriate SB's and AD's on the Europa website. There 

has

been a batch with too short flap cross tubes 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  (with almost a fatal crash as a result) so it might well be that it 

applies

to your situation as well.
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  Frans

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Greg,



I agree with Frans reply.  

FWIW, my cross tube is 44 3/4 inches across with the bearings in place and works just fine.

Blue skies & tailwinds,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232

http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046

Europa Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117



 

 

On Jun 3, 2011, at 7:04, Greg Fuchs wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

Hi all,

 

The flap cross tube appears to be about 2 inches too short, on my aircraft! I was hoping there would be some end pieces placed onto FL15 to lengthen it, but unfortunately, the GE12 bearing and the bearing holder do not increase the length. There does not appear to be any way it will be long enough to firmly grab the pins on both flaps, though it might just be able to span the gap to barely reach the in-board ends of the pins. The length of my flap cross tube (FL15) is 44 and one half inches from end to end. Can someone tell me what theirs measures? Anyone have this problem?

 

Thank you,

 

Greg A050

g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Greg



Just measured the tube from Kit 576 and it is 44-5/8th long.  I am not aware

that there has been any variation in the tube lengths that Frans referred

to.



There is some variation in the fuselage width which I have never been able

to explain given the rigidity of the cockpit module.  For example Kit 576 is

some 12mm wider at the forward wing pins than I would expect.  I am about to

do the flap tube on 576 so I can let you know if this cross tube is long

enough for this aircraft.



Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours

Europa Club Mods Specialist

e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

The bare flap cross tube of kit 461 is 132 mm long.



Regards,

Jan de Jong

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Sorry - correction: the bare flap cross tube of kit 461 is 1132 mm long 

(a '1' was omitted in the earlier post).



Regards,

Jan de Jong

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

On Jun 3, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I still would like to know a few examples of others drive tube  

 lengths for

 the flap cross tube.


	


Greg,



I just measured the length of the flap drive tube on A194 and it is  

but 44 3/8"; nonetheless, having taken other measurements from the  

flaps (mounted on the wings, but the wings are de-mounted from the  

fuselage, I believe I have full-depth engagement of the pin into the  

bearings at the end of the drive tube.



Good Luck,



Fred

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Greg and Fred

Have just measured my flap drive cross tube as 44 5/8"but I have not

assembled the wings for at least a couple of years and so do not yet know

how snugly it is held by the wings.

JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327



--

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Thanks Ian,



At least a variation in fuselage width won't affect how the flap cross tube

mates up to the flaps, since all the dimensions appear to be referenced to

the wings and wing pins. It does look like my cross tube is similar to

others, so your memory serves you well.  I am not sure why some fuselages

are wider, either. When I put in my cockpit module, I used straps arount the

fuselage to suck it to the cp module. That was done to stay away from

putting rivet holes through the outer shell of the fuselage, which would

just be a lot of work filling them in again later.  Maybe that might create

a 'slightly' smaller fuselage width?

I would indeed be interested in how the flap tube fits on 576..



Regards,

Greg




Greg



Just measured the tube from Kit 576 and it is 44-5/8th long.  I am not aware

that there has been any variation in the tube lengths that Frans referred

to.



There is some variation in the fuselage width which I have never been able

to explain given the rigidity of the cockpit module.  For example Kit 576 is

some 12mm wider at the forward wing pins than I would expect.  I am about to

do the flap tube on 576 so I can let you know if this cross tube is long

enough for this aircraft.



Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours

Europa Club Mods Specialist

e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com

Patrick Tunney

Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 33

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Flap cross tube problem

I have measured the cross tube on kit 558 at 44 9/16 bearing to bearing. This is a snug fit between the pins. I remember cutting around an 1/8th of an inch of one or both ends to get the thing to fit properly. 



Your problem could be that the flaps are shorter in length at the flap root close-out, setting the flap drive pins further apart.



Pat Tunney

Kit 558

www.europaxs.com

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Pat,



It could indeed be. I think I have enough flap drive tube samples now. My

drive tube may be on the shorter side, but is well within the ballpark it

seems. If you get a chance to measure the flap closeout web (on the wing) to

drive pin metal base on the flap, I could still use a few more samplings..



Greg

 	  Quote: 	
		  Your problem could be that the flaps are shorter in length at the flap root

close-out, setting the flap drive pins further apart.
	




Pat Tunney

Kit 558

www.europaxs.com





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342124#342124

Troy Maynor

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 162

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Flap cross tube problem

Greg and those interested,



I remember using a trick to line up my flap cross tube hinges so very long ago. Don't recall every detail but it involved using AN bolts the size that the hinges pivot on, drilled holes in them lengthwise, the diameter of some twine or fishing line that was very strong, threading the line through the hinges and pulling it tight between both the flaps, letting the already reduxed hinges and spacers align themselves. Pack a good fillet of redux around the hinge mounts and left it to cure. Maybe you can figure out what else I did or come up with your own way. The key though was letting the hinges self align on the wet redux so that the string was absolutely straight. 



Troy Maynor

Europa Monowheel Classic #120

96 hours and climbing

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:47 am Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

I used strong aluminum angle bolted to the two flap hinge arms and the cross

tube hinges using 4 identically drilled brackets of the same stuff. If that

makes sense.  It held everything aligned while the glue was drying.  



Although not flying yet my digital level shows that the flaps have the same

angle and deploy identically throughout the range.



Will 



--

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube problem

Thanks for the info Troy,



There are sure a lot of great techniques out there!

Were the AN bolts cut into fairly short cross sections?



Regards,

Greg



--

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