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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:37 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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I have been a rather prolific poster of flight videos of where I fly, and the learning curve is cumbersome to say the least. I am now on my fifth camera and will most likely get an HD model soon. I have been resisting it mainly because my upload speed is slow even with the non HD models. I have tried almost every where to get a steady mount that doesn't have the harmonics that just drive everyone crazy. I do believe that I have come up with a mount that will suit best all around.
The requirements are: a camera that doesn't have to have its video format changed and can be edited on a commonly available Movie program. That lets out the old style hand held that most generally had the stabilizer feature. A big help that the small usable cameras do not have currently.
A camera that can either be turned on at will without getting out of the plane. :-/ or a long enough battery and card capacity that will last the whole trip. This only requires some extensive editing.
a mount that has the least amount of vibration. This one has been the most difficult to solve.
My last mount was on the nose, and with some good dense foam provided a stabile mount. The only problem is that once on, you could not turn it off without getting out of the plane. That meant that you burned 10 minutes of battery just warming up. Or you had to warm up, get out, turn it on. Pain in the posterior! It however was workable, and the only real complaint was that the quality when uploaded to Youtube was fairly crappy.
The real key to camera stability is the foam. I first tried the foam that "Cool cups" were made of. The kind that you put pop or beer in to keep cooler. Worked great, one time. Then took on the shape and was no good. Then I used the foam that electronic equipment was packed in. It is really dense, and is made up of about 5 layers glued together. I has a much less tendency to compress, and if you remember and back off the pressure until you get ready to fly, will not take a shape.
I decided to use the top of the wind screen as a mount. On my last flight I felt every thing from the wing to the struts in an attempt to find the least amount of vibration. The wind screen was it. It also would have the advantage of being within reach. The camera that I am now thinking of is the drift HD. It has a remote that you can use, but with this location, I can reach out and do it by feel as well.
[img]cid:03C0F44DF75D4328B16EDB330A540E1B(at)larryPC[/img]
The mount consists of two pieces of the foam, two large washers, a 1/4 x 20 threaded bolt bent in a curve, a wing nut, and a regular pivoting camera mount.
[img]cid:42ACD08909C5490C88D3616C9F591891(at)larryPC[/img]
The curve is important as it will tell you which way the camera is facing, and allow you to take video's from the side as well to keep the thing aligned.
[img]cid:C90D91D470EB4E81AC12C093F1C41607(at)larryPC[/img]
I can see that I need to adjust the level before I fly. The foam is the key, and the test show that the nose of the plane is just visible, which is not bad, and the harmonics are gone. The good part of the whole thing is that it only requires one small 3/16 or so size hole in the screen.
Now that I have done all the work for you, it would be nice to see some videos.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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You asked for it. I flew a bit this morning well before the mist burned off. Took with mist all around but VFR. Headed south from Buffalo Airfield to get out from under the Class C shelf. Just a few minutes south, the mist turned to a broken layer below me and it looked overcast further ahead, so I did a 180 and headed back to the barn. I am experimenting with where to locate the camera mount and based on this video, I need to get it further back from the panel and pointed a bit higher, which I will do next flight. I took this video starting just a few minutes before landing. The first half is really boring with not much but the panel showing. But then comes the approach and landing which is the first I've shot a video of.
http://www.youtube.com/user/thomriddle?feature=mhee
Until I shot this landing video I didn't know what my ASI was indicating during plop-down. Now I know
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I have been a rather prolific poster of flight videos of where I fly, and the learning curve is cumbersome to say the least. I am now on my fifth camera and will most likely get an HD model soon. I have been resisting it mainly because my upload speed is slow even with the non HD models. I have tried almost every where to get a steady mount that doesn't have the harmonics that just drive everyone crazy. I do believe that I have come up with a mount that will suit best all around.
The requirements are: a camera that doesn't have to have its video format changed and can be edited on a commonly available Movie program. That lets out the old style hand held that most generally had the stabilizer feature. A big help that the small usable cameras do not have currently.
A camera that can either be turned on at will without getting out of the plane. :-/ or a long enough battery and card capacity that will last the whole trip. This only requires some extensive editing.
a mount that has the least amount of vibration. This one has been the most difficult to solve.
My last mount was on the nose, and with some good dense foam provided a stabile mount. The only problem is that once on, you could not turn it off without getting out of the plane. That meant that you burned 10 minutes of battery just warming up. Or you had to warm up, get out, turn it on. Pain in the posterior! It however was workable, and the only real complaint was that the quality when uploaded to Youtube was fairly crappy.
The real key to camera stability is the foam. I first tried the foam that "Cool cups" were made of. The kind that you put pop or beer in to keep cooler. Worked great, one time. Then took on the shape and was no good. Then I used the foam that electronic equipment was packed in. It is really dense, and is made up of about 5 layers glued together. I has a much less tendency to compress, and if you remember and back off the pressure until you get ready to fly, will not take a shape.
