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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:45 am Post subject: Gear

Paul 

I built my 601 with the gear flat side forward. The CG was o.k. normally but with a passenger and light fuel the CG would go to far aft. ( you might check that on your A/C ). CG goes aft as fuel is burned. With a 200 pounder in the right seat I would have to land with about 14 gal. of fuel to stay in range.  I also did not like having to get over 50 mph before lifting the nose. The nose would also slam down with the CG forward ( full fuel ). I turned it around and it made all the difference in the world. I can hold the nose off on landing, raise it on T.O. and let the plane fly itself off when it gets ready. The CG is also better - I can not aft load it out of range without going over gross - which I do not do. The prototype photos in our kit showed the gear flat side forward so that is how we installed it on two aircraft. We both have turned them around when doing the "B mod".

much, much better. 



Bobby

120.4 hrs. 

601 "B"

3300 Jab. 



 [quote][b]

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: Gear

Hi Bobby,

     

     I'm confused.Â  I thought the flat side forward moves the wheels     forward.Â  That way the wheels are closer to the CG and raising the     nose should be easier.Â  Did I miss something?

     

     I appreciate your story.Â  Which engine do you have?

     

     Paul

     

     On 7/11/2011 7:42 AM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net) wrote:     [quote]       p { margin: 0; }       Paul         

         I built my 601 with the gear flat side forward. The CG was o.k.         normally but with a passenger and light fuel the CG would go to         far aft. ( you might check that on your A/C ). CG goes aft as         fuel is burned. With a 200 pounder in the right seat I would         have to land with about 14 gal. of fuel to stay in range.Â  I         also did not like having to get over 50 mph before lifting the         nose. The nose would also slam down with the CG forward ( full         fuel ). I turned it around and it made all the difference in the         world. I can hold the nose off on landing, raise it on T.O. and         let the plane fly itself off when it gets ready. The CG is also         better - I can not aft load it out of range without going over         gross - which I do not do. The prototype photos in our kit         showed the gear flat side forward so that is how we installed it         on two aircraft. We both have turned them around when doing the         "B mod".

         much, much better. 

         

         Bobby

         120.4 hrs. 

         601 "B"

         3300 Jab. 

       

        	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     [b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:04 am Post subject: Gear

It also wouldn't change the CG of the aircraft by much at all. It does help  rotate the aircraft for take-off but the actual CG in flight would remain the  same or am I missing something? 

 I had an airplane I did the upgrade to that had a 2 inch spacer on the nose  gear and when I did the weight and balance I checked it with the nose high (with  spacer) weight on the ground and then leveled it and weighed it again for the  true cg and what I found was the 2 inch spacer on the ground shifted the  CG 65 lbs aft but when leveled the 65 lbs shifted forward. But what this  did was allow the pilot to hold the nose off better than I had seen on any 601  yet.  The point is the spacer has no effect after the plane is airborne but  a big effect on the ground.

  

 jeff

  

  

  In a message dated 7/11/2011 2:09:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  psm(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi    Bobby,



I'm confused.  I thought the flat side forward moves the    wheels forward.  That way the wheels are closer to the CG and raising the    nose should be easier.  Did I miss something?



I appreciate your    story.  Which engine do you have?



Paul



On 7/11/2011 7:42    AM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net) wrote:     	  Quote: 	
		       p { margin: 0; }      Paul 

I      built my 601 with the gear flat side forward. The CG was o.k. normally but      with a passenger and light fuel the CG would go to far aft. ( you might      check that on your A/C ). CG goes aft as fuel is burned. With a 200 pounder      in the right seat I would have to land with about 14 gal. of fuel to stay in      range.  I also did not like having to get over 50 mph before lifting      the nose. The nose would also slam down with the CG forward ( full fuel ). I      turned it around and it made all the difference in the world. I can hold the      nose off on landing, raise it on T.O. and let the plane fly itself off when      it gets ready. The CG is also better - I can not aft load it out of range      without going over gross - which I do not do. The prototype photos in our      kit showed the gear flat side forward so that is how we installed it on two      aircraft. We both have turned them around when doing the "B mod".

much,      much better. 



Bobby

120.4 hrs. 

601 "B"

3300 Jab. 



 	  Quote: 	
		  

	




 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: Gear

What you describe hear is nearly exactly what I experienced except I originally had my main gear installed with the flat side forward and then turned it around flat side aft. Putting the flat side aft moves the main wheel assemblies (tires, tubes, wheels, brakes and axles) about 4 1/2 inches further forward and the CG of the 40 lb main spring about 2 inches forward. This puts the mains closer to the aircraft's CG so it requires less elevator force to rotate for takeoff and less force to hold the nose off during landing.



I think maybe you misstated this?



On Jul 11, 2011, at 10:42 AM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Paul 

 I built my 601 with the gear flat side forward. The CG was o.k. normally but with a passenger and light fuel the CG would go to far aft. ( you might check that on your A/C ). CG goes aft as fuel is burned. With a 200 pounder in the right seat I would have to land with about 14 gal. of fuel to stay in range.  I also did not like having to get over 50 mph before lifting the nose. The nose would also slam down with the CG forward ( full fuel ). I turned it around and it made all the difference in the world. I can hold the nose off on landing, raise it on T.O. and let the plane fly itself off when it gets ready. The CG is also better - I can not aft load it out of range without going over gross - which I do not do. The prototype photos in our kit showed the gear flat side forward so that is how we installed it on two aircraft. We both have turned them around when doing the "B mod".

 much, much better. 

