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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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Ok, so, which has precedence?
AD 95-19-15 R1 is non-recurring. (Within the next 100 hours aircraft time-in-service (TIS) after November 17, 1995 (the effective date of AD 95–19–15), unless already done)
SB-185A says each 500 hours.
However: The compliance portion of the AD never references SB-185. The only reference relative to SB-185 is for procedures regarding inspection and repair.
ADs, especially this one, are really poorly written.
[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I thought someone would have a comment.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 1, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Ok, so, which has precedence?
AD 95-19-15 R1 is non-recurring. (Within the next 100 hours aircraft time-in-service (TIS) after November 17, 1995 (the effective date of AD 95–19–15), unless already done)
SB-185A says each 500 hours.
However: The compliance portion of the AD never references SB-185. The only reference relative to SB-185 is for procedures regarding inspection and repair.
ADs, especially this one, are really poorly written.
[b]
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lverrone(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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Yep
Sent from my iPad2
On Jun 11, 2011, at 6:54, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I thought someone would have a comment.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 1, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Gary Vogt <[url=mailto:teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com]teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | Ok, so, which has precedence?
AD 95-19-15 R1 is non-recurring. (Within the next 100 hours aircraft time-in-service (TIS) after November 17, 1995 (the effective date of AD 95–19–15), unless already done)
SB-185A says each 500 hours.
However: The compliance portion of the AD never references SB-185. The only reference relative to SB-185 is for procedures regarding inspection and repair.
ADs, especially this one, are really poorly written.
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
rums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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dsleepy47
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:34 am Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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The AD must be completed . Service bulletins are never mandatory for part 91 operations. The AD reference to the SB is simply giving you an acceptable way to
accomplish the requirements of the AD. As always you can apply for permission to use an alternative method of compliance and if approved you would never be required to perform the actions in the SB. Only the FAA can make actions mandatory. Whether it is prudent to perform SB 185A on a repetitive basis is a different question.
Deems
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:50:30 -0700
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I thought someone would have a comment.
[quote][b]
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dsleepy47
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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I agree. The AD is NOT recurring. If it was performed properly and the
wing spar clearance is correct and/or was shimmed properly if needed
then that doesn't change and the only thing beneficial would be to check
the spar bolt torque to see if they are secure. There have been some
bolt failures, possibly due to loose fitting wing spars which worked
back and forth and apparently loaded the bolts causing fatigue failure.
And of course bolts could have been over torqued. The AD came about
after American General replaced a bunch of wings that were hail damaged
at the factory sitting outside. Draw your own conclusions.
Cliff
On 6/11/2011 2:31 AM, Deems Herring wrote:
| Quote: | The AD must be completed . Service bulletins are never mandatory for
part 91 operations. The AD reference to the SB is simply giving you an
acceptable way to
accomplish the requirements of the AD. As always you can apply for
permission to use an alternative method of compliance and if approved
you would never be required to perform the actions in the SB. Only the
FAA can make actions mandatory. Whether it is prudent to perform SB 185A
on a repetitive basis is a different question.
Deems
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:50:30 -0700
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I thought someone wouldhave a
comment.
*
*
*
*
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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Thanks Deems,
But, I think you missed the point.
The AD only references SB-185 regarding checking the bolts with respect to plating, scoring, clearances, etc. It's a non-recurring AD.
The SB, in their compliance, says to check every 500 hours.
From: Deems Herring <dsleepy47(at)hotmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 2:31:14 AM
Subject: RE: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
The AD must be completed . Service bulletins are never mandatory for part 91 operations. The AD reference to the SB is simply giving you an acceptable way to
accomplish the requirements of the AD. As always you can apply for permission to use an alternative method of compliance and if approved you would never be required to perform the actions in the SB. Only the FAA can make actions mandatory. Whether it is prudent to perform SB 185A on a repetitive basis is a different question.
Deems
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:50:30 -0700
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I thought someone would have a comment.
[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:19 am Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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the plane I checked had 500 hours since the installing new bolts. I mic'd the bolts with a digital mic that goes to .0001. I compared them to new bolts. Even without the cad plating, the bolts measured the same.
Maybe someone should ask Ron.
From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 5:41:44 AM
Subject: Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com (flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com)>
I agree. The AD is NOT recurring. If it was performed properly and the wing spar clearance is correct and/or was shimmed properly if needed then that doesn't change and the only thing beneficial would be to check the spar bolt torque to see if they are secure. There have been some bolt failures, possibly due to loose fitting wing spars which worked back and forth and apparently loaded the bolts causing fatigue failure. And of course bolts could have been over torqued. The AD came about after American General replaced a bunch of wings that were hail damaged at the factory sitting outside. Draw your own conclusions.