I decided to use the top of the wind screen as a mount. On my last flight I felt every thing from the wing to the struts in an attempt to find the least amount of vibration. The wind screen was it. It also would have the advantage of being within reach. The camera that I am now thinking of is the drift HD. It has a remote that you can use, but with this location, I can reach out and do it by feel as well.
[img]cid:03C0F44DF75D4328B16EDB330A540E1B(at)larryPC[/img]
The mount consists of two pieces of the foam, two large washers, a 1/4 x 20 threaded bolt bent in a curve, a wing nut, and a regular pivoting camera mount.
[img]cid:42ACD08909C5490C88D3616C9F591891(at)larryPC[/img]
The curve is important as it will tell you which way the camera is facing, and allow you to take video's from the side as well to keep the thing aligned.
[img]cid:C90D91D470EB4E81AC12C093F1C41607(at)larryPC[/img]
I can see that I need to adjust the level before I fly. The foam is the key, and the test show that the nose of the plane is just visible, which is not bad, and the harmonics are gone. The good part of the whole thing is that it only requires one small 3/16 or so size hole in the screen.
Now that I have done all the work for you, it would be nice to see some videos.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Ozarkflyer
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Mtn. View, AR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:47 am Post subject: Re: mounting Video Camera's |
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Love the videos. Would it be difficult to interface the headsets into the camera audio? I would probably take a high end camera with separate mic input.
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phactor9
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: Re: mounting Video Camera's |
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I usually lurk, and I really, really enjoy everyone's posts. I had a Twinstar 22 years ago and my next will be a Firefly (hopefully within a year or so).
About cam mounts... here's an idea. Notice the telescoping boom:
http://wimp.com/parahawkingnepal/
Watch (at) 2:46 mins and see how he collapses all 4 locks, then extends all but the last, smallest tube back out.
At $89.99, this might be my first cam when I start back flying:
http://www.tachyoninc.com/ops.php
What cams does everyone use? I'd like to research them.
Phil H.
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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You could certainly do so. With my intercom there is a spot for a mike cable to go out, but I don't have anything to say that I couldn't add later.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
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ghaley(at)wt.net
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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That's a cool video...
Thanks for posting it.
G
--- phactor9(at)yahoo.com wrote:
From: "phactor9" <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: mounting Video Camera's
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:32:03 -0700
I usually lurk, and I really, really enjoy everyone's posts. I had a Twinstar 22 years ago and my next will be a Firefly (hopefully within a year or so).
About cam mounts... here's an idea. Notice the telescoping boom:
http://wimp.com/parahawkingnepal/
Watch (at) 2:46 mins and see how he collapses all 4 locks, then extends all but the last, smallest tube back out.
At $89.99, this might be my first cam when I start back flying:
http://www.tachyoninc.com/ops.php
What cams does everyone use? I'd like to research them.
Phil H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345319#345319
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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As I mentioned before the hard part is to stop the harmonic wave of the camera. That is why the mount that I showed you was sandwiched with two layers of foam. The mount needs to be firm, but not rigid. The telescope mount would work fine if there was no engine. However with any of our engines churning away there is plenty of vibration to go around. You will notice as Thom throttles down the harmonics really show up. Also to get any clarity of the area that you are flying over the camera has to be outside.
I am currently using a Tachyon XC and will most likely try their HD Model of the same size soon. The reason for the HD change is easily understandable looking at any of the recent video's that I have posted.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
[quote] ---
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:00 pm Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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I never expected the harmonic wave effect because all my previous iPhone videos (hand-held) have been at relatively constant cruise rpm. Once I get the mount where I like it I'll tend to the harmonics with damping foam. I have not yet tried the HD capability on the iPhone camera but will after I get the more fundamental issues resolved.
I have no plans of doing an external mount because I have other in-flight usage plans for the iPhone.
Experimenting with this video stuff is almost(but not quite) as much fun as the flying itself. Since I only fly solo this is the only way I can share/bore others with some semblance of the experience.
Thom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 4:25 PM, "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] As I mentioned before the hard part is to stop the harmonic wave of the camera. That is why the mount that I showed you was sandwiched with two layers of foam. The mount needs to be firm, but not rigid. The telescope mount would work fine if there was no engine. However with any of our engines churning away there is plenty of vibration to go around. You will notice as Thom throttles down the harmonics really show up. Also to get any clarity of the area that you are flying over the camera has to be outside.
