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psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

My Zodiac is nearing inspection.  It should happen before OSH but that 

is in doubt.  It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do the 

inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.



I did weight and balance today.  My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru engine, 

center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, nav lights, 

strobes, no landing/taxi light.  The instrument panel features dual 

Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder.  Empty weight is 753.5 

with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on both wing leading 

edges).  My test flight calculated W & B with 24 gallons fuel and no 

baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of datum.



Yes, I know . . .  my passenger and baggage allowance calls for someone 

really small . . .  Maybe I should consider getting one leg amputated, 

but then how would I apply rudders?



Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual 

experience with flying XL's?



Paul

Camas, WA

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Paul,

     I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749 lb 

and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly that 

way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089 lb and 

338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the empty fuel CG 

becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never hit the forward CG 

limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far forward as possible to 

allow some baggage capacity.



     Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use the 

Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle cables at 

the TBI-40 carb.



On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My Zodiac is nearing inspection.  It should happen before OSH but that 

 is in doubt.  It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do the 

 inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.



 I did weight and balance today.  My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru 

 engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, nav 

 lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light.  The instrument panel features 

 dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder.  Empty weight is 

 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on both wing 

 leading edges).  My test flight calculated W & B with 24 gallons fuel 

 and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of datum.



 Yes, I know . . .  my passenger and baggage allowance calls for 

 someone really small . . .  Maybe I should consider getting one leg 

 amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?



 Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual 

 experience with flying XL's?



 Paul

 Camas, WA




	


-- 

Mark Hubelbank

NorthEast Monitoring

2 Clock Tower Place

Suite 555

Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA

mhubel(at)nemon.com

978-443-3955

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the information.

I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit and 

redesigned it.  I didn't like the way their design felt.  My change was 

to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms downward while 

lengthening them.   I also put the throttle controls and the carb heat 

control on the cabin side rather than on the instrument panel. This 

keeps all the throttle cables at about the same height as the 

carburetor.   My arms are not long enough to sit back in the seat and 

rest my hand on the throttle.  I am pleased with the smooth operation of 

my modified throttles.

It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday.  The only issue 

is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs.  I guess time will 

tell if this works or not.

Paul

On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Paul,

     I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749 lb 

 and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly that 

 way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089 lb and 

 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the empty fuel 

 CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never hit the forward 

 CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far forward as 

 possible to allow some baggage capacity.

     Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use 

 the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle 

 cables at the TBI-40 carb.

 On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

> 

>

> My Zodiac is nearing inspection.  It should happen before OSH but 

> that is in doubt.  It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do 

> the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.

>

> I did weight and balance today.  My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru 

> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, nav 

> lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light.  The instrument panel 

> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder.  Empty 

> weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on 

> both wing leading edges).  My test flight calculated W & B with 24 

> gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of datum.

>

> Yes, I know . . .  my passenger and baggage allowance calls for 

> someone really small . . .  Maybe I should consider getting one leg 

> amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?

>

> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual 

> experience with flying XL's?

>

> Paul

> Camas, WA

>

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Paul,

     Best of luck on the inspection. It should be a very straight 

forward process. The advantage of using the same airframe and engine 

others have. Let us know when you are ready to test it.



On 07/06/2011 10:36 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Mark,



 Thanks for the information.



 I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit and 

 redesigned it.  I didn't like the way their design felt.  My change 

 was to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms downward 

 while lengthening them.   I also put the throttle controls and the 

 carb heat control on the cabin side rather than on the instrument 

 panel. This keeps all the throttle cables at about the same height as 

 the carburetor.   My arms are not long enough to sit back in the seat 

 and rest my hand on the throttle.  I am pleased with the smooth 

 operation of my modified throttles.



 It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday.  The only 

 issue is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs.  I guess 

 time will tell if this works or not.



 Paul



 On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:

> 

>

> Paul,

>     I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749 

> lb and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly 

> that way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089 

> lb and 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the 

> empty fuel CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never hit 

> the forward CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far 

> forward as possible to allow some baggage capacity.

