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phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

I have some general questions about private airstrips, for anyone who owns one, uses one, or knows someone that does. I'm moving soon and I found a home I'm considering buying. It's located on a narrow, long, flat tract of land located within city limits and it would be perfect for ultralights.



Assuming the usual precautions concerning clearance for trees and power lines, flying over neighboring dwellings, the noise factor, distance from the city's metro airport (2.2 miles away), etc., what civil, city or state authorities typically govern setting one up? Is there an approval process? If there is no formal application process, I assume a courtesy interview of sorts with the local authorities would be in order just to make them aware? For those who own a strip, what formal steps did you take to create it (and how long ago)?



Phil H. - Lurker majeure

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

post a google map with your prospective property and the airport on it.

Right now I'd say it doesn't look good.

BB



On 9, Jul 2011, at 8:08 PM, phactor9 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I have some general questions about private airstrips, for anyone who owns one, uses one, or knows someone that does. I'm moving soon and I found a home I'm considering buying. It's located on a narrow, long, flat tract of land located within city limits and it would be perfect for ultralights.

 

 Assuming the usual precautions concerning clearance for trees and power lines, flying over neighboring dwellings, the noise factor, distance from the city's metro airport (2.2 miles away), etc., what civil, city or state authorities typically govern setting one up? Is there an approval process? If there is no formal application process, I assume a courtesy interview of sorts with the local authorities would be in order just to make them aware? For those who own a strip, what formal steps did you take to create it (and how long ago)?

 

 Phil H. - Lurker majeure 

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345657#345657

Kirkds

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Michigan

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

I just put it in. But I don't live in the city.

---

_________________
Kirk Smith
Columbiaville, MI

Firestar II

John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

Phil,



I have a private strip.  Put it in about 6 years ago.  I think if varies state to state.  The federal (FAA) approval defers to the individual states for the initial approval.  Here in Louisiana, have to go through the aviation division of the state Department of Transportation. 



My advice would be to survey your neighbors.  All it takes is one to make life a bit miserable, even with approval.  I try not to hang around my strip to avoid aggravating anyone. In and out, even though I live in the country.

_________________
Thanks too much,

John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA

I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for.

phactor9

Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

Hi John:

  

 I'm realizing I was a bit too elaborate in my description. I really didn't want to build an airstrip as much as simply mow a 450' strip out of the 650' long tract and fly in and out of the backyard (Kolb Firefly). There are no homes within 1,200 feet in line with the flight path.

  

 So, anyone with experience in just flying in and out of the backyard (with respect to how the authorities view that); how did you do it?

  

 Phil H.



--- On Sat, 7/9/11, John Bickham <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: John Bickham <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, July 9, 2011, 10:04 PM



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net (gearbender(at)bellsouth.net)>



Phil,



I have a private strip.  Put it in about 6 years ago.  I think if varies state to state.  The federal (FAA) approval defers to the individual states for the initial approval.  Here in Louisiana, have to go through the aviation division of the state Department of Transportation. 



My advice would be to survey your neighbors.  All it takes is one to make life a bit miserable, even with approval.  I try not to hang around my strip to avoid aggravating anyone. In and out, even though I live in the country.



--------

Thanks too much,



John Bickham

Mark III-C w/ 912UL

St. Francisville, LA



I know many pilots and a few true aviators.  There is a  distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronicst; 



	
 [quote][b]

John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

I got you Phil.



Don't want you to rain on your airstrip.  Hope you are truly successful in your venture.  As I said, it varies state to state.  Here in Louisiana, even ultralight fields have to go through an state approval process and ultimately FAA registration.  There is a $500 fine for every takeoff and landing from an un-approved landing strip.  That usually requires someone complaining.  Every now and then, I hear something that requires a "precautionary landing".  But don't revisit that place for a long time.



only problem with having your on strip is GRASS CUTTING!  At least down here.



Good luck!

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

First check the local city ordinances to see if there are any restrictions. In our city there are. Fortunately my strip is outside the city limits. If that works, then go to the local FAA facility that you say is 2.2 miles away and talk to the tower chief and see if he will give you a Letter of Agreement. For a sample of what that looks like, here is mine:

http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/3TN0.html



Bear in mind, he cannot deny you the right to make yourself an airstrip, what you want is the ability to come and go without jumping through too many hoops. So you are looking for something that will enable you to operate legally in terms of the FAR's and also keep your unwelcome butt out of their traffic pattern.



If you can leap both of those hurdles, then plan to get an intake silencer, and an exhaust silencer, and use your airport as a place to depart from, and land at. Pattern work? Forget it, go someplace else. Flying around over the subdivision? Are you out of your mind? Neither you nor anyone else gets to do that. 