I am currently using a Tachyon XC and will most likely try their HD Model of the same size soon. The reason for the HD change is easily understandable looking at any of the recent video's that I have posted.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
[quote] ---
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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Phil, Somewhere in the archives are pictures of the last mount I made for my Fuji FinePix S1500. There were a lot of opinions that the mount was too stiff or too loose, but image stabilization built into the camera made it work. The camera is now obsolete, but follow on models have more features and shoot in HD, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZEOa1h_bc
There are so many cheap pocket digital cameras that shoot acceptable video that they can be considered throwaways. As for video formats, there are free programs that can convert to whatever format you wish. I like Super, but it was just the first one I found and it works fairly easy. This was shot with a Nikon pocket camera that shoots in Quicktime. After I put it through Super it loaded up into Movie Maker just fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
Anyway, I'd look for the features you want in the cheapest pocket camera, if you're going to take chances with them, or get a better camera that shoots HD and has image stabilization.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 2:32 PM, phactor9 <phactor9(at)yahoo.com (phactor9(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "phactor9" <phactor9(at)yahoo.com (phactor9(at)yahoo.com)>
I usually lurk, and I really, really enjoy everyone's posts. I had a Twinstar 22 years ago and my next will be a Firefly (hopefully within a year or so).
About cam mounts... here's an idea. Notice the telescoping boom:
http://wimp.com/parahawkingnepal/
Watch (at) 2:46 mins and see how he collapses all 4 locks, then extends all but the last, smallest tube back out.
At $89.99, this might be my first cam when I start back flying:
http://www.tachyoninc.com/ops.php
What cams does everyone use? I'd like to research them.
Phil H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345319#345319
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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Rick,
I have just been looking at those interesting `tuft` tests of the airflow around the Xtra.
The tufts seem to twist towards the vertical as the speed and RPM increases but is it the speed or the prop sucking more air through that causes the change?
Have you tried a similar exercise with the engine OFF.?. That would at least establish if it is the natural airflow or the prop. You just might be able to smooth the flow out with some very careful detail work around the pod (Fit VG`s ????) but if it is the prop there doesn`t seem much that can be done.
Cheers
Pat
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: mounting Video Camera's |
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Just got done buying a Kodak ZI8 camera on ebay, looking forward to taking some movies of my own. Thanks for the tips.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:48 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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Pat, This may be too simplistic a view, but I think it's a combination of the air not being able to follow the sharp breaks and large angles between the fore and aft panels of the fuselage pod and poor gap sealing of the wings.
Rick
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Pat Ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Rick,
I have just been looking at those interesting `tuft` tests of the airflow around the Xtra.
The tufts seem to twist towards the vertical as the speed and RPM increases but is it the speed or the prop sucking more air through that causes the change?
Have you tried a similar exercise with the engine OFF.?. That would at least establish if it is the natural airflow or the prop. You just might be able to smooth the flow out with some very careful detail work around the pod (Fit VG`s ????) but if it is the prop there doesn`t seem much that can be done.
Cheers
Pat
.
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get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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The type of foam that you use is still a bit of trial and error thing. I had a bit of wobble yesterday with the large washer that I used for the top, so I cut an alum. plate to give it more stability. I had trouble with it rotating on its own yesterday, so I firmed it up a bit. On my flight yesterday, the video was bouncing all over. I changed it to just one piece of foam on the top of the windscreen and took off this morning for another test. I had it firmed up pretty good, and it was doing a jig on the take off. I found that if I loosened it up it would settle down. I did this video with it fairly loose.
http://vimeo.com/26204167
It is a remake of a flight that I took much earlier with a much inferior camera. I have a Tachyon HD camera that is due out then coming the end of the month. Cost is $139.00 for the camera.
It did OK, but I had to keep watch on it to make sure that it didn't turn to the side. I have now put a piece of soft foam on the top with the alum plate. It should absorb the vibration now.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
[quote] ---
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:34 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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Excellent video, Larry.
The only place around here we can fly safely that low is over Lake Erie or Ontario. Anywhere else and abrupt end to flight is a definite possibility unless you really know the specific area.
Thom
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] The type of foam that you use is still a bit of trial and error thing. I had a bit of wobble yesterday with the large washer that I used for the top, so I cut an alum. plate to give it more stability. I had trouble with it rotating on its own yesterday, so I firmed it up a bit. On my flight yesterday, the video was bouncing all over. I changed it to just one piece of foam on the top of the windscreen and took off this morning for another test. I had it firmed up pretty good, and it was doing a jig on the take off. I found that if I loosened it up it would settle down. I did this video with it fairly loose.
http://vimeo.com/26204167
It is a remake of a flight that I took much earlier with a much inferior camera. I have a Tachyon HD camera that is due out then coming the end of the month. Cost is $139.00 for the camera.
It did OK, but I had to keep watch on it to make sure that it didn't turn to the side. I have now put a piece of soft foam on the top with the alum plate. It should absorb the vibration now.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
[quote] ---
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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I like it. Just enough of the kolb nose for reference to give a feeling of reality.BB
do not archive.