>

>     Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use 

> the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle 

> cables at the TBI-40 carb.

>

> On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

>> 

>>

>> My Zodiac is nearing inspection.  It should happen before OSH but 

>> that is in doubt.  It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do 

>> the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.

>>

>> I did weight and balance today.  My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru 

>> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, nav 

>> lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light.  The instrument panel 

>> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder.  Empty 

>> weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on 

>> both wing leading edges).  My test flight calculated W & B with 24 

>> gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of 

>> datum.

>>

>> Yes, I know . . .  my passenger and baggage allowance calls for 

>> someone really small . . .  Maybe I should consider getting one leg 

>> amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?

>>

>> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual 

>> experience with flying XL's?

>>

>> Paul

>> Camas, WA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>




	


-- 

Mark Hubelbank

NorthEast Monitoring

2 Clock Tower Place

Suite 555

Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA

mhubel(at)nemon.com

978-443-3955

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hi Mark,



I've been doing taxi testing for about a week now.  Several little 

problems have come up. The most alarming was a leak in the hose 

connecting the oil cooler to the engine.  That is fixed now but I still 

need one more test run to make sure I got rid of the last little drip 

between the filter and engine fitting.  Other problems include a 

vibration in the instrument panel that has temporarily been fixed with a 

folded piece of cardboard jammed between the panel and the center 

console.  I also needed to add some spray lubricant to the plastic block 

on the nose gear column to make the steering more smooth.



I'll try to report actual flight testing as it happens.  On the first 

flight I really want to learn what engine RPM is needed for level flight 

at 70 KIAS with no flaps.  This should be my standard pattern entry 

configuration.  I plan to use full flaps - which in my case is around 20 

degrees - for both takeoff and landing.  The plane is sufficiently 

overpowered that 20 degrees flaps on takeoff should only serve to make 

the ground run very short.



Paul



On 7/6/2011 8:11 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Paul,

     Best of luck on the inspection. It should be a very straight 

 forward process. The advantage of using the same airframe and engine 

 others have. Let us know when you are ready to test it.



 On 07/06/2011 10:36 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

> 

>

> Hi Mark,

>

> Thanks for the information.

>

> I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit and 

> redesigned it.  I didn't like the way their design felt.  My change 

> was to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms downward 

> while lengthening them.   I also put the throttle controls and the 

> carb heat control on the cabin side rather than on the instrument 

> panel. This keeps all the throttle cables at about the same height as 

> the carburetor.   My arms are not long enough to sit back in the seat 

> and rest my hand on the throttle.  I am pleased with the smooth 

> operation of my modified throttles.

>

> It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday.  The only 

> issue is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs.  I guess 

> time will tell if this works or not.

>

> Paul

>

> On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:

>> 

>>

>> Paul,

>>     I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749 

>> lb and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly 

>> that way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089 

>> lb and 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the 

>> empty fuel CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never 

>> hit the forward CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far 

>> forward as possible to allow some baggage capacity.

>>

>>     Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use 

>> the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle 

>> cables at the TBI-40 carb.

>>

>> On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

>>> 

>>>

>>> My Zodiac is nearing inspection.  It should happen before OSH but 

>>> that is in doubt.  It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do 

>>> the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.

>>>

>>> I did weight and balance today.  My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru 

>>> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, 

>>> nav lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light.  The instrument panel 

>>> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder.  Empty 

>>> weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on 

>>> both wing leading edges).  My test flight calculated W & B with 24 

>>> gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of 

>>> datum.

>>>

>>> Yes, I know . . .  my passenger and baggage allowance calls for 

>>> someone really small . . .  Maybe I should consider getting one leg 

>>> amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?

>>>

>>> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual 

>>> experience with flying XL's?

>>>

>>> Paul

>>> Camas, WA

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Paul,

     Understood,

     Have you been following all the issues with the oil cooler hose on 

the jabiruengines forum? The -6 hoses and fittings as supplied by jabiru 

are marginal, At some point you will probably want to replace them all 

and the oil adapter plate. I went over kill and did -10 but -8 is 

probably adequate.

