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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:45 am Post subject: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 07/11/11 |
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i had asked kolb the same question years ago and was answered,,,," if you
can pull the handle, at any speed,, even up to vne,,, it is ok to fly at
that speed with
the flaps deployed.
ie if you can pull the handle at 80 it is ok. there was an
airworthiness directive / email sent out that asked if the flap handle
attachment to the torque tube had a gusset on it. and i dont remember all
the details... but if there were no gusset, the above was not true.
that said,,, my white arc ends at 60
at least that is the way i remember things.. if anyone has any different
information, i will apologize to the list. for my wild ramblings.
boyd young
mkiii utah
I enjoy a few hours of Pitch hitter training in a C-180 last week. The
Instructor said not to engage the first notch of flaps above 80kts. That got
me wondering, what air speed do Mark III flyers slow down to before you
deploy your flaps?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
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Mike Welch
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 07/11/11 |
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| Quote: | ie if you can pull the handle at 80 it is ok. there was an
airworthiness directive / email sent out that asked if the flap handle
attachment to the torque tube had a gusset on it. and i dont remember all
the details... but if there were no gusset, the above was not true.
that said,,, my white arc ends at 60
at least that is the way i remember things.. if anyone has any different
information, i will apologize to the list. for my wild ramblings.
boyd young
mkiii utah
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Kolb guys,
Flap deployment, from my experience, is usually done when one is interested in slowing down,
most of the time on their way to landing. Maybe there are other times, but I can't think of any
right now (and we're NOT talking about 'taking off!!) I suppose you could pull in some flaps if
you just wanted to cruise around, flying as slow as you can. In any event....you don't pull in
flaps at 75+ (in a Kolb), at least I know I won't!
I would think 60-65mph is fairly generous for your flap deployment speed. I would think considering
the MkIII's flying/landing speeds, most guys would be using 50-55mph for 10 degrees.
Maybe we could have someone who has a MkIII share with us their entire V speed ranges (i.e.
rotation speed, climb out, typical cruise, 10 deg flap deployment, approach, over the fence, etc, etc)
I would be interested in knowing what they do on a routine basis.
Plus, knowing these specific numbers can help me put on the correct colors on my airspeed indicator.
Mike Welch
[quote][b]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 07/11/11 |
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Maybe we could have someone who has a MkIII share with us their entire V
speed ranges (i.e.
rotation speed, climb out, typical cruise, 10 deg flap deployment, approach,
over the fence, etc, etc)
I would be interested in knowing what they do on a routine basis.
Plus, knowing these specific numbers can help me put on the correct colors
on my airspeed indicator.
Mike Welch
I have an original MKIII, SN: M3-011, first flown 15 March 1992.
My MKIII has 20 and 40 degrees of flaps.
Normally, I never use flaps for takeoff, unless I am operating off very
short, soft, rough, high weeds and grass, terrain.
Normally, I don't land without full flaps (40 degrees). The exception is
when I am dealing with high wind and turbulence, especially in a cross wind
condition.
Surprisingly, the MKIII does not fall out of the sky if full flaps are used.
However, the decent rate at slow speeds will be dramatic, much the same as a
normal rotary wing approach. The secret to flying the MKIII, with and
without flaps, is "fly the airplane at all times."
My MKIII generally flies about 40 mph, when it is ready to fly in a clean
configuration. I can get it off the ground at 30 mph by popping the flaps
to full flaps when the ASI needle is swinging through 30 mph.
Usually, my MKIII breaks and stalls with full flaps, in ground effect, as
the needle is swing through 30 mph.
I don't have any V numbers except stall and VNE (100 mph). I generally keep
the airspeed at above 40 mph indicated except short final. Normal
approaches are flown at 50 to 60 mph.
60 to 70 mph for full flap deployment speed sounds about right. I have
deployed them at 80 and above to get slowed down and lose altitude in a
hurry. An example would be flying over scattered and broken clouds, when
suddenly it looks like I am about to get trapped on top and have to get back
down through a small hole before it closes up, instead of turning around and
retracing my flight path and waste time and fuel.
60 mph is a good maneuver speed, usually what ever is comfortable when the
air gets "really" rough.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 07/11/11 |
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<<rotation speed, climb out, typical cruise, 10 deg flap deployment, approach, over the fence, etc, etc)>>
Hi there,
here goes. Lined up, one notch of flap...
Rotation. Around 40mph I would guess. I really have little idea, You open the throttle slowly, push the stick forward to raise the tail, kick her straight to correct for torque and by the time the throttle is half open the damn thing leaps into the air.You certainly don`t have time to look at the instruments. Push throttle to `Fully open`and...
Climb. Then you find yourself heading for the sky at 60 mph. Ease the stick back until the speed drops to around 50/55. If you have a vario fitted you will be going up at beteen 8/ 10 knots. Flaps up at around 500/600 feet
Level off around 1000 ft. throttle back to 65 ish and trim out.
Cruise at that speed. Maybe 70 or 75 if you are going places.. Trim to suit.
Landing. Join circuit around 600 ft. Fly around 60 mph. unless you you are setting up a long downwind leg when you can keep your speed up a bit so that you are not a nuisance to faster a/c. Turn finals, speed back to 50, drop one stage flap. Maintain 50 with the stick. If you are overshooting drop in second stage flap or throttle back. If you are undershooting, a bit more power.
You have the field made. Close the throttle. Careful to maintain speed as the nose will come up a bit because of the high thrust line,. Ease the stick back and fly at around 45mph over the hedge. Flare as the speed drops and hold the nose up until she plops down on three points at around 35 mph.
Those are the speeds ,roughly, that my ASI shows but I suspect it is a liar by around 5 mph depending on her mood.
That is all a council of perfection at a `proper` airport. Because I learned to fly in gliders `circuit patterns` are considered a bit `posh` as are ASI `s and altimeters. I remember on about my 3 or 4th flight the instructor threw his gloves across the instruments and said `You don`t need those. Look out of the cockpit and listen to the wind`. Consequently my landings tend to be of the `turn left at the big oak tree` variety, and my farm strip with only half a dozen planes allows me to get away with it.
Consequently you can give my comments as much weight as you think appropriate.
Cheers
Pat
[quote][b]
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