If any of your buds want to fly in and visit, acquaint them with the Letter of Agreement, and make it clear in no uncertain terms that if they bust it, you could lose the good will of the FAA, and then - as Yoda says "When angry I am, like me you will not." One thoughtless friend flying around over the subdivision waving at all the people below instantly becomes YOU in the eyes of the non-pilot community, and you will be the one to pay the price. So make it plain up front to any who might want to come and visit. 



Which is sort of how that page I linked to lays it out - and it may not sound real gracious, but that is how I have done it since the mid 80's, and I have had no problems, and all my pilot friends are cool with it. They come in and land, and avoid over flying the houses as much as possible. 



And since I have been consistently sort of a hard-ass about it, I have never had any complaints from the neighbors. 



Oh, yeah - if everything else works out, then you need to notify the FAA that you have created a landing strip. I forget the FAR, but if you get that far, let me know and I'll look it up. It is free, but it is also mandatory. If you want to talk to me about details, PM me, and I'll give you a phone number. 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

This is reminding me how good I had it in my earlier days.  By shear good luck (and asking around), I met a guy Sandy at the local radio control field.  He introduced me to his old farmer friend Bill, who had an FAA approved strip on his 80 acre farm, 8 miles from my house.  He welcomed me into his place, with just a handshake and understanding, while the $#(at)! local airport managers of both local airports blew smoke in my face.  Bill encouraged me to use his strip, as it helped him show the FAA that it was "in use".  HA!  I did a million T&Go's there, engine-outs, etc, etc.  Had a blast.  Just a narrow little strip of grass on the side of his tomato rows, and a wicked deep irrigation ditch to the side (and almost always a bit of cross wind!).  Gad, that was good stuff.



Today, I've lost touch of good ol Bill -- he is probably smilin down from above by now.  His house got bulldozed about 10 years ago and a new subdivision sits there now.  Fortunately, my KXP has an N number now and I fly out of airports in the same plane that the same airport manager snubbed me on before.  The airport's fine, but nuthin will match the sweetness of goofin around at Bill's place, back in the day.



Cheers,

-Ben

________________________________

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Phil [phactor9(at)yahoo.com]

Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 7:34 PM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Creating a private airstrip



Hi John:



I'm realizing I was a bit too elaborate in my description. I really didn't want to build an airstrip as much as simply mow a 450' strip out of the 650' long tract and fly in and out of the backyard (Kolb Firefly). There are no homes within 1,200 feet in line with the flight path.



So, anyone with experience in just flying in and out of the backyard (with respect to how the authorities view that); how did you do it?



Phil H.



--- On Sat, 7/9/11, John Bickham <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



From: John Bickham <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, July 9, 2011, 10:04 PM






Phil,



I have a private strip.  Put it in about 6 years ago.  I think if varies state to state.  The federal (FAA) approval defers to the individual states for the initial approval.  Here in Louisiana, have to go through the aviation division of the state Department of Transportation.



My advice would be to survey your neighbors.  All it takes is one to make life a bit miserable, even with approval.  I try not to hang around my strip to avoid aggravating anyone. In and out, even though I live in the country

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have some general questions about private airstrips, for anyone who owns one, uses one, or knows someone that does. I'm moving >soon and I found a home I'm considering buying. It's located on a narrow, long, flat tract of land located within city limits and it would >be perfect for ultralights.

 

 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Phil H. - Lurker majeure 

 
	


 

Phil,

 

  I was in the process of putting it an airstrip on my property once.  I didn't finish it, though.

I was also a real estate agent, and a general contractor....so I'm fairly familar with "planning &

zoning, building codes, land use restrictions, a&&hole neighbors, etc.

 

  If you want to find out if you "CAN" put in your airstrip, contact the local Planning & Zoning 

department.  All land, whether it is commercial, industrial, residential, or whatever has 

ALLOWABLE uses....and the local P & Z rules determine exactly what those uses can be.

Each type of land will have dozens of "typical" types of uses that are allowed.  These lists 

will sometimes include what is NOT allowed, too, and I would suspect an airstrip is one of them.

 

  Example;  for a residential R-3 property, within city limits, less than 1 acre, on a paved street,

using city services (water, elec, gas, etc) will allow '1' single family home, not less than 1200 sq ft,

etc, etc, etc, etc.   You get the idea.  What you can and can not do is NOT by whim!!!  It is determined

by the State, the County, and the City where you want to put it, generally speaking, it is MOST

determined by the local P & Z department....and trust me, they'll be the ones who show up to tell you

you can't do this if the codes so "NO". 

 

  P & Z makes the decision, NOT your neighbors.  If P & Z says it's okay, neighbors can't say too much.