     While I am not a professional test pilot, if you have enough runway 

(3000 feet??) , I would suggest using no flaps on the first takeoff and 

landings. Flaps on the 601 causes a strong nose down tendency and you 

can run out of trim. Keep it simple.

     At full flaps, the climb rate is lower, you are being exposed for a 

longer time to the period where one can not return to the runway if 

there is a engine problem. Speaking of engine problems, be prepaired to 

reduce throttle slightly if at full throttle climb, the engine starts to 

run rough, the Bing carb is noted for doing funny things.

     I would also suggest some wheel off taxi tests. Just enough speed 

to get the wheels up then let it back down. Just in case there some 

strange problem in the control linkage, being 1 foot from the runway can 

save a lot.

     Just note that on my first flight, I encountered an aerilon trim 

problem, it only showed near stall - on landing.



On 07/06/2011 11:27 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Mark,



 I've been doing taxi testing for about a week now.  Several little 

 problems have come up. The most alarming was a leak in the hose 

 connecting the oil cooler to the engine.  That is fixed now but I 

 still need one more test run to make sure I got rid of the last little 

 drip between the filter and engine fitting.  Other problems include a 

 vibration in the instrument panel that has temporarily been fixed with 

 a folded piece of cardboard jammed between the panel and the center 

 console.  I also needed to add some spray lubricant to the plastic 

 block on the nose gear column to make the steering more smooth.



 I'll try to report actual flight testing as it happens.  On the first 

 flight I really want to learn what engine RPM is needed for level 

 flight at 70 KIAS with no flaps.  This should be my standard pattern 

 entry configuration.  I plan to use full flaps - which in my case is 

 around 20 degrees - for both takeoff and landing.  The plane is 

 sufficiently overpowered that 20 degrees flaps on takeoff should only 

 serve to make the ground run very short.



 Paul



 On 7/6/2011 8:11 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:

> 

>

> Paul,

>     Best of luck on the inspection. It should be a very straight 

> forward process. The advantage of using the same airframe and engine 

> others have. Let us know when you are ready to test it.

>

> On 07/06/2011 10:36 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

>> 

>>

>> Hi Mark,

>>

>> Thanks for the information.

>>

>> I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit 

>> and redesigned it.  I didn't like the way their design felt.  My 

>> change was to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms 

>> downward while lengthening them.   I also put the throttle controls 

>> and the carb heat control on the cabin side rather than on the 

>> instrument panel. This keeps all the throttle cables at about the 

>> same height as the carburetor.   My arms are not long enough to sit 

>> back in the seat and rest my hand on the throttle.  I am pleased 

>> with the smooth operation of my modified throttles.

>>

>> It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday.  The only 

>> issue is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs.  I guess 

>> time will tell if this works or not.

>>

>> Paul

>>

>> On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:

>>> 

>>> <mhubel(at)nemon.com>

>>>

>>> Paul,

>>>     I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749 

>>> lb and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly 

>>> that way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 

>>> 1089 lb and 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, 

>>> the empty fuel CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can 

>>> never hit the forward CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG 

>>> as far forward as possible to allow some baggage capacity.

>>>

>>>     Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use 

>>> the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle 

>>> cables at the TBI-40 carb.

>>>

>>> On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

>>>> 

>>>>

>>>> My Zodiac is nearing inspection.  It should happen before OSH but 

>>>> that is in doubt.  It is incredibly difficult to find someone to 

>>>> do the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.

>>>>

>>>> I did weight and balance today.  My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru 

>>>> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, 

>>>> nav lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light.  The instrument panel 

>>>> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder.  

>>>> Empty weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 

>>>> 1790 on both wing leading edges).  My test flight calculated W & B 

>>>> with 24 gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 

>>>> aft of datum.

>>>>

>>>> Yes, I know . . .  my passenger and baggage allowance calls for 

>>>> someone really small . . .  Maybe I should consider getting one 

>>>> leg amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?

>>>>

>>>> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual 

>>>> experience with flying XL's?