On 9, Jul 2011, at 3:07 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
[quote]The type of foam that you use is still a bit of trial and error thing. I had a bit of wobble yesterday with the large washer that I used for the top, so I cut an alum. plate to give it more stability. I had trouble with it rotating on its own yesterday, so I firmed it up a bit. On my flight yesterday, the video was bouncing all over. I changed it to just one piece of foam on the top of the windscreen and took off this morning for another test. I had it firmed up pretty good, and it was doing a jig on the take off. I found that if I loosened it up it would settle down. I did this video with it fairly loose.
http://vimeo.com/26204167
It is a remake of a flight that I took much earlier with a much inferior camera. I have a Tachyon HD camera that is due out then coming the end of the month. Cost is $139.00 for the camera.
It did OK, but I had to keep watch on it to make sure that it didn't turn to the side. I have now put a piece of soft foam on the top with the alum plate. It should absorb the vibration now.
Larry
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russkinne(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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Great Video, Larry. Obviously a good, small, camera. Mount seems to work fine too.
Russ
On Jul 9, 2011, at 3:37 PM, robert bean wrote:
[quote]I like it. Just enough of the kolb nose for reference to give a feeling of reality.BB
do not archive.
On 9, Jul 2011, at 3:07 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
[quote]The type of foam that you use is still a bit of trial and error thing. I had a bit of wobble yesterday with the large washer that I used for the top, so I cut an alum. plate to give it more stability. I had trouble with it rotating on its own yesterday, so I firmed it up a bit. On my flight yesterday, the video was bouncing all over. I changed it to just one piece of foam on the top of the windscreen and took off this morning for another test. I had it firmed up pretty good, and it was doing a jig on the take off. I found that if I loosened it up it would settle down. I did this video with it fairly loose.
http://vimeo.com/26204167
It is a remake of a flight that I took much earlier with a much inferior camera. I have a Tachyon HD camera that is due out then coming the end of the month. Cost is $139.00 for the camera.
It did OK, but I had to keep watch on it to make sure that it didn't turn to the side. I have now put a piece of soft foam on the top with the alum plate. It should absorb the vibration now.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
[quote]---
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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OK, final test today. Yesterday I flew with the stiff foam under the camera. If I screwed it down tight enough to not move around, then I had shake from the motor. So today I used a soft piece of foam about 1 inch to 1 1/2 thick under the top mount with a alum backing plate, and the stiff stuff against my windscreen on the underneath side. I also compressed it enough to firm it up, and half way through the flight, I screwed it down even tighter.
[img]cid:8FE90B414B6147A0BE49F884D3C800E8(at)larryPC[/img]
Much better all the way around. See for yourself.
http://vimeo.com/26234130
There has always been mention of how stiff the ailerons are on Kolbs, and they are. However we must not forget that the Kolb is a rudder airplane. The turns were possible only when I was using the rudder, and by leading the turn with the rudder, the ailerons were not noticeably stiff. At least I wasn't aware of them being a problem. Ground speed was mid 60's
In case anyone is interested, this camera is for sale with everything except the screw in adjustable mount. I will need it for the HD camera. $100.00
Larry
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russkinne(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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LarryYou've obviously licked the mount problems. But you have a strong magenta cast in earth/road/some brush. I don't know these cameras. Is there any adjustment on the camera?
Wonder how the new one will do?
Fair winds,
Russ
On Jul 10, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | OK, final test today. Yesterday I flew with the stiff foam under the camera. If I screwed it down tight enough to not move around, then I had shake from the motor. So today I used a soft piece of foam about 1 inch to 1 1/2 thick under the top mount with a alum backing plate, and the stiff stuff against my windscreen on the underneath side. I also compressed it enough to firm it up, and half way through the flight, I screwed it down even tighter.
<IMG_2603.JPG>
Much better all the way around. See for yourself.
http://vimeo.com/26234130
There has always been mention of how stiff the ailerons are on Kolbs, and they are. However we must not forget that the Kolb is a rudder airplane. The turns were possible only when I was using the rudder, and by leading the turn with the rudder, the ailerons were not noticeably stiff. At least I wasn't aware of them being a problem. Ground speed was mid 60's
In case anyone is interested, this camera is for sale with everything except the screw in adjustable mount. I will need it for the HD camera. $100.00
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: mounting Video Camera's |
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No, there is no adjustment, it is possibly because it was early in the morning. I wouldn't fly that way at any other time, except perhaps late evening, and the wind generally blows pretty enthusiastically here. As for the new one, I will have to let you know. I suppose to a large extent, it will depend on how much you pay for the camera. These are not very expensive and as Rick said, best described as "throwaways"
Larry
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