If P & Z rules say it NOT ok, then one gripe by a neighbor shuts you down

flypoker(at)windstream.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:42 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

I have a 1200' strip. I am not in any city limit and not near a muni 

airport. I just did a little dirt work, start mowing it and I have a strip. 

After reading some the replies, I am glad that I live in rural Missouri, 

where if not in a city, you can do as you please. The bad part is that so 

can my neighbors if they wish. No zoning, no codes nobody to say no.



There abour 6 ag strips within 3 mile radius of my house/strip. Got to watch 

out for the crop dusters.

Jerry

---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

Mine is similar to Jerry's.  1200', well drained, can fly off it anytime there is less than 4" snow.  Not "recognized" by any authority

but the tower at ROC knew there are several strips out here many years ago.  It helped that my neighbor was n FAA inspector.



Been flying out of here since 1972 and only had two NYS thruway troopers stroll over to see who "crashed"



Never fly over the nearby village.  Also avoid one neighbor to the northwest I don't trust to be kindly.  The rest love to see

me cruising around the neighborhood on a pretty summer evening.  Many waves.



There is one township on the NE of our county that passed an ordinance forbidding any aircraft operations and strips

as a result of one cranky guy who hated his neighbor having a helicopter.  Glad I don't live there.

BB

On 10, Jul 2011, at 7:38 AM, Jerry Deckard wrote:



[quote] 

 

 I have a 1200' strip. I am not in any city limit and not near a muni airport. I just did a little dirt work, start mowing it and I have a strip. After reading some the replies, I am glad that I live in rural Missouri, where if not in a city, you can do as you please. The bad part is that so can my neighbors if they wish. No zoning, no codes nobody to say no.

 

 There abour 6 ag strips within 3 mile radius of my house/strip. Got to watch out for the crop dusters.

 Jerry

 ---

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a 1200' strip.... in rural Missouri, 

 Jerry


	


Jerry,



  What part of Missouri are you?  I don't recall if you mentioned it before

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

The rules vary from state to state. Some states have no restrictions, and you can land anywhere you want. Others, like NJ, you can't land anywhere except a state approved airport. Here in CT, you can do 35 takeoffs or landings per year before you have to license it with the state... though it's not clear if this applies to ultralights.

 

 We started a new strip here last year, mostly UL with occasional GA visits. No formal permission. We flew for a few months before a neighbor complained and the zoning board shut us down, saying the zoning regulations didn't allow an airport there. We then made a formal application for a zoning change, and rather than grant it, the board decided there was nothing in the regs actually prohibiting it, either... so they told us to go have fun, just don't annoy anybody. We too have to be hardass about staying away from houses.

 

 2 miles from another airport requires care. If there's a control tower, then obviously you need clearance to fly in their class D airspace. We fly a low (400'), close pattern.

 

 -Dana



phactor9 <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote:[quote] [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "phactor9" <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>I have some general questions about private airstrips, for anyone who owns one, uses one, or knows someone that does. I'm moving soon and I found a home I'm considering buying. It's located on a narrow, long, flat tract of land located within city limits and it would be perfect for ultralights.Assuming the usual precautions concerning clearance for trees and power lines, flying over neighboring dwellings, the noise factor, distance from the city's metro airport (2.2 miles away), etc., what civil, city or state authorities typically govern setting one up? Is there an approval process? If there is no formal application process, I assume a courtesy interview of sorts with the local authorities would be in order just to make them aware? For those who own a strip, what formal steps did you take to create   it (and  ist  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

 	  Quote: 	
		   Mine is similar to Jerry's.  1200', well drained, can fly off it anytime 

 there is less than 4" snow.  Not "recognized" by any authority

 but the tower at ROC knew there are several strips out here many years 

 ago.  It helped that my neighbor was n FAA inspector.

 > BB
	


I have been flying out of my neighbors front yard, a cow pasture, since 

1984.  Initially, it was 600 feet.  Now it is 750 feet.



It is not registered, but Gantt International Airport has been operational 

for 27 years.  Many international flights have originated and terminated 

here.



Everyone is welcome to land.  We have never been sued by any of our friends.



john h

mkIII

Tuscaloosa, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

Dana- I was wondering how you made out.  Ct. zoning can be kind of sticky.  Congratulations.

  

 do not archive.

                                              Bill Sullivan



--- On Sun, 7/10/11, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 9:53 AM



 The rules vary from state to state. Some states have no restrictions, and you can land anywhere you want. Others, like NJ, you can't land anywhere except a state approved airport. Here in CT, you can do 35 takeoffs or landings per year before you have to license it with the state... though it's not clear if this applies to ultralights.