>>>>

>>>> Paul

>>>> Camas, WA

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>




	


-- 

Mark Hubelbank

NorthEast Monitoring

2 Clock Tower Place

Suite 555

Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA

mhubel(at)nemon.com

978-443-3955

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hi Mark,



No I've not been following Jabiru issues.  I didn't even know there was 

a list for that subject.  My hose problem was certainly caused by a poor 

job on my part assembling the hose.  I also had leaks through the 

threads on one of the fittings due to poor loctite application and, to a 

lesser degree, the fact I had turned the fitting in its threads when 

fooling around with the leaky hose fitting.



What is the cause or impact of the hose size on the oil cooler fittings?



The field I use is quite short for a public paved runway.  It is Grove 

Field (1W1).   I think the total runway is 2400 feet and there are very 

tall trees a few hundred yards from the normal departure end of the 

runway.  I have been flying a Tecnam Echo Super that always requires 

flaps on takeoff.  It still uses only a few hundred feet ground roll and 

climbs like a banshee.  I have also spent a lot of time flying C-182s 

which won't get off the ground without flaps.  I guess my preference is 

to use at least 1/2 flaps for takeoff.  I don't have a good way to 

measure how much flaps I have except for the stops at none and max so I 

was thinking full flaps would be a good choice.



I have no intention of returning to the runway if I lose the engine at 

low altitude.  I might try to do that if I have achieved significantly 

more than pattern altitude.  That would happen with the Tecnam long 

before I finished turning cross-wind.  The Jabiru powered Zodiac has 

similar wing loading to the Tecnam and 30 percent more power.  I am 

expecting exhilarating climb performance.



One trick I learned many years ago from my favorite instructor is to 

leave the engine settings alone until reaching at least 500 AGL.  It 

turns out nearly all engine problems happen when changing the power setting.



I appreciate the comments about trim.  That is one area I can only 

discover on the first flight.



I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle.  The 

hint to reduce power sounds like a real gem.  Before my first flight I 

plan to follow the advice of one of the guys on my field.  He is in the 

habit of ferrying old planes around the country and tries a pretend 

pattern flight with the brakes set and the wheels chocked.  This means 

running full throttle for a minute or two followed by cruise power, 

power reduction for approach and increasing power again for a go around 

simulation.  His experience is around 1 in 10 planes that have been 

sitting around for a few years show bad behavior with this test.



Thanks again,



Paul



On 7/6/2011 9:26 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Paul,

     Understood,

     Have you been following all the issues with the oil cooler hose on 

 the jabiruengines forum? The -6 hoses and fittings as supplied by 

 jabiru are marginal, At some point you will probably want to replace 

 them all and the oil adapter plate. I went over kill and did -10 but 

 -8 is probably adequate.

     While I am not a professional test pilot, if you have enough 

 runway (3000 feet??) , I would suggest using no flaps on the first 

 takeoff and landings. Flaps on the 601 causes a strong nose down 

 tendency and you can run out of trim. Keep it simple.

     At full flaps, the climb rate is lower, you are being exposed for 

 a longer time to the period where one can not return to the runway if 

 there is a engine problem. Speaking of engine problems, be prepaired 

 to reduce throttle slightly if at full throttle climb, the engine 

 starts to run rough, the Bing carb is noted for doing funny things.

     I would also suggest some wheel off taxi tests. Just enough speed 

 to get the wheels up then let it back down. Just in case there some 

 strange problem in the control linkage, being 1 foot from the runway 

 can save a lot.

     Just note that on my first flight, I encountered an aerilon trim 

 problem, it only showed near stall - on landing.

don.honabach(at)pcperfect
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:49 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle


	


The Jabiru/Bing Carb is sensitive to intake air turbulence and/or heavily biased air going into the carb. In 601HDS installs at least, the intake elbow is tight and at WOT you'll get air turbulence and/or biased air through the carb and ultimately to the cylinders which will cause a roughness that tends to only occur at WOT as the fuel mixture becomes un-balanced at this point.