 

 Bobby

 120.4 hrs. 

 601 "B"

 3300 Jab.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: Gear

I'm really having a hard time with this.

I think the issue in my mind is whether or not the spring is bent at 90 

degree angle to the edge.  That would put the wheels closer to the flat 

side than the angled side.  On the other hand, if the bend is made at an 

angle (to the center line of the spring) then it would all depend on 

what the angle was.

Paul

On 7/11/2011 5:08 PM, Bryan Martin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 What you describe hear is nearly exactly what I experienced except I originally had my main gear installed with the flat side forward and then turned it around flat side aft. Putting the flat side aft moves the main wheel assemblies (tires, tubes, wheels, brakes and axles) about 4 1/2 inches further forward and the CG of the 40 lb main spring about 2 inches forward. This puts the mains closer to the aircraft's CG so it requires less elevator force to rotate for takeoff and less force to hold the nose off during landing.

 I think maybe you misstated this?

 On Jul 11, 2011, at 10:42 AM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net wrote:

> Paul

> I built my 601 with the gear flat side forward. The CG was o.k. normally but with a passenger and light fuel the CG would go to far aft. ( you might check that on your A/C ). CG goes aft as fuel is burned. With a 200 pounder in the right seat I would have to land with about 14 gal. of fuel to stay in range.  I also did not like having to get over 50 mph before lifting the nose. The nose would also slam down with the CG forward ( full fuel ). I turned it around and it made all the difference in the world. I can hold the nose off on landing, raise it on T.O. and let the plane fly itself off when it gets ready. The CG is also better - I can not aft load it out of range without going over gross - which I do not do. The prototype photos in our kit showed the gear flat side forward so that is how we installed it on two aircraft. We both have turned them around when doing the "B mod".

> much, much better.

>

> Bobby

> 120.4 hrs.

> 601 "B"

> 3300 Jab.

>

zodiac601

Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 7

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Gear

I'm not sure what angle you are referring to... when looking at the gear from the wing tip, the axle is nearer the straight (flat) edge of the gear. If you flip the gear around, the axle moves forward as stated above.

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: Gear

I think that is consistent with my understanding of the whole "Flat 

side" question.  However, it seems several posters are saying they moved 

from the "Flat side forward" to reverse the position to "Flat side aft" 

and got the results of moving the wheels forward.



I wonder if there is more than one interpretation of the meaning of what 

the "Flat side" is . . .



Paul



On 7/11/2011 7:24 PM, zodiac601 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm not sure what angle you are referring to... when looking at the gear from the wing tip, the axle is nearer the straight (flat) edge of the gear. If you flip the gear around, the axle moves forward as stated above.

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject: Gear

As you can see the "flat part is aft in the original design so if you  reverse the gear the flat side would be forward and the wheels move forward  also.

                   

  



  

  In a message dated 7/11/2011 11:14:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  psm(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>



I    think that is consistent with my understanding of the whole "Flat 

side"    question.  However, it seems several posters are saying they moved    

from the "Flat side forward" to reverse the position to "Flat side aft"    

and got the results of moving the wheels forward.



I wonder if there    is more than one interpretation of the meaning of what 

the "Flat side" is    . . .



Paul



On 7/11/2011 7:24 PM, zodiac601 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm    not sure what angle you are referring to... when looking at the gear from the    wing tip, the axle is nearer the straight (flat) edge of the gear. If you flip    the gear around, the axle moves forward as stated  se the  ies  ay                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS               - List Contribution Web Site  p;

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psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: Gear

BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: Gear

Paul,

My gear was installed with the flat side to the rear at first.  ( old man's disease ) Anyway I moved the wheels forward roughly 6" by turning it around. I weigh 185 lbs. all up flying weight and the nose does not come up when I enter the plane. My drawings say to install it flat side forward but the picture in my kit shows it aft. 

I am glad i changed it. 



Bobby 

3300 Jabiru 

601 "B"

120 hrs. 



Do Not Archive 



 [quote][b]

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: Gear

Hi Bobby,



Thanks for the message.  That is the way I installed my gear to begin with.



I think this is all just proof that each model airplane flies a bit 

differently from all the rest.  The Tecnam I was flying had the main 

gear very close to the CG, and that allowed rotation early on takeoff 

and holding off the nose on landing until the plane was just about stopped.



The Zodiac XL is more nose heavy on the main gear.  I think this means 

you need to get it going faster on the runway before lifting the nose.  

Perhaps you  can take off at the same pitch attitude as you get rolling 

on all three wheels.  So, it takes more runway to take off.  This is not 

a big deal since even twice as much runway means about 600 feet instead 

of 300.  I don't think there is any public airport that would be too 

short for a Zodiac and it was never meant as a bush plane.



Paul

On 7/12/2011 12:09 PM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Paul,

 My gear was installed with the flat side to the rear at first.  ( old 

 man's disease ) Anyway I moved the wheels forward roughly 6" by 

 turning it around. I weigh 185 lbs. all up flying weight and the nose 

 does not come up when I enter the plane. My drawings say to install it 

 flat side forward but the picture in my kit shows it aft.

 I am glad i changed it.



 Bobby

 3300 Jabiru

 601 "B"

 120 hrs.

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