We started a new strip here last year, mostly UL with occasional GA visits. No formal permission. We flew for a few months before a neighbor complained and the zoning board shut us down, saying the zoning regulations didn't allow an airport there. We then made a formal application for a zoning change, and rather than grant it, the board decided there was nothing in the regs actually prohibiting it, either... so they told us to go have fun, just don't annoy anybody. We too have to be hardass about staying away from houses.



2 miles from another airport requires care. If there's a control  tower, then obviously you need clearance to fly in their class D airspace. We fly a low (400'), close pattern.



-Dana



 phactor9 <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "phactor9" <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>I have some general questions about private airstrips, for anyone who owns one, uses one, or knows someone that does. I'm moving soon and I found a home I'm considering buying. It's located on a narrow, long, flat tract of land located within city limits and it would be perfect for ultralights.Assuming the usual precautions concerning clearance for trees and power lines, flying over neighboring dwellings, the noise factor, distance from the city's metro airport (2.2 miles away), etc., what civil, city or state authorities typically govern setting one up? Is there an approval process? If there is no formal application process, I assume a courtesy interview of sorts with the

 local authorities would be in order just to make them aware? For those who own a strip, what formal steps did you take to create 

 it (and

 ist



 	  Quote: 	
		  



get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com

blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	
	




	
 [quote][b]

flypoker(at)windstream.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

Southeast, Near Poplar Bluff. 

 Jerry

 [quote]   ---

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  

 

 2 miles from another airport requires care. If there's a control tower, then obviously you need clearance to fly in their class D airspace. We fly a low (400'), close pattern.

 

 -Dana 	




That's why you want a letter of agreement: so you don't have to ask every time. Because you don't want to, and because if they are busy they don't want to hear from you. Trust me: I know.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Retired FAA ATC, 30 years of shuckin' & jivin'

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

That's because you're in a civilized part of the world, with civilized & polite people!

Russ

On Jul 10, 2011, at 10:03 AM, John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

> Mine is similar to Jerry's.  1200', well drained, can fly off it anytime there is less than 4" snow.  Not "recognized" by any authority

> but the tower at ROC knew there are several strips out here many years ago.  It helped that my neighbor was n FAA inspector.

 > BB

 I have been flying out of my neighbors front yard, a cow pasture, since 1984.  Initially, it was 600 feet.  Now it is 750 feet.

 It is not registered, but Gantt International Airport has been operational for 27 years.  Many international flights have originated and terminated here.

 Everyone is welcome to land.  We have never been sued by any of our friends.

 john h

 mkIII

 Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: Creating a private airstrip

I wasn't clear... our strip is about 2 miles from an _uncontrolled_ airport.  In some ways that's even worse, since even though we monitor the unicom, you don't know who's in the pattern.

 

 We used to fly PPGs from a sod farm just barely inside a class D.  Called the tower each time... we talked about getting a letter of agreement, but then some clown in a PPC (not one of our group) buzzed the town and now the tower won't let us fly there anymore. 

 

 -Dana



Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> wrote:[quote]  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>Dana wrote:> >  >  2 miles from another airport requires care. If there's a control tower, then obviously you need clearance to fly in their class D airspace. We fly a low (400'), close pattern.>  >  -Dana That's why you want a letter of agreement: so you don't have to ask every time. Because you don't want to, and because if they are busy they don't want to hear from you. Trust me: I know.Richard PikeMKIII N420P (420ldPoops)Retired FAA ATC, 30 years of shuckin' & jivin'Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345775#345775 	
[b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Creating a private airstrip

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		   <snip>  We used to fly PPGs from a sod farm just barely inside a class D.  Called the tower each time... we talked about getting a letter of agreement, but then some clown in a PPC (not one of our group) buzzed the town and now the tower won't let us fly there anymore. 

 

	




If you are as competitive as I am and like to game the system...



Are you still talking ultralights wanting to use that strip, or N-numbered aircraft? Because if everybody has an N number, you go back and tell them you want to use that strip, and you want a Letter of Agreement. And if the tower chief says no, then you bring the slowest N-numbered puddle futzers in the area out to his airport and get in the touch and go pattern every chance you can for as long as it takes... 



And if anybody complains, (and everybody will) you just announce over the frequency "Well, we would like to use the strip that is four and a half miles away, but the FAA won't let us, because it is JUST inside the class D, so we have to come here." 



The mission of the FAA is the safe, orderly and expeditious use of airspace, not the denial of it to anybody. So if they start denying you the use of YOUR airspace (it's not theirs, it is yours) then you deny them the ability to do anything orderly or expeditious. And make sure they know it. 



Anyway, that's the sort of thing I would do -



Richaard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

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