Most folks fix this by installing an internal divider into the carb intake elbow.  Some solve it by rotating the carb a bit, and some do both or just get lucky.



In the end, it is just a good thing to know it exists and if you encounter it, just pull back the throttle a bit and you the engine should go back to 'purrrring mode' and then you can tinker with it on the ground and ultimately find a way of improving the air intake path.



Hope this helps -- good luck on your first flight.



Thanks,

Don

--

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hi Don,



Thanks for the info.



I spoke to Pete Krotje about this issue at Sun n Fun (Tornadoes n Mud?) 

earlier this year.  He suggested replacing the SCAT tube with a rubber 

right angle and gave me the source for these parts.  I did that.  I 

suppose that means I am immune from this problem.  Right?  (Ha Ha)



I am looking forward to my first flight about as much as I might look 

forward to having a root canal.  I really expect it to go well, but all 

these years of wondering about the integrity of the XL have not yet worn 

off.  Perhaps I will feel much better after I get it in the air and 

grease a few landings.



Paul



On 7/6/2011 12:48 PM, Don Honabach wrote:

[quote] 



>> I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle

 The Jabiru/Bing Carb is sensitive to intake air turbulence and/or heavily biased air going into the carb. In 601HDS installs at least, the intake elbow is tight and at WOT you'll get air turbulence and/or biased air through the carb and ultimately to the cylinders which will cause a roughness that tends to only occur at WOT as the fuel mixture becomes un-balanced at this point.



 Most folks fix this by installing an internal divider into the carb intake elbow.  Some solve it by rotating the carb a bit, and some do both or just get lucky.



 In the end, it is just a good thing to know it exists and if you encounter it, just pull back the throttle a bit and you the engine should go back to 'purrrring mode' and then you can tinker with it on the ground and ultimately find a way of improving the air intake path.



 Hope this helps -- good luck on your first flight.



 Thanks,

 Don

 --

don.honabach(at)pcperfect
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hey Paul,



FWIW, for me, I had the issue with both parts (SCAT and rubber part he is talking about). 



Thanks,

Don

--

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Paul,

Get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..

Dave Austin

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Thanks, Dave.



I'm just waiting for an airworthiness certificate right now.  With luck 

I will have that by tomorrow night.  Then it is just a matter of finding 

some nice weather.



Believe it or not I already have liability insurance with no checkout 

required.  I didn't think I could find such a thing, but I asked and the 

guys at Regal found it for me.  I could have gotten hull insurance too, 

but the price was very high and $1000 less if I had 10 hours in type.  I 

figure I will have a lot more than that in a couple of months.



Paul



On 7/6/2011 5:52 PM, Dave Austin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Paul,

 Get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..

 Dave Austin

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Thanks, Don.



I had heard there was a problem with the carb input hose, but I had not 

heard how it shows up.  I don't think I would have guessed it appears at 

full throttle and goes away if you back off a little.



I really appreciate the advice all of the list members are giving me.



Paul



On 7/6/2011 2:12 PM, Don Honabach wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hey Paul,



 FWIW, for me, I had the issue with both parts (SCAT and rubber part he is talking about).



 Thanks,

 Don

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:42 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hey Paul,

That was meant as positive encouragement!

If anyone has, you have done everything to get it right.  But at some point you have to, not stop 

listening to all the "what could happen" stuff that comes at you, but make a decision to fly based 

on your knowledge that you've built it the best that could be.

Just for fun, I can't rmember if yours is tail dragger or trike, but I was advised strongly at first 

flight for the Spitfire (taildragger) do not attempt to do hops on the runway.  That's the way to 

lose directional control and wrap it up in a ball.  High speed taxies are the same.  If it doesn't 

yaw or do something wierd as you lift off, go for the circuit.

Enjoy.

Dave Austin

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hi Dave,



I feel encouraged!  I am just a nervous type when it comes to flying. 

That is nothing new for me.  Of course, it is peaked by planning a first 

flight of a plane built by an amateur (me).



My Zodiac has tricycle gear.