Cliff
On 6/11/2011 2:31 AM, Deems Herring wrote:
[quote] The AD must be completed . Service bulletins are never mandatory for
part 91 operations. The AD reference to the SB is simply giving you an
acceptable way to
accomplish the requirements of the AD. As always you can apply for
permission to use an alternative method of compliance and if approved
you would never be required to perform the actions in the SB. Only the
FAA can make actions mandatory. Whether it is prudent to perform SB 185A
on a repetitive basis is a different question.
Deems
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:50:30 -0700
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I thought someone wouldhave
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:14 am Post subject: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A |
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I still don't have an answer.
The real question is: which has precedence over the other? Are ADs the final word? Or is the Service Bulletin the final word?
Maybe the real question is: what do you think takes precedence?
SB-185A: Within the next 100 hours of time in service or the next scheduled inspection, after accumulating 1000 hours total time in service of the bolts, then each 500 hours thereafter, accomplish the following:
AD 95-19-15 R1
What Must I Do To Address This Problem?
(e) To address this problem, you must do the following, unless already done:
- - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service Bulletin OR the original AD
Actions
(1) Inspect any inboard wing attach shoulder bolt for:
(i) Fretting, scoring, or wear (removal of the cad plating) to the shoulder of the bolt
(ii) A smooth machined area between the threads and the shoulder bevel of the shoulder bolt profile
Compliance
Within the next 100 hours aircraft time-in-service (TIS) after November 17, 1995 (the effective date of AD 95–19–15, unless already done
- - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service Bulletin OR the original AD
Procedures
Follow American General Aircraft Corporation Service Bulletin No. SB–185–A, Revision A, dated January 10, 2005.
Actions
(2) Replace any inboard wing attach shoulder bolt with wear (removal of the cad plating from the shoulder of the bolt)
or if the threads contact the shoulder of the bolt found during the inspections required in paragraph (e)(1) of this AD
[b]Compliance[/b]
Before further flight after the inspection required by paragraph (e)(1) of this AD
- - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service Bulletin OR the original AD
Procedures
Follow American General Aircraft Corporation Service Bulletin No. SB–185–A, Revision A, dated January 10, 2005.
Actions
(3) Inspect the mounting holes in the wing spar and the center section spar for enlargement or elongation that exceeds the specified dimension
[b]Compliance[/b]
Within the next 100 hours aircraft time-in-service (TIS) after November 17, 1995 (the effective date of AD 95–19–15), unless already done
- - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service Bulletin OR the original AD
Procedures
Follow American General Aircraft Corporation Service Bulletin No. SB–185–A, Revision A, dated January 10, 2005.
Actions
(4) Ream and bush any mounting hole that exceeds the specified dimension found during the inspection required by paragraph (e)(3) of this AD
Compliance
Before further flight after the inspection required by paragraph (e)(3) of this AD - - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service Bulletin OR the original AD
Procedures
Follow American General Aircraft Corporation Service Bulletin No. SB–185–A, Revision A, dated January 10, 2005
Actions
(5) Inspect the wing spar at the center spar clearance gap for excessive clearance, and shim the spar if excessive clearance is found
Compliance
Before further flight after the inspections required by paragraphs (e)(1) and (e)(3) of this AD
- - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service Bulletin OR the original AD
Procedures
Follow American General Aircraft Corporation Service Bulletin No. SB–185–A, Revision A, dated January 10, 2005.
Actions
(6) Do not install any wing attach shoulder bolt that has wear resulting in removal of the cad plating from the shoulder of the bolt
or if the threads contact the shoulder bevel of the shoulder bolt profile
Compliance
As of October 3, 2005 (the effective date of this AD)
Procedures
Not Applicable.
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 10:17:35 AM
Subject: Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
the plane I checked had 500 hours since the installing new bolts. I mic'd the bolts with a digital mic that goes to .0001. I compared them to new bolts. Even without the cad plating, the bolts measured the same.
Maybe someone should ask Ron.
From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 5:41:44 AM
Subject: Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com (flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com)>
I agree. The AD is NOT recurring. If it was performed properly and the wing spar clearance is correct and/or was shimmed properly if needed then that doesn't change and the only thing beneficial would be to check the spar bolt torque to see if they are secure. There have been some bolt failures, possibly due to loose fitting wing spars which worked back and forth and apparently loaded the bolts causing fatigue failure. And of course bolts could have been over torqued. The AD came about after American General replaced a bunch of wings that were hail damaged at the factory sitting outside. Draw your own conclusions.
Cliff
On 6/11/2011 2:31 AM, Deems Herring wrote:
| Quote: | The AD must be completed . Service bulletins are never mandatory for
part 91 operations. The AD reference to the SB is simply giving you an
acceptable way to
accomplish the requirements of the AD. As always you can apply for
permission to use an alternative method of compliance and if approved
you would never be required to perform the actions in the SB. Only the
FAA can make actions mandatory. Whether it is prudent to perform SB 185A
on a repetitive basis is a different question.
Deems
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:50:30 -0700
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I thought someone wouldhave
| Quote: | | http://www.maarget="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matroni --> |
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[quote][b]
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