I do not plan to do hops on the runway.  I don't want to do any landings 

- even after a flight of just a few feet -- until I have had a chance to 

get the feel of the plane in landing configuration and stall speeds, 

etc. at high altitude.  My first flight should take at least a half hour 

- probably longer.  I want to get a reading on indicated stall speeds - 

both clean and dirty - and try forward slips both clean and dirty before 

attempting any approaches.  I also want to do some gentle turns such as 

the type needed from base leg to final.  A bonus would be learning the 

power setting for level flight at 70 KIAS for traffic pattern entry.



I've been flying a Tecnam Echo Super for the last two years.  I found it 

really likes to be at exactly 52 KIAS with full flaps when it is time to 

flare for landing.  If it is slower than that it just slams into the 

runway no matter what the pitch.  If faster it floats forever.  (It 

stalls at 38 KIAS dirty.)   I plan to try this same speed for the Zodiac 

landing, but would be delighted to hear what others use.  Also the best 

glide speeds for the Echo are around 70 clean and 60 dirty.  Since the 

Zodiac has nearly exactly the same wing loading I expect it to have 

similar key speeds.  (I am used to using Knots rather then MPH.)



I just started a first-cut checklist for my Zodiac.  I didn't use one at 

all with the Echo.  It was such a simple plane I really didn't need 

one.  The Jabiru engine rather than Rotax and low wing vs. high wing 

makes a number of issues to check like carb heat, electric fuel pump, 

and fuel tank selection.  The Rotax powered Tecnam Echo has a gravity 

feed fuel system and no air box as well as no vacuum pump.  Both planes 

have Dynon based instrument panels so there is no need to set and 

monitor a DG.  To get the Echo going all you need to do is set the 

altimeter and radios, set take-off flaps (there is a line marked TO on 

the readout) and do a quick mag check.  You could put a checklist for 

that plane on the back of a fortune cookie insert.



I have an appointment with a DAR for 1:00 this afternoon.  If all goes 

well I will have an airworthiness certificate tonight.  That seems a bit 

risky because of issues with the MIDO and their DAR list, but I won't 

bore everyone here with FAA politics.  I'm just hoping it all works out OK.



Then my biggest problem planning my first flight is determining who to 

invite to watch and/or help.  I have offered the opportunity to my wife 

and at least one EAA chapter member has expressed great interest in 

helping.  My first choice would be to just do it without anybody else 

involved.



Paul



On 7/7/2011 4:39 AM, Dave Austin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>



 Hey Paul,

 That was meant as positive encouragement!

 If anyone has, you have done everything to get it right.  But at some 

 point you have to, not stop listening to all the "what could happen" 

 stuff that comes at you, but make a decision to fly based on your 

 knowledge that you've built it the best that could be.

 Just for fun, I can't rmember if yours is tail dragger or trike, but I 

 was advised strongly at first flight for the Spitfire (taildragger) do 

 not attempt to do hops on the runway.  That's the way to lose 

 directional control and wrap it up in a ball.  High speed taxies are 

 the same.  If it doesn't yaw or do something wierd as you lift off, go 

 for the circuit.

 Enjoy.

 Dave Austin

don.honabach(at)pcperfect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

I second that 



Don

--

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Thanks guys,



Well, there's DARs and then there's DARs and never the twain shall meet.



I got my plane certified this afternoon.  It turns out there are 

"Manufacturing" DARs that report to the MIDOs and "Maintenance" DARs 

that report to FSDOs.  The ones you want for an E-AB inspection are 

Maintenance DARs.  If you are manufacturing type certificated planes you 

need Manufacturing DARs.  They cost a lot more and have much busier 

schedules.  I went the wrong way asking the local MIDO for an inspection 

instead of the local FSDO.  It all worked out in the end, but this is a 

mistake I made that others can learn from.



My inspection took about three hours.  The last of the hours was just 

doing paper work.  It was quite painless.  The DAR found a few small 

things that should be corrected before I fly the plane, but they were 

really small.  In one case there was an edge to a piece of skin that was 

not smooth and he suggested running some sandpaper or a file over it.  

Another case was some wires in the engine compartment he was afraid 

might rub on adjacent metal parts.



There was one interesting discussion that everyone can gain from.  He 

asked me if I had done engine testing from both tanks, and the answer 

was no.  He suggested I do some taxi testing from the other tank and 

then clean out the gascolator before flying the plane.  This was great 

advice.  I have read several accident reports about fuel starvation 

because of manufacturing trash (chips, etc.) in the fuel system that 

could have been removed before flight.



I don't know exactly when I will be able to get the plane in the air, 

but it will be a few days for sure.  I have to put it all back together, 

fix the squawks, and do the engine testing from the other tank.



Paul

XL - now a real airplane

On 7/7/2011 11:07 AM, Don Honabach wrote:

[quote] 



 I second that 



 Don

 --

vvkidd(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Congrats.



Victor Kidd

N922VK  CRW WV

--

DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Finally getting close to certification.

Paul,



Congratulations on getting your certification.  I hope your first flight is as enjoyable as mine was.  I will only add one caution about the responsive pitch control and how I personally witnessed a fellow 601XL builder almost conclude his first flight quite prematurely.  When the elevator comes in trail, at around 35 MPH or so, pull the stick back another 1-2 inches and hold it there.  Upon rotation, hold it there like a rock and don't move it until your are a good 100" above the ground.  This other pilot popped the stick back at rotation speed, was a bit surprised at the fast pitch rate and pushed back down, slamming on the runway, pulled back again, and this time remained airborne.  I have the video and it still scares me to watch it today.  



Now don't let me scare you.  You will surely learn and get used to the pitch response quickly during your phase 1 flight testing.  The first rotation is not the place you want to be surprised.



Now to 2nd Mr. Austin's remarks, get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing.. 



Dave

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: Finally getting close to certification.

Hi Dave,



Thanks for the advice.  It sounds very good but I'm afraid I just don't 

fly the way you described.



My style of flying is to use the controls to get the attitude I want 

without paying any attention at all to how much force or movement I 

experience on the controls.  I think I can translate your excellent 

advice to my style of flying by saying I should raise the nose for 

take-off (rotate) and hold it in that position.  That is the way I 

normally fly any plane.  The only difference is the visual image I get 

from one plane to another.  Some take off without any pitch change while 

others raise the nose  a "couple of fingers".



I spent a few hours this morning replacing all the inspection panels and 

other stuff that was removed for the inspection.  I still need to do 

another round of taxi testing including using the other fuel tank, 

running the engine up to full power and holding it there for a couple of 

minutes (if it doesn't get too hot), checking carb heat and doing a 

magneto check.  After all that I need to clean out the gascolator.  Then 

it is really time for me to find nice weather and do the first flight.



I really appreciate all the comments I have been getting from list 

members and also pilots at my field.  I'm sure all will go well.  It is 

not a big surprise that I am a little bit nervous over all this.  I 

would be more worried if I wasn't.



Paul

Camas, WA



On 7/8/2011 9:12 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Paul,



 Congratulations on getting your certification.  I hope your first flight is as enjoyable as mine was.  I will only add one caution about the responsive pitch control and how I personally witnessed a fellow 601XL builder almost conclude his first flight quite prematurely.  When the elevator comes in trail, at around 35 MPH or so, pull the stick back another 1-2 inches and hold it there.  Upon rotation, hold it there like a rock and don't move it until your are a good 100" above the ground.  This other pilot popped the stick back at rotation speed, was a bit surprised at the fast pitch rate and pushed back down, slamming on the runway, pulled back again, and this time remained airborne.  I have the video and it still scares me to watch it today.



 Now don't let me scare you.  You will surely learn and get used to the pitch response quickly during your phase 1 flight testing.  The first rotation is not the place you want to be surprised.



 Now to 2nd Mr. Austin's remarks, get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..



 Dave



 --------

 David Gallagher

 601 XL/Jabiru 3300

 First flight 7/24/08

 Upgraded 3/